My past posting tell my story, so I am not going to rehash it all now. I just want to discuss what my wife has suggested we do now.
She would like 1 month of zero contact with me so that she can sort out her feelings on her own. Okay..that makes sense to me. The only problem is that she wants to be able to see/talk/do anything she wants with him. I am supposed to sit at home hoping that she comes back to me while she is off building a relationship with him. Should I stand for this? Is there any middle ground that you all might suggest that she might consider? My first reaction is to say...if no contact with me...no contact with him too. She says that that needs to be her decision. She wants to be calling all the shots. What should I do? What chance does she have of appreciating what we have while he is in the picture whispering sweet nothings into her ear?

Neb,

Let go back to the basic ...

What did you contribute to this mess in your M ? ... i.e. what did she say before the d-day and she repeated so many time and become excuses now to have A ?.

Plan A is not letting your WW does what ever she want and you are suppose to be quite about it.

-rh-

She would like 1 month of zero contact with me so that she can sort out her feelings on her own.
This is so she can have 100% contact with om and not have you "meddling" in her business.

Is there any middle ground that you all might suggest that she might consider?
She is only going to consider what she wants, not us or even you. An affair is complete selfishness.

What should I do?
You tell her you do not want to do this. Be nice, be kind, but don't simply agree with everything.
read the links below.

when she suggested this to you was she negotiating? i mean can you say no. what it sounds like to me is she is using Plan B to have her cake and it too!

she is a real piece of work your W (and please know, i say this with this is greatest of respect...i mean she could work for me anytime!)

the thing is though what she wants is a one month vacation from marriage! gets to be a single girl again! great. and best of all she gets to keep you on a string...just in case she needs you again...for any reason...a meal ticket, car loan...a place to live...some spending money...and oh yes! in case she decides to do you the huge favor of loving you again? i think not.

this doesn't sound to be a good plan to me. she has all the initiative and you are just reacting. if you don't begin take control of your life then she will own it month by month by month until there will be no you left for yourself.

this is not the way.
coach

I agree with you that this is not the way. I don't feel like she is capable of giving me up yet. She is trying to push me away to make it easier on herself. If I were to end the M she would say ok and it would have been because I chose it..not her. What a joke!
I know I need to take some control and make a stand. Actually, I feel like it would really help her to make a decision as well. We are currently corresponding via email and she has begun to make more references to us getting back together, where as in the recent history she has said that it is impossible and there is no hope for that. I feel like the timing my be right to make a move...if given an ultimatum I feel more confident now that she might choose me. The problem is...she loves to have sex with this guy and also she feels whole when she is with him. She won't want to give that up, but she doesn't seem to want to give me up either. She even suggested that maybe she is an addict (not really to drugs mind you...an addict to OM). How can I best play my cards? Any suggestions? Thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Neb:
<strong>I feel like the timing my be right to make a move...if given an ultimatum I feel more confident now that she might choose me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What make you think that ? ... Going back home means going back to the old M that prone to A and she has unresolved issues w/ you !. Have you resolve that ?.

This is a 3 seat 'coaster ride (could be 4 if OM is M) ... up and down ... wait until she is up w/ OM, she will withdraw again from you. You love me you love me not ... playing petal of the day !.

Where is your plan A ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

-rh-

I guess I am not too good at the Plan A/Plan B stuff yet. I will read it all over again and try to re-direct myself.
The reason I feel like an ulimatum would work is that we have had such good communication lately. We have identified what problems there were and also found some things we could do to fix them...things we have never tried before. I think she finally acknowledges that and might be giving her a glimmer of hope that she did not have before.
You are completely right...If she spends time with him, she will go away from me again and back to him. The ultamatum would be designed that she would not see him again and we would continue to re-connect. I don't know it that is possible, but I am sure it is more possible now than after a weekend with OM. The more time she's with me, the closer we get. The more time she is with hi, the closer they get. When do I play my card? It seems like now might be that time. What do you think? If you want more info I can give it.

The reason I feel like an ulimatum would work
Let's say you give an ultimatum.
-Come back now or I dovorce you.
She says, "no".
Are you ready follow through with the divorce?

is that we have had such good communication lately. We have identified what problems there were and also found some things we could do to fix them...things we have never tried before. I think she finally acknowledges that and might be giving her a glimmer of hope that she did not have before.
But if you give an ultimatum and don't follow through (saying you will do something and then not), why should she believe that any positive changes you have made will stick?

