I posted this over on GQ II, but thought others on the Plan A/Plan B board might have already had to deal with this or were going through it too.

I am a week into Plan B and going crazy. I did some snooping right before WH and I separated and found out my H had purchased an airline ticket (OW lives in another state). He initiated the separation, saying he needed time alone to figure out what he wanted. I figured it was as good a time as any to go into Plan B. Our MC and I asked him not to see OW during separation (as MC put it: b/c then you wouldn't be alone).

The week before we separated we had a previously scheduled vacation that we went on. We had a wonderful time, with my H thanking me for making it so great. He said he knew it could have been miserable and it left him with good memories of me and helped him to remember why he married me.

The few days before I left he admitted the OW was calling him at work everyday. He said on at least two different occasions (once on the day I left) that he didn’t have any plans to see her. However, the day I left is the day I found out he had bought an airline ticket a few days earlier.

We also had a couple discussions pre-S where I asked him not to bring her to our apt if he saw her. I explained how there was no way I could ever sleep in our bed knowing they had been together in it (his response: we can get another bed). I went on that it wasn’t just the bed, it was all the furniture, memories connected to them that would be ruined for me. I told him I was just being honest when I said I didn’t think I could ever live there again with him if he brought her there. He said he understood.

So here’s why I’m going crazy and feel sick to my stomach. I know he bought an airline ticket through CheapTickets. I know he had a trip labeled New York 10/8/03 in his CheapTickets folder, but the particulars were deleted. I know he took today off work. I also know he wasn’t in his office for the majority of yesterday (yes, I was calling his direct line to check). Finally, I know that he answered our home phone last night at 11:30pm (I hung up). Me thinks there are too many coincidences here.

Now I know everyone’s going to tell me I shouldn’t be doing all this checking up and snooping while I’m in Plan B, that I should be concentrating on me. Unfortunately, I found out about the ticket before I left and have been like a dog with a bone ever since. There are two things that are eating me up (besides the obvious one of him seeing her again). One, that he lied to my face on more than one occasion about already having plans to see her. The second is that he ignored everything I said about how strongly I felt about him not bringing her to our home (I even put it in my Plan B letter), and he did it anyway.

A part of me is dying to call him and just ask him why he would do this. He fed me so much crap before we separated asking me not to give up hope, to keep believing in us, and how he was already missing me and so on and so on. I am feeling so incredibly down and hopeless because I had told myself that if he brought her to our home, that would be it because it would really show me how little my feelings mean to him.

Sorry to go on and on, but does anyone understand how I’m feeling about this, or am I making a mountain out of a molehill???

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: trying32 ]</small>

No your anxiety is nothing new in these cases. You contacting him and asking him how he could do this is going to get you NO WHERE. You won't be heard. He is too deep into his fog right now to comprehend anything about YOUR grief & pain. Basically it will be like taking to a wall. Besides there is NOTHING that he will say that will take your pain away. He has done it, it hurts like HELL, now you have to take care of YOU, since he is taking care of HIM. Stick to PLAN B with NO CONTACT. GO VERY DARK.

<small>[ October 10, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</small>

Trying - Yeah you're right, I'm going to tell you Plan B means no contact. I've been in it for 2 weeks and feel much better already. Although have been tempted, won't contact H. Checked his bank account on line and he is over $500. overdrawn. Sure would like to know what that's all about. But I am continuing on NC. Don't waste time fretting about one more betrayal. He has to know you mean it, or you will be right back to the same crap. Work on your issues, I've been getting organized, taking care of myself, etc. Hang in there, Plan B is tough but so worth it.

Just thought I'd let you know, I know exactly how you feel about the OW being in "YOUR HOME!" Just last night, my WH allowed OW and her children, into "MY HOUSE!" They stayed for hours, made a mess of the kitchen and when I showed up this morning, found my daughter's toys strewn about the house.

WH knows I do not want her in my house, and to make matters worse, while she was there, WH continued to call me (I was at Sis in laws) on the phone. It was almost like he was rubbing my face in it!!!

Today, WH had a IC appt, and I drove with him, and when we returned to "OUR HOUSE," I didn't even know where to sit. My mind was going nuts, wondering, "which chair did the OW sit on? which glass did she drink from?" I think a lot of people would think me to be over-reacting (WH included), but it makes me sick!!!

Of course, my WH tells me the alternative would be for them to go to OW's place. Well, I KNOW what would happen there, so I'm not so sure which is worse.

Just thought I'd let you know, I definately know where you're coming from here!!!

Mother of Pearl

MOP: Send him. What will happen there is that he will experience reality. Toxic to affairs, reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He fed me so much crap before we separated asking me not to give up hope, to keep believing in us, and how he was already missing me and so on and so on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I DON'T get this. Mine has said those EXACT words. And I am recalling something that lbc's WS said--something like "It would be a shame if we gave up now."

Do you all hear this? They are asking us to just TAKE IT while they are off doing their thing with the OW.

I will give you some advice, and then I am going to read it myself in hopes that I take my own advice.

Plan B means go dark. He is going to do what he is going to do. You already know that he has little regard for your feelings right now. He's in a fog. Every time I obsess about things, I tell myself that there is "nothing happening now that hasn't happenend in the past." It helps sometimes.

The house thing really stinks. But it shows you what a sick puppy he is. You'll have to cross that bridge when you come to it. I know I felt that way in my WH's car. But that's different than a house. Who knows? Maybe you can move, repaint the whole place, or better yet, make him paint and redecorate it all! And that bed? I bet there is a gorgeous four poster bed with a pillow top mattress you've just been longing for!

Go dark. Do things you've always wanted to do. Try not to obsess and above all, no detective work! I know that's hard when you've probably been doing it so long!

And if you have anxiety, there are some great anti-anxiety meds out there. I used them a few times during the first week. I would take a quarter or half a tablet and it would be just enough to take the edge off. That stuff gets better quickly.

Go dark.

(I've said that more than once in hopes that I read it!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

{{{trying32}}}

I can feel your pain. WS has taken the OM to many of our favorite places, including several restaurants that I have often taken her for our wedding anniversary. I CAN'T IMAGINE TAKING HER TO ANY OF THOSE PLACES AGAIN. Talk about being in a fog, can they really be so totally clueless??

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: auto009988 ]</small>

johnh39
Thank you for the little reminder. It's so hard to stay focused sometimes, and remember that chances are, when given the opportunity, the A will grow old.

MOP

Just remember when you reach recovery this can also include 'reclaiming' those places and triggers which violated your M. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So don't make those places and triggers taboo for life.

L.

You know, Orchid, you're right! I am remembering how I did that after his FIRST A! There were some hurtful things I learned about--where she had been on MY turf.
We actually, in one instance, rather ceremoniously reclaimed one place as "ours." It stopped being a trigger.
Trying, you've gotta stop focusing on what he's doing. You're missing the point of Plan B. You can mop up the mess later. You've gotta survive for now.
(Once, again, I need to re-read my own post!)

Do I wish I had waited to hear from all of you!!! The sad thing is I knew in my head what you all were saying - I need to stop the detective work, he's going to do what he's going to do no matter what, I need to stop focusing on him and focus on me. I knew all that and yet I did something really stupid. I ended up contacting OWH on Saturday to find out if she was out of town (he said she was at her parents). I don't know why I called him since I never wanted to talk to him or OW. I actually felt disgusted with myself for doing it after I got off the phone. Of course, OW let my H know and I got this email Sunday from my H.

****

Trying-

No contact of any kind means no contact of any kind. That includes calling and hanging up to keep appraised my whereabouts. It also includes, in my mind, calling Mr. X to find the whereabouts of Mrs. X. Needless to say I was not at all happy to hear that you'd contacted them. If I hear that you've done that again, I'll file for divorce immediately. It's a violation of their privacy and I find it more than a little obsessive, particularly when you won't speak to me when you call to check up on me.

Up until this email I've honored your request for no contact of any kind. I now ask that you grant me the same courtesy. I'll speak to you on December 1st unless you give me cause to file for divorce before that date.

For your information and perhaps your peace of mind, Mrs. X and I had agreed to cease all further contact with each other. We still plan on honoring that arrangement despite yesterday's unpleasant conversation.

I hope you'll honor my request for no contact of any kind between now and December 1st. I will not speak with you should you call and I will not respond to further emails.

I've tried to make this email civil, but you should know that I'm very upset. This burned much of the good will that was created between us in the last two weeks we were together. I spent much of yesterday afternoon, last night, and this morning deciding how to respond to you without flying off the handle. I hope I've accomplished that. Now back to no contact of any kind.

Mr. Trying

****

I was blown away by this email. My first instinct was to defend myself, but I decided there was no point. I felt alot of emotions after reading this: fear (did I blow it?), doubt (so were they together this past weekend or not?), anger at myself for making the phone call in the first place (felt this before I got H's email), and anger at H for alot of reasons (coming to her defense so strongly, talking about violating her privacy when he's so clearly already violated mine with everything he's told her about me, threatening me with D if I make another phone call after everything he's done, and his comment about burning much of the good will that was created between us).

Why am I held to such a higher standard? Since Dday, I have not once gotten into a screaming match with him, I haven't called him any names or gone on a rant about how could he do this to us, and I haven't resorted to namecalling of the OW. I have tried to handle myself with dignity and remember that my goal was to rebuild my M. I knew acting out on my every emotion wouldn't help, so I tried to keep myself in check and not LB. Well, I guess it all finally became too much, I cracked and I got a little crazy.

Anyway, I would really like opinions on whether or not I seriously blew this. I've read other posts where the WS says they were thinking of reconciling until the BS did something to make them change their mind. I don't know, I'm feeling very dejected right now.

He probably did end it, go very black, do not respond, work on you. Remember, you can't control others, only yourself. Pull way back, men chase when you pull away. You have to pull away. Do something for you-can you go away? Even a weekend. I am so sorry.

Thanks for your response NJ. Like I said, my first instinct was to defend myself, try to explain to him. I was going to call, then thought no, he'd probably hang up on me and I'd feel worse. Then I was going to reply through email, then decided anything I wrote (if he read it and didn't just delete it) he would only take as excuses. So, I figured it was best to let it go and not respond at all.

He has admitted to making bad decisions, but yet apparently I'm not allowed to. For the last four months he has called me a saint countless times for sticking around and going through all this. I've tried to tell him I'm not a saint, I'm only doing what I need to do to save my M.

I will go very dark. Maybe this episode will fade in his mind over time?

Trying, your H sounds very much in the Fog. Especially with his threats to divorce you if you do anything else as far as contact OW or her H. I understand your need to redeem yourself in his eyes and explain your side of things. But like i said before HE WON'T GET IT! He doesn't WANT to get it. U MUST GO DARK. By contacting OW or her H then you are not going dark. It may feel good at the moment but always makes you regret it when you get the mean reaction like you got from your WS. The only thing that did was make YOU MORE UPSET and start the questioning all over again. PLAN B is PLAN B. If he wants to act smug and pretend NC means nothing to him, then show him what it really means! GO VERY DARK!

trying32
I'm still in Plan A, but my situation is of another kind. My SIL, who before husband's A, was extremely close to H, has been acting out. She's so hurt and angry by the way he's handling this, that she has done some things to H and OW (they all work at same place), that has made H very upset. What's worse, is H has a hard time believing that I'm not involved in any of this activity at all. (major LB) My SIL doesn't understand my Plan A, I beg and plead to her not to interfere, that it is only making matters worse for me. She thinks that I'm blind to what he's doing and just accomodating him. If you check out my thread on General ?/ "H is so angry w/his family, he doesn't trust me," you'll see what she's done.

Anyway, after the last fiasco between SIL and OW, H called me on OW's cell phone and started ranting and raving about the episode, which I knew nothing about. He was putting on a show in front of OW by saying "you and I are done, because you and sister can't mind your own business." Of course, last night, when we were having a sober and calm conversation, he admitted that he did not mean what he said about us being done, but that it does not help my cause at all each time SIL does something.

Today, I'm sending an email to SIL to explain to her the importance of just staying out of it. I have to explain to her that I'm trying to show H the way back home, and while I understand her anger and pain, her actions are going to blow any chance I have with H.

I understand your desire to send the email. There's so many times I would love to do something to OW's car, or leave her a note, etc... But, I know that would only push H towards her. So, I just remember what Plan A is all about, and try to go on.

Hopefully, if your WS is sincere about N/C with either of you, it will give him the time to think about YOU. I don't know much about Plan B, yet, but from what the other posters have said, it sounds like you'll be o.k., if you heed his warning and continue to lay low. If he can pull himself out, he may be able to understand why you did what you did, and be able to forgive you. After all, you're willing to forgive him for what he's doing to you, correct? Maybe a little time will help him see that.

Trying, forget about it, dont think you have done anything wrong one moment longer.

I know your supposed to go underground in Plan B, but we are human, we do make mistakes.

I loved the threat of divorce part, my WW, made many, if I dont say anything to the family she will stay, If I dont say anything at my place of work she will stay, if I dont contact her place of work she will stay, guess what, NOTHING stopped her affair, she still moved out and yes, I did call everyone I knew to let them know and now I get the, if you didnt do any of that I would have stayed, kinda a catch 22 these morons put you in.

So, one of her biggies was that I do not speak with the OP's wife any longer, as she knew we both were putting their every move together. I kept his wife very close and to this day, still do.

Long story short, they dont want you speaking with the OP's significant other as it places them in a bind in that you can anticipate their every move, not a good thing if you are sneaking around and doing your damndest to make up a good lie.

Hang in there, do what you have to do, remember you will make mistakes and dont beat up on yourself. I've been in Plan B several months now, even today I broke it after being good for so long, BUT WE ARE HUMAN.

Take care,,,,

Da Rookie

Trying - Plan B will really help you. It's working for me. I'm feeling better every day. In fact I hardly think about them anymore. H called when I was in shower this AM. He left a message that he was coming over to get his mail. His address is already changed, and he has not had mail here for a week. I immediately left house and went shopping, ran errands, etc. When I came home he was gone, but had left pictures of us. Pictures put in groups and labeled. Vacation pictures, good times together. Also he left a box with a master brake cylinder in it. Can't figure that one out, nothing wrong with my car and he never took any interest in it anyway. Maybe he got it for her car - he tends to get us mixed up. So I guess I'll keep the thing. But anyway Plan B is making my life good again.

Thanks everyone for your responses. It makes me feel a little better to be hearing from others who are experiencing similar situations (or have in the past).

Trying - After the mess this past weekend I am feeling like all I will have to do in the future is remind myself of it if I am tempted to contact ANYONE. I can honestly say I do not want to ever talk to OWH again anyway. I didn't need my H to threaten me to make that happen. Anyway, I am determined to stay dark and to stop checking up on him.

MOP - Yes, I am willing to forgive him for his A (assuming of course it stops). I'm hoping you're right and maybe months from now and when OW is hopefully fading a little he will be a little more understanding about what he's put me through. I think that's part of it, he really has no clue just how much he's hurt me.

Rookie - Thank you! Everyone does make mistakes. Something else that got me riled, that he can make bad decisions and have an A and lie to me, but I can't make any mistakes. That's what I was referring to when I said I felt like he was holding me to a higher standard. Four months of this hell and I haven't done the first thing that would be considered slightly crazy and the first time I do he threatens D. Aaarrggghhh......

Believer - I am hoping you are right about Plan B. I'm hoping that by not constantly checking up on my H and trying to track what he's doing that I'll be free of the craziness and be able to focus on me.

Here's a general question for anyone - as past of Plan B, should I be preparing (mentally, emotionally) myself for the end of my M??

trying,

Absolutley prepare yourself for the end.

Contact a attorney, discuss your options, what you obligations are and what his are.

Plan B is a last resort move, doesnt always work and in the event it doesnt you need a plan b of your own, for your protection and your kids.

I see my attorney tonight to go over her proposals for the divorce, other than her asking for my blood, she was very kind as she put it.
I am hoping that my attorney, which I am sure he can, deflate her requests, that helps reality set in, but even if it does, I am in the position that I gave it my all to make this M work, she has done nothing but destroy it and IT IS time to get out of Dodge and start a new life.

I do have to thank her for leaving, in that while in plan b, I went from a social drinker to a non-drinker, lost 30 lbs., developed a new circle of friends, have gone on trips I never would have if she was still here, have developed a new respect for my religous beliefs (not a church goer as I always have and always will believe the biggest hypocrites are the ones that hide behind the bible in their back pocket and let you know it is there)

So out of all of this I guess plan B did work for ME.

Keep the faith trying.

Da Rookie