I'm new here, Dday was last Saturday...he gave the "I love you but not in love with you speech" but didn't confess to his affair till Wednesday, I already knew on Saturday though from the look in his eyes when I asked if he was seeing anyone else, and he confirmed it by staying out late everynight till last night.

He has gone from wanting to completely end our marriage as quickly as possible on Saturday, to looking like he was about to have a panic attack when I told him last night that I was going to make plans to leave in December. Not to start towards a divorce mind you, but as a plan B for me, and more importantly to keep myself from losing it emotionally.

He is obviously confused, I feel he is
begining to have feelings for me again, and last night he actually started talking about our relationship and our future (!!!). I told him that we couldn't do anything till the 2000lb gorilla (his girlfriend) was dealt with and out of our lives for good and he says that he knows, and December is a long time from now.

I am going to Plan A like crazy till December, but I have every intention of leaving if I don't see him making some changes and making some decisions. I've never seen him less happy, he is utterly miserable, I think the only time in his life he's been in a worse state is when his mother died when he was 16. His ulcer is coming back. I know he's having some fun with his OW, but only on some level, he can't stay the night with her, and there is always the guilt when he is with her and the feeling he shouldn't be there. He can't bring himself to end it though...

That is my dilemma, my own personal 2000lb gorilla. The thing that keeps coming and leering at me and pointing and laughing. I know he is miserable. I know that he is torn. I know that the real him, the one under all the chaos, wants to make our marriage work, and despite all he's doing to me and to "us" he still loves me through it all. But he has not even hinted that he is planning on ending his affair. When I tell him I'm making plans to leave in 2 months (and eternity in the state we are in) he looks like I just just punched him in the gut, but he can't bring himself to start making any steps to end things with her.

I know I have to give him time, our marriage before was pretty bad, if we make it through his affair we will have a new load of issues to work through, fixing the problems we've had in the past, and the effect that his affair is going to have on us. I think he knows deep down that any real relationship with his OW is doomed, regardless of whether I leave or stay, If I would have left on Saturday there would have still been no chance, he only has to look in the mirror to see why. But he still won't make any decisions. He's only been in this for 3 weeks though.

I know, today, after telling him what I told him last night, and the peaceful night we had, a night where we talked deeply, and laughed and hugged and felt warm and normal again, that we will be able to fix everything. I just have to hold onto that feeling when the storm hits me tonight, while I sit and wait, wondering if he will come home. It will get worse before it gets better, but I have to hold onto the hope and conviction that we will get through this.

Anyway, that is my gameplan. Plan A like crazy till December, show him that I am changing, and that our old marriage is gone, and we will have a chance for a new and better marriage in the future. Show him in every way I can that I love him and that he can find happiness again in our marriage. If he doesn't end it soon, gradually start telling people we know what is going on. And then, if I see no changes in him, leave and Plan B when the time comes in December. From there it will be up to him. It feels right to me, but if anyone has any input I would love to hear it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I realize I can't see things from the outside so I'm sure I'm missing something.

Why do people do it though? I don't mean what he's doing to me and our marriage, I mean what he's doing to himself. How can what he's getting from this OW be so important that he's willing to feel utterly miserable and risk his health to get it? I'm usually pretty good at understanding him, but I just can't understand how he can torment himself in this way.

I think the most likely thing that will happen is his OW will end this. How can she enjoy being with him in his current state? She doesn't have years of history with him, and I can't imagine why she would want him the way he is now, I certainly don't lol but I know that's not who he is. And I know that she resents that he won't stay the night with her.

Anyway, I'm just rambling, I know this will all get much worse before it gets better, but I thought this would be a good time to post here, before I start feeling the anxiety again. I have to stick to my plans and find solace in knowing that I'm at least taking control of my life, and that no matter what happens I still have a life and future.

Sio - Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. My H was torn and kept telling me he would get rid of OW. I threw him out. Now he is with her. Just because you can still talk about things, I think there is hope. Keep reading here. Lots of experts, they will help you.

Thanks Believer, I'm trying my best to Plan A. He's here tonight, came home right after work and did last night as well (he confessed the night before last). I don't want to take that as a good sign. Honestly, I'm more confused about it then happy.

We talked some more tonight, although I should have just left it alone I think. He said though that he and she have talked about things, and that they could both deal with it if they broke up and they both stayed working in the same place. Obviously that won't work, and he said to me that he knows he'll have to find another job, but at least their attachment to each other isn't so strong that they can't talk about things like that to each other. (The reason he said he'd have to leave the job though was NOT because of how it would affect our marriage, but was he thought he might get fired sometime down the road if they kept seeing each other, or if they broke up he was concerned she would do something to sabotage his job).

The thing is, and why I'm setting December as a kind of deadline, is I don't know many people around here, everyone I know is through my husband, we moved here after he got out of the Army and everyone here are his friends and family. Aside from this site and an occasional phone call I don't have any support at all in this. I wasn't that happy in our marriage either, I just have to look at my EN's questionaire to see some glaring problems that I didn't see before. I guess what I'm saying is, unless I see some radical changes in him, I have a hard time believing I'll be able to endure this beyond 2 months. Maybe I will, but I have to give myself some kind of light at the end of the tunnel, if that makes any sense.

It's not just the affair, It's also that I failed badly in the marriage and I know even if there wasn't an affair he might very well want to end it. The affair of course compounds the problem, since until he ends it, all I can do is show him I'm changing. I also think he is doing it in some ways to get back at me, and that he feels pretty justified in what he's doing. I know that's not true, wanting to leave me because I wasn't meeting his needs is appropriate, having an affair is squarely on his shoulders, but the two issues compound each other.

You don't think 2 months is a long enough time though to plan A? I've heard some say 3 to 6 weeks, I thought that was a pretty reasonable time frame. Minute to minute I guess.

My speciality is strategy.

First - tell everyone about the A. Bring it into the open. A's thrive on secrecy and come under pressure when exposed. H will be angry. State your position that you believe the M. can be saved and want to work on it but he must give up the OW. Don't say anything else or get into an argument.

Second - start Plan A. In your case 180 is also vital. You need to build a new life (activities and friends) for your own sake and to show WH that you are an interesting and attractive person. This both attracts H back and rebuilds your self esteem. Political campaigns offer a whole new range of social contacts and are a possible option.

Third - the December deadline is an untried but interesting tactic. Usually the n/c tactic (the start of plan B) comes as a surprise to the WS but yours is a viable alternative approach.

I would like to add one more item that is a MUST
Your H should not simply talk about getting a new job to get away form the OP, he HAS to leave or she does, otherwise you are spinning you wheels.

As long as she is around him it is NOT going to end, been there done that, my W didnt get a new job and now she is gone.

Thanks for the responses, Lovesaved you are absolutely right I absolutely must get a life of my own going, more for my sake then the marriage even. I have way to much time to sit and think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I've done amazingly badly this weekend, he has an ulcer and it's really been flaring up the last couple of days, and I've been driving him nuts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

The affair, while awful, isn't the real issue. I think he would want to end it regardless <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . This is mortifying to talk about, but...we've had really bad intimacy problems throughout our marriage, our love life has always been bad. It's not a problem with us as individuals, it's just we've never been able to "click" in that way, ever. I've brought it up many times, but he didn't want to deal with it.

He was willing to take the EN's test tonight, and the LB questionaire, that particular emotional need was of course the big red flag. Everything else, a few little things here and there that we would be able to deal with without much problem, but that...it's of course the biggest problem, and he doesn't think it is something that we can fix <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Honestly, I don't know if it is either. How do you make yourself be sexually attracted to someone? Even if it's someone you love? That's the problem, and why it's so hard, we love each other, we are pretty wonderful together in every other way but that one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

Anyway, I don't know if it can be fixed. Even if it can, I'm not sure he'd be willing to try to fix it (this is something he feels extremely uncomfortable about). I don't think the affair is really a huge issue (it is, but at this point I almost feel like it's trivial). I guess I need to go and see if I can find another site that deals more on intimacy issues (and stay here of course as well). If anyone happens to know of a good site I would love to hear about it (I fear I'm going to have to sift through hours of smutty junk). Or if anyone happens to have any knowledge on this, I would love to hear it. Thanks again for the responses.

Hi there Waffling,

I think you are a shy person and don't like to be too explicit about sexual problems. That's a good trait. I assume that's what you mean by "intimacy issues".

Don't try other websites. Try the Emotional Needs section of MB. It's mostly about sex and covers just about every kind of problem, but not in a voyeuristic way. The Harleys and MB have a track record of rebuilding marriages; others haven't.

As I understand it, but I'm not an expert, some sexual problems have a medical cause and others are a symptom of problems in a relationship rather than the core issue. Look at the EN section of MB. If your personal issue isn't addressed there then contact Cerri, the therapist who works on this site. I'm a Christian and don't usually use this kind of language but she's bloody good.

You won't need to go into more detail than is necessary for understanding of the problem and we're all grown ups here. No-one will be shocked.

Thank you for the good advice and not saying "oh no, there's no WAY you can fix a problem like that!!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I looked at a few other sites, most were useless, Psychologytoday.com had some interesting insights though.

I really need to stop taking every single thing he says, good or bad, seriously at this time. I also need to stop feeling so negative about all of it, he told me about his affair last Wed, and hasn't been to her place since then. He still hasn't said he will never see her again, but he did say he knows he will need to find another job. He has been very moody and depressed, so I kind of wonder if he's decided to end it, and is going through recovery/withdrawal right now, and I should just stay out of his way.

I do know, without any doubt, that we can fix things and have a better marriage then we ever had before. It's just trying to convince him to give it a try when I think a part of him has given up on "us".

If nothing else I've woken up, and am learning more and more everyday. When I wrote that last post I didn't even think about it, because it's cleared up for the most part, but he has an STD, and it's plagued us from the beginning. He just finally got it under control a few months ago, but we haven't made any adjustments in our lives, we've acted the same as we did when he had that problem (it's genital warts). NOT a fun thing to talk about (you're right, I'm quite shy), but I think THAT probably has more to do with our sexual problems then anything else, and despite the icky factor will probably make it easier to handle then if it was something more psychological or emotional.

BTW I know I should have thought about all this early on in our marriage and maybe it was foolish for me to stay married to someone with an STD. However, throughout those years I felt our marriage was worth the risk. I am extremely hurt and angry that now that he has it under control he's having affairs and thinking of ending our marriage, given that I risked my health and future fertility to stay with him through that. I am also shocked that this didn't even come up until yesterday (Sunday). I didn't even think about it, and neither did he. He also didn't tell his "friend" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . On a primal level I'd like nothing more then to see her hurt, but at the same time I know none of what's happening is her fault, sure she may be morally and ethically bankrupt (what kind of person has a relationship with a married person?) but I hate to think that a few years from now if she decides to settle down and start a family her fling with my husband will come back and ruin her life. I'm also not sure if I'm ethically obligated to inform her? Am I? Ugh, what a horrible conversation that would be..."Hi personIdon'tlike, you know how you've been having an affair with my husband (wish you'd stop that!), well, you may have been exposed to genital warts, which can cause infertility and cervical cancer in woman, might want to go get checked out, take care!" *shudder*

How does one go about contacting Cerri? Just make a post with "Cerri please read"?

Hi Sio,

I've placed a message for Cerri where I'm sure she'll see it.

My personal opinion is that you've been incredibly loyal and brave. If H was clear before the A then OW should not be at risk but I lack the medical knowledge to be sure about that.

I'm just glad to have helped.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How does one go about contacting Cerri? Just make a post with "Cerri please read"?

Yes that works.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but it got a little scary for a while there at JFO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I also have a thread at JFO, that you can always find me at.

Ok, I'm gonna read quickly your posts and then I'm going to reply here. But, I rarely get out of JFO and I don't want to forget about you, so if you need me for more questions it would be way cool if you could post to me over there.

I think your strategy to do Plan A until Dec is excellent. But you need to not let him know the details of the plan. So you don't say I'm doing such and such for you. And you don't give ultimatums that say it either ends by this date or I'm gone. You just do it.

Now, do you have Surviving An Affair? You can order it from the bookstore here. Since it was written there are some significant changes to the PlA/PlB concepts, so here are some other things you can read while you are waiting for SAA to arrive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

First, go to my site www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com click on the Articles and Newsletters link and read the March and April 2002 issues, they are dedicated to infidelity and what you need to do to stop an A.

Then go to JFO and read some of my thread there.... I think around pg 40 has some really good PlA info.

If anyone has any good PlA info that I've written in the last six months bookmarked, or knows where to find it, a link here would be fabulous.

Ok.... do the reading, find me at JFO and we'll talk about your personal PlA strategy.

All the best,
C

Uhhhhhh make that March and April 2003 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I need to get out more...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

C

Thank you very much for the responses and advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

A few days have passed since I've posted on this thread and a lot has changed.

He's back to seeing her every night, and he now seems to be coated with some sort of "super armor" which prevents anything I say or do from reaching him. He is stoically set on ending the marriage, and seems to feel he is justified in it.

I am financially dependant on him. I made the mistake of telling him that I was going to call his work and tell them what is going on, and he flipped. I shouldn't have told him, but I'm glad I did because in his present state of mind I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he kicked me out of our apartment.

I realize that once he gets out of the "fog" there might still be some hope, but I think all this is going to lead to PB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I've been asking him to get counseling, but he adamantly refuses, and the only person he is talking to about his affair and his desire to end our marriage is the OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I did send an email to his sister and Dad last night though, and let them know what's going on. If for nothing else they will at least hear my side of things, and when I "disappear" they'll have something to go on besides just his word on the events.

Thank you again for the advice and responses, if/when I can get a copy of those books I will, and if it would be alright with you Cerri I might make a post on JFO for you explaining what's happened up to this point with a little more clarity then the messy posts I have all over the place hehe.

There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls.

Sio.... please... please come over to JFO. You need some very real help on what to do right now. Most of it not easy. Almost all of it feels wrong and is completely counter intuitive. Come to my thread at JFO post whatever you want there and I'll help you all I can. I just don't often think to check this board and I don't want to forget you!!

Also.... go to the links that John (hi John!!) and I gave you and do all the reading. It's far more helpful right now than posting will be.

All the best...

C

Oh Yeah, I forgot: What Are Plan A and Plan B?, by Dr. Harley himself