<small>[ October 09, 2003, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Need-Advice ]</small>

I can relate to your situation in that my wife seems to be in the same situation as you are now. She is having an affair and believes him to be her soul mate. She tells me that she married me due to expectations, family, and that it just seemed like the logical step. We were 17 when we met and have been together for 12 years. She feels like she has not lived her life. She is in the process of leaving me too. She has not said this, but I have seen it in her eyes, heard it in her voice, and felt it in my gut that that is exactly what she is going to do.
Being in you H shoes I feel compelled to urge you to try and find in him what you have found in OM. I am not sure what you have tried already, but I do know that there are many things people can do to restore lost love in a relationship. Does your H know the seriousness of the situation now? Has he been given a real chance or are you deciding all this all on your own. He deserves to know before you make your final decision...to be given a chance. I know you feel hopeless that there is anything that he could do or that you could do to love him again, but I have read countless stories about people who feel exactly as you do and DO manage to find thos feelings again if they WANT to. The key here is...DO YOU WANT TO LOVE YOUR H? It is not about whether it is possible..it is. It is not about loss of hope...there is. It is not about there not being anything left to try...most likely there is. It all comes down to whether you WANT to or not. DO you?
You have an opportunity to re-connect with your H on a level that you have never felt before. Similar to the level you have connected to OM, but built on a different foundation. You will not feel the same passion as you do with OM. That is impossible due to the time you have been with your H. What you can do, if you WANT to, is connect with your H on a level that is only possible with two people who have been together as long as you have. I urge you to try this before giving up on him. Look for the good in you M and identify what it is that is missing. Try to remain open to the possibility that those things that are missing could be found if you WANT to find them. Ou mind is very powerful. It is amazing what we can do if we set our minds to it. Our counselor told us something that made good sense to me. I asked her "when is it too late?" Her reply was "As soon as one of you says it is too late." The interesting thing is that she went on to say that the opposite is true also "If neither of you decides it is to late...then it is not too late. It is up to you." If you are interested in looking for ways to try I will help you locate some of the ones I have found. I beg you to keep an open mind and be sure that you see your M through until the end before pressuring yourself into a decision that you might truly regret later...after you have already burned your bridge to you M.
On a selfish note...would you be willing to give me some insight from you point of view, which you share with my wife? Maybe we can help each other and find what everyone really wants...To find what you want where you are. Not to have to start looking again.

Need-Advice -
If every day is a living hell have you thought about anti-depressants? When I started taking them it really helped. It enabled me to think more clearly. You are at a crossroad now and have 2 young ones whose happiness depends on you making the best decision you can. Sounds like you are still basing thoughts on other peoples reactions. Time to take care of you. Is there any kind of women's support group you can join?
Do some reading on this board. You will discover that your marriage can recover. Also take your time and get your needs met, but not through your lover. That is just a quick fix and you will (later on) still have a hole in your soul. Believe me, I've been there.

You are comparing your marriage (with responsibilies for children, mortgage, etc) to a fantasy escape relationship. Very very unfair to your husband. Can you, in your mind, imagine if the two lives were reversed, and your husband were the one you escaped responsibility to play with? What if your "lover" were the one you had to argue with over whose turn it was to get up at 3am with a vomiting child? Do you see my point? You are comparing apples with oranges--there never is a complete trade-off. If you give up your marriage to marry your affair partner, he then BECOMES your husband and enters the marriage world and becomes YOUR HUSBAND--get it? You are in love with having an affair. I am not saying your feelings of love for the other man are not real, but they do not exist in a real world, and once they do they may become amazingly similar to the feelings you now have for your current husband.
My husband once developed feelings for someone else. At that time, his feelings for me took a backseat because running around with someone having sex on the sly is fun, more fun than being husband and father if you are in shallow, selfish mode. Today, he is deeply ashamed of his affair and has no affectionate or sexual feelings for his ex-partner at all.
In his words, I am his lifemate and he loves me deeply and passionately. Feelings can and do change. Marriage is supposed to be forever. Love is a decision that you make, and takes work to keep alive.
You deceive yourself if you think marriage with your affair partner will continue to feel like an affair. You would be trading one husband for another. Your need for cheap thrills would remain to be dealt with.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: want2shine ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Need-Advice:
He is under the impression that it has ended.

This means thaty you lied during marriage therapy. Interesting.....

The past 6 months have been so very difficult for both of us. I love him completely and do not want to lose him; I feel so comfortable and feel as though he is my soul mate.