If she spends time with him, she will go away from me again and back to him.
But if she spends time with him, she will see he farts when he watches tv, leaves the top off the toothpaste and doesn't pick up his underwear. In other words, all the "newneass" wears off. He's "normal" and not as great as he seemed at first.

BUT, you guys DO have a history together. And you are the one willing at work at everything.

Plan A/B are to give you time to work on you and your relationship habits as well as giving time for their relationship to fall apart. And it will fall apart. Hopefully before you decide to not stick around.

I just add one more thing .... if you are not giving ultimatum and not working on M (plan A/B) you will depleted your LB$ and walk away with plan Dv.

She will bring you up and down emotionally, please focus on something else than her ...

-rh-

Maybe I need to explain my idea of my ultimatum is now. I am not expecting her to come back to me right now. I respect her need for space and time to decide. The hard part is accepting that she will be spending time with him. It is extremely difficult for me to accept and I am not sure I can. Maybe ultimatum is not the right word to use. Maybe it should be a choice. I do not think I can go on respecting her if she is with him. I need to respect the one I love. Therefore, if she choosed to be with him, she is actually choosing not to be with me, because I will not be able to be there after that. Do you see what I am getting at. For me...being with him now is a deal breaker..out of necessity for my own sanity. So maybe I should just present her with that choice. I know she needs time to see all his faults, but I am not capable of giving her that opportunity. Her wanting to go see him is putting me in a VERY difficult situation, as you all can understand.

Neb,

From the get go you always says about her ... what you want her to do ... etc. I understood you very well I had been there. I try to understand her position what you had contaminated your M with. I try to understand how she walk away from this M and choose A. ExitA, MLC, Philanderer ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . I try to see what you have done so far ...

In short what damage had you cause in M and what repairing has you done lately ?

-rh-

"In short what damage had you cause in M and what repairing has you done lately ?"

The truth is...our M has been very good. I have been the model H. I am not just saying that. The problem is this: Years ago the fire faded (for her) in our romantic relationship. I have come to learn that that is totally normal in any long-term relationship. The man is more capable of keeping it than the woman. Correct me if I am wrong. Not to say that the woman can not keep it going, but there needs to be more effort in order to keep it going for a woman. My W and I wrote it off as normal or that "that is just how she is". She lost sexual drive. We didn't know what to do and so we did nothing. I had no idea of the extent of how much she had lost it...the truth is she didn't either until it was awakened recently by OM. In short: We did not take necessary steps to keep our romantic connection in place. That is what we/I did wrong, or rather what I regret. Now, we have identified this is normal and that there are things we have never done that we should have been doing all along. The idea that it could be possible to feel that romantic connection again seemed hopeless and no longer does (especially to me, but she is coming around). As far as repairing...We have not had a chance yet, but at least now we see ways that we could if she decides to try. That is what is different. Does this make any sense?

These seem to be two primary problems with out M.
1. The first is that he has re-awakened her sex drive.
2. The second is that he makes her feel whole. She said that she feels like he needs her for him to feel whole as well and she wants to be there for him like he is for her.
As for the first one...we have since identified that there are many things we could do and that there is a real possibility that those feeling could come back.
As for the second, it brings me to my question. What is it that makes a person feel whole? Is it feeling needed? I have never been that needy of a H and I think it has made her think that I do not need her. She deffinitely needed me and I am wondering if that mutual need for each other is key in making two people feel "whole" together. Any thoughts? It might just be the key to saving our M. Anybody out there?

Neb,

How many kodak moments (memorable moments) in your M that you could uniquely identify ? Are there many of them ?.

What make people come back ? ... b/c the have a good past memory that they long for or b/c currently they are receiving it or b/c the belive that you could fillin them.

What make a person "whole-some" ? themself only, no one else could. When you know who you are and willing to accept it .... What your WW saying is that OM is fillin her ENs that you have not fillin it ... and those make her feel good. This A will end but don't know about your M.

The key to save your M is right in front of you ... MB. Please print ENq/LBq !. Fillin like she did it for you ... LBs to avoid & ENs to work on.

When does she plan to have N/C with you ?, that is the time to hand the plan B letter to her.

Does OM ready to take her ? emotionally, physically & financially ?

-rh-

I need to run now, but will check later tonight for more responses. I will also answer all the previous questions. For now, I will say that she looked at the LBq and ENq and told me that I rate best on all questions. She keeps telling me that I am a saint and have done everything right. I agree with you that the only person who can make themselves feel whole is themselves. Unfortunately, she doesn't see it that way. I'll continue later...if you want to add anything in the meen time...PLEASE DO.

quote:
She would like 1 month of zero contact with me so that she can sort out her feelings on her own. Okay..that makes sense to me.

Actually, she may be RIGHT. Have you thought of that? You are a big boy, and you will be perfectly ok while you BOTH get some time apart. It might do you more good than her.



The only problem is that she wants to be able to see/talk/do anything she wants with him. I am supposed to sit at home hoping that she comes back to me while she is off building a relationship with him. Should I stand for this? Is there any middle ground that you all might suggest that she might consider? My first reaction is to say...if no contact with me...no contact with him too. She says that that needs to be her decision.

Nobody is MAKING you sit at home hoping. That is entirely your own choice. Might be better to start enjoying life and learning to be a happy productive person with or without her. That will be much more attractive to her.

If she wants to see him, it really is her decision and her decision alone. Just like it is your decision on whether to give an ultimatum or not.

The bottom line here is that you CAN NOT pressure or force or make a person love you or stay with you, and as a matter of fact, the more you pressure them and try to get them to see your point of view, the more they want to get away from you.

My advice..... Tell her that you think it is a good idea to have no contact for a month. Then LEAVE HER
ALONE. While you have a month for yourself, go have fun, enjoy some hobbies, and do some things that you have always wanted to do. Learn to cook, or do your own laundry, or watch sports all day on Sunday
and lay around doing nothing. Whatever it is that will make you feel better about yourself and not mope. Look at it as a positive and not a negative.

It isn't our circumstances in life that make us unhappy , it is our view of them. If you want to change how you feel about things, then change your view.

Tell her that you think it is a good idea to have no contact for a month.
But it's NOT a good idea, especially when she says, "The only problem is that she wants to be able to see/talk/do anything she wants with him."

Yes, she's gonna do what she wants but by agreeing to a no-contact separation with these "conditions", then he is telling her it is acceptable to him that she sees the om. And this is something that should NOT be done under any circumstances.

Word to Chris! I have to agree that it does not feel right to accept WS proposal (Her plan A as in Affair that it).
I feel the need to give a little more background:
OM lives/works 4-5 hours from our home.
WS works weekends 4-5 ours from our home.
OM and WS do not work together. Their work is actually 4 hours from each others work.
They do the same type of work, but in different areas. Therefore, they sometimes help each other out by going to the others area to lend a hand. That is no longer necessary, but it is preferable to them. What I am getting at is this...I am worried about implementing Plan B because I know that they will not experience each other any differently as a result. They will maintain a distant relationship with exciting get togethers. This will keep things exciting and fresh for a long time...in my opinion. Secondly, this necessary separation from our home for her to do her work makes implementing Harley's 5 Extraordinary Precausions even if she does decide to work on things.
She has told me that she will see him next weekend because they share some supplies and he will be bringing them to her. She asked me "what will you do?" I replied by telling her to try and put herself in my shoes and see things from my perspective and to tell me what she would do. The fact is, I have an idea of what I will do. I am thinking of telling her that that is her making a choice and if she goes fwd with it, that she will have to pack up and move out of our house, that I will be informing everyone (including his collegues and friends) of what is going on. It is kind of a power play, but I don't feel they deserve to have this as a secret while I am home suffering. As far as kicking her out...it is me trying to put for her into perspective what she is really giving up. I don't think she is willing to give everything up. Just me for the time being. She asked me what I will do and I will need to tell her soon. Any suggestions/insights. One last thing...did I mention OM has two other girlfiends. My W is F'ed in the head for sure!

And he is 16 years her senior!!!

Neb,

One word ... PLAN B . She tries to negotiate and you let her know it is not acceptable w/o LB.

Why ? 1. You LB$ will go kaput if you see her make her choice and continuing this way. 2. Let OM fillin all her needs, he is not ready or not capable to take her yet.

This way if she would go w/ OM she has nowhere to fall back ... by negotiating or threaten her it won't work. Put PBL on her hand if she makes that choice. She will think about the letter when she see him.

-rh-
-rh-