Then, make a choice.

But, I understand that he deserves more than he is getting, as does my husband. There is NO HOPE that I will feel the way a wife should feel for her husband. He is a good caring person who should have an opportunity of a passionate love with someone who will return that love.

Then make a choice.

but now all I feel is lost and alone without my lover.

Then, make a choice.

I am truly happy with him and love him deeply and passionately. I have no one to talk to and I&#8217;m desperately seeking help. I feel my family will abandon me for being so thoughtless --- engaging in a relationship outside my marriage with two small children sounds so incredibly selfish and I fear they will take that view.

It doesn't sound so incredibly selfish it actually IS so incredibly selfish. Most people take that view, because it is true.

I don't know what to do, should I sacrifice my one chance at happiness and stay married for the kids?

Make a choice. What would you advise your child to do? Are you aware of the fact that you are providing a role model for your children .... is the role you are playing one you want your children to follow? Why or why not?

Everyday is pure hell and the only reason I go on is for my kids. Together my husband and I have tried marriage consoling

But, it was false counseling, because you were holding a very vital secret from your husband. You have become a skilled liar and cheat. Everyone loses.

and I&#8217;ve seen a therapist myself. I don&#8217;t see my marriage lasting forever, but I&#8217;m still torn in two directions and fear things might be too late to experience happiness.

Why don't you go back into therapy and deal with things truthfully this time?

Is there anyone who has been in my situation or a similar one that can share their experience?

Susan, a long time MB poster has been in your situation.... you could start a new thread and ask for her..... You better be open to making a choice, because what you are currently doing is dishonest, immoral, and hurts everyone ..... you self-esteem will suffer more as time goes by .... because it's impossible to build self-esteem when you are doing things you do not think are "right".

Take care ..... what are you doing with any spiritual or moral beliefs you hold? How do you quiet your conscience? What do you tell yourself that makes this "OK"????

Pep
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Have you considered that you may be idealizing the OM? I ask you this because you have not really lived with him and seen his shortcomings (we all have them my dear). I know that you are probably going to think I am nuts but most OM's are sexual predators who want nothing but 'the fruit of another' and once they have their fill will dump the married women and move on to their next victims. Why don't you ask him how he is going to support you and your children? Afterall if he truly does love you then he should be thrilled with the idea of becoming a stepfather, shouldn't he? But my gut feeling is that he is not going to be very thrilled in taking on the responsibility of another man's kids as his own. Ask yourself 'If the OM is willing to help in destroy a marriage and a family, what is there to stop him from doing the same thing in the future?'. I've seen too many women such as yourself who later find out that they were wrong and wanted to reconcile with their ex-H's (my ex-W is one example) but found out that it was too little too late. Don't let the same thing that happened to these women happen to you.

On another thread ..... someone made this analogy:

Your spouse is the package of your life .... the OP is a bow on that package. Pretty and fun to have, but not needed, just a nice surprise.

Are you willing to get rid of the package, and just keep the bow?

Pep

The more you deal with reality the more lucid your thinking will be.

From my perspective (married to a man who pretend everything he says and does is never his fault - his choice):

What I picked up on most from your letter is that you are failing to take responsibility for YOUR CHOICES in life.

Most affairs and/or midlife crises (not saying that's what you're going through but it's worth considering) share some common elements, including believing you just married the wrong person and have NOW met your 'soul mate', too late...

So why don't you try reading up on affairs (if you haven't done so already) because you will learn that what you are assuming is some special once in a lifetime love is most likely just your run of the mill cheating. I've even read that fooling around can actually change your body chemistry in a way that makes you less loving and committed to your spouse - less tolerant of and interested in them (not sure I understand or believe that though - I think it could just be simple justification and unfair comparisons) Your justifications may sound adequate and logical to you, in the midst of the lust and excitement of an affair, but I assure you they look pretty lame to outside observers (not trying to be insulting -sincerely sorry if I'm being too blunt). Believe it or not the wonderful feelings you have for your lover and ho-hum feelings for your husband would be reversed if you'd met your lover first.

But sometimes there are betraying spouses with an unusually high tendency to ALWAYS blame somebody else for ALL their choices. They didn't really want to marry who they married, they were expected to somehow... they didn't really choose to have an affair, it just happened or it's even their spouse's fault. If you TRULY believe you are for some reason incapable of deciding what you really want to choose without caving to what others expect, then you should get professional help with that before making ANY more decisions - ESPECIALLY whether or not to break up a marriage involving children! My guess is if you do divorce, someday soon you'll be claiming the divorce wasn't your idea either - that your lover expected or needed you to do it (actually you've already started to hint at that haven't you?) so of course the damage done to your husband and children is not in any way YOUR fault...

This might sound wierd but you can choose what to base your decisions on. You alone were responsible for choosing to make your decisions based on what you thought others expected. Maybe you made decisions that way because it was easier for you, you wanted to avoid conflict, you cared too much about others' approval. Or maybe you just felt like choosing that at the time but want to be able to pretend later (when you change your mind) that it wasn't really your choose. Like the song lyric says: if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. I think whatever method of decision-making you employed you are still responsible for your own choices and should honor any committments you've made - no excuses.
The problems in your marriage are not anything major and (IMO) it would be immoral (I know you didn't ask for our opinions about morality - sorry) to break up your marriage for what appears to be simply selfish desire and feelings. You probably will find this amazingly hard to believe but the truth is you probably could develop very strong feelings of love and desire for your current husband. There are proven methods for saving even some pretty horrible marriages. The truth is as long as you are having the affair you are ensuring you will not feel loving towards your husband. What you are assuming can't be remedied and using as an excuse for an affair is actually caused or at least made worse by the affair.

Are you absolutely sure it's not that you just want to change your mind as your feelings change or you get bored, you don't want to honor committments made or to work at a relationship, or you want to avoid feeling guilt so you have made blaming others for your choices a habit? (again sorry if this is too blunt) My husband has a severe problem with never taking responsibility for anything he says or does - pretending he is ALWAYS at cause and never at effect. Do you also have a problem with being confronted with any consequences of your choices? Or are they always somebody else's fault too? Does it upset or anger you if somebody confronts you with the consequences of your choices? I think you should be brutally honest with yourself and if this is what you are doing, really choosing whatever YOU want at the mooment but then pretending it's wasn't really your choice or fault, then you should stop making all decisions until you get professional help with learning to take responsibility AND facing any results of your choices. (sorry if this is too blunt and I admit I may be bitter since my husband is trying some of the same excuses as you to justify and ease his guilt - wreaking severe havoc in others' lives and becoming furious that we won't hide our pain and pretend everything's OK so he won't feel any guilt.)

I'm truly sorry if I sound too judgemental but believe it or not I am not just thinking of your husband and children. My husband has never been as unhappy as he is now. And believe me he was absolutely sure he was doing the right thing and that it would somehow be possible to pull off breaking up our family with everyone accepting, and him feeling no guilt. But he's made an awful mess of all our lives, including his and his lover's. At times he's threatened suicide and cries a lot. Yesterday he told me he's given up all hope of ever being happy again. Don't make the mistake of assuming the positive feelings you have from the affair will continue once everything is exposed. Affairs are fun... for a while. That part is ending now for you because your lover has already started to pressure you to leave your husband. And plese don't fall into the habit of serial adultery - ending this affair so you won't have to break up your marriage but then 'falling' in love with yet another lover to recapture the thrill and romance. You need to learn how to create that sort of excitement INSIDE your marriage. It IS possible and you owe it to yourself, your husband, and your chidlren to extend every effort to learn how to do that. IMO (again - sorry to be so blunt and judgemental, blame it on my having been so hurt by my husband's affairs) it's lazy to just have affairs instead of building a rewarding marriage. It may seem easier or even more natural to just do whatever you feel instead of working at a relationship. And some people even think there's no harm if you don't get caught. But there's a better and more honorable way to find have love.

Need-Advice,

My one and ONLY piece of advice is to QUIT LYING TO YOURSELF. Pure and simple the problem you are having in your marriage and in your life is that you are LYING TO YOURSELF.

Permit me to illustrate with a few examples from your post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel so comfortable and feel as though he is my soul mate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet, you say this is a long distance romance, which means that with your family commitments, and the need to keep this secret from your H that YOU have no idea who this man really is. You are comfortable with the fantasy of this relationship.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never lived my life; </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The H**l you didn't. You are lying to yourself. You may dream of living a different life but you have lifed exactly the life you wanted. YOu have married twice, you have two children, and those were your choices. You MIGHT argue with me if you married ONCE or had ONE child, but Young Lady you are lying to yourself.

You have had choices and you made them. It is time you faced that. You have also chosen to lie to your H, and break your marriage vows.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have absolutely no doubts about a life with my lover. He is no longer content being the other man, and is at his breaking point. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really, so this person is going to stop you from lying, from having something missing in your life? Is it because he knows what lies to tell you? Is it because you believe he is an honorable man? He is NOT an honorable man, and you know it. And when you start to treat him as you clearly treat your H, he will cheat on you. You need to stop lying to yourself about that.

Interestingly, the man that you denigrate, your H, has hung with you even through your A. He has trusted you with his life and happiness, and yet you would prefer a man with no respect for marriage. You are lying to yourself again. Or you are a complete fool. You darned well should have doubts about OM. You have no idea what type of father he would make, I am presuming that as you tear your H's heart out, you would also want to take the kids with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Wake up, your problems are internal neither this man nor any other is going to fix what is broken in you by having sex with you or lying to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Together my husband and I have tried marriage consoling and I’ve seen a therapist myself.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You didn't try marriage counseling. You are lying again. You went to cover you butt. You had no intention of working on your marriage or you would have revealed your affair. Yet another lie to justify your actions.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He is under the impression that it has ended. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of all the lies you have told, this is the worst. You basically removed any chance your H had to make you happy and to work on the marriage with this lie.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I stayed in my marriage because I was afraid to break up the family and I fear the impact of divorce for my children who are completely unaware of any problems. I have become an amazing actress, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This isn't a lie. It is an illustration that you do and did have control of your life. You are making your choices on what "I" want, what "I" fear, and you have consciously become an actress to get what YOU want. You are not living your life for anyone else, you are doing all of this for you. I repeat this is the life YOU CHOSE.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">should I sacrifice my one chance at happiness and stay married for the kids? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet another lie to justify your choices. You have more than one chance at happiness and by the way in a normal life people find many things that make them happy. I can think of at least three scenario's that would offer you a chance at happiness, and the one most correct for your situation is to seek this happiness with your H AFTER YOU ARE FINALLY HONEST WITH HIM.

LIES, have you gotten the idea that most of your troubles start with the lies you tell yourself. Stop that. Get honest with yourself, then get honest with your H, and if he still wants you, get honest with your counselors.

Time to wake up Need-Advice. You are living the life you chose.

I do hope you think about this.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

so much common sense and down to earth advice has been offered here. are you listening or looking for reasons not to solve your problem?

what seems to happen to people that dwell on their negative situation instead of acting on it is that they tend to become polarized in the moment...feeling worse and worse and less and less able to mobilise themselves to take the neededaction. and the longer you go on obsessing about the situation the harder it gets to make any decisive move to change that situation. it really gets crumby! not a good place to be.

one last thing you should know. after reading your posts, i like others are getting the impression that you never have accepted responsability for your own life. i just don't know why you believe a 3rd relationship is going to be the answere to your problems...if you haven't been able to make the first 2 work why would the 3rd be any better?

coach

I am very curious to hear your response to all of the responses you have gotten. I think we all are. We are all hurting because our WS are doing to us what you are doing to your H. You might be deciding to go to OM, but you have an opportunity to help all of understand more. Oh..how we would love to understand. What are you thinking? If you don't mind.

Hi 'Need Advice',

I hope you read this and have the courage to respond. Please understand we are all in such deep pain because of our spouses doing to us what you are doing. Forgive us our bluntness and please help us try to understand your perspective (how we might possibly reach our mates in a way that they can understand).

Today my husband told our 15 year old daughter that he is 'torn' between his girlfriend and his family. She had tears streaming down her face as she responded, 'then you must not love me very much if it's so hard for you to decide', hung up on him, and ran to her room (and I am crying now as I type this). In the current fog of your selfishness, irresponsibility, lust, justifications, and yes - lies that you're telling yourself and others, you can't even to begin to imagine the pain you will be causing your dear family, AND YOURSELF, if you don't end your affair ASAP. Unlike my husband you have the opportunity to stop before it gets to the point of your family being ripped apart, your children finding out. I assure you it will be all downhill from here. My husband has this silly book called something like "Mom's House - Dad's House" and he honestly believed everything would be OK. He was confident his kids would easily accept his affair and his lover; he's even tried to force me to take responsibility to MAKE them do so - telling me I have to tell our children 'their feelings are WRONG"! Our children are devastated. I have one daughter who may end up hospitalized because she goes for weeks without going out in public, and sometimes won't bathe for days on end. She quit skating which was her passion (she was such a beautiful, graceful skater) shortly after her father moved out. She has refused to have anything to do with her father for over a year and a half. Our youngest daughter has threatened to kill herself and says her life 'sucks'. Needless to say we are going to family counseling (which BTW my husband doesn't want to participate in because he doesn't want to be 'blamed' for the kids' problems - he just wants THEM to go to get fixed - as in accept his affair so he won't feel guilt)

Recently I heard on the radio this saying:
Sin will make you stray farther than you thought you would stray.
Sin will make you stay longer than you thought you would stay.
Sin will make you pay more than you thought you would pay.
(Sorry about the use of the word 'sin' - honestly trying to help you avoid immense and needless pain - not just being judgemental.)

You have the opportunity to stop it before it's too late. Don't stray any farther, don't stay any longer, and you can avoid having to pay so much in tears and heartache (yours and your family's) in the long run. You claim to be doing this because you want happiness for yourself. Learn from others' mistakes: you WILL NOT ultimately find anything but pain if you continue on your current path. SO MUCH has been written about affairs and about how to make a marriage as fun and rewarding as you want it to be. You're pretty much past the fun part and are headed smack dab into the pain and paying part. Don't be a fool. Stop now and you will never have to see those tears streaming down your child's face because you are 'torn' between your lover and your family.

Lest you think we are all coming down on you pretty hard I want you to know I at least applaud your courage for posting here. I think you did so because a part of you knows you should stop the affair - that it's wrong. I wish my husband would have come to a site like this instead of just buying a book to try to con his kids into being 'OK' about his adultery and desire to divorce. I wish somebody would have told my husband what we are telling you. If only he had posted a 'torn between my lover and my family' message HERE, before he broke up our family, instead of breaking our daughter's heart today by telling HER he was 'torn between his girlfriend and his family'.

As I said in my previous post, my husband is in immense emotional pain too - a total mess. Believe it or not, we who are responding to you care about you too, not just your husband and children. You say you want happiness, we want you to find that too - INSIDE your marriage. It IS possible and you deserve THAT kind of happiness - minus all the horrible guilt you will surely find if you proceed.

Make a decision right now to choose to do the right thing. And do it without lying to yourself that the ONLY reason you will choose to end your affair and save your marriage is because it's 'expected' of you. YOU know it's the right thing to do, YOU want to protect the ones you love, YOU deserve the credit for choosing the right path, and YOU will be so proud of yourself.

Need-Advise...
What happened to you???

To all who have replied I do respect both your positive and negative comments. Everyone&#8217;s experiences and views are different with this type of matter. It&#8217;s so hard to put all one&#8217;s emotions, thoughts and feelings into a few words. It&#8217;s also so hard to summaries one&#8217;s whole life up to now in the same amount of words. See, for my whole life I truly believed that something was WRONG with me for never be able to fall in love. I lived the life I thought others wanted me too though I had too. I tried for so long so many different things and searched so hard for information to fall in love with my husband. My husband and I are basically no more than roommates, he wants more of me but I&#8217;m not willing to give him more. I don&#8217;t want to work on the marriage, and it seems that I use my kids as an excuse for not doing family things; this one needs to go here that one needs to go there, if we do family things it&#8217;s the extended family (mine). I will do all I can do not to be alone with him, this all came about 5 years ago. My problem is this I truly love my other partner with all my heart and soul, but I haven&#8217;t gained the strength to separate my children from their father. I have absolutely no doubts about a life with my other partner (for me and my kids). I guess in some way I do live in a fantasy world hoping that one day I&#8217;ll get a revelation to change things for us. Either that or maybe my husband will get tired of waiting for me and want to end the marriage. I know where I want to be but don&#8217;t know how to get there. My life seems to have meaning now for both me and my kids but I&#8217;m still very confused. Thank you all for your commits and please keep them coming. Right now all I feel is lost, alone, and torn in two different directions. Maybe with your help I&#8217;ll be able to see the light and fix things one way or another.

Need-Advice (desperately)

You will continue to feel lost and confused because there is no lasting peace on the road you have chosen to travel. Your behavior is destructive to all concerned. I pray that you will get out of the fog and face reality. Your H, whom you vowed before God and man to be his lawfully wedded spouse, can be the man you desire if you let him.

This OM obviously is using you. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. You are his concubine, to be blunt and real.

Please give serious thought to turning your heart toward your H and kids and reclaim your M. If you choose to devote the time to your M that you are wasting on this adultery, your M can be a success.

I say these words out of loving concern and tough love. You are traveling down a road to disaster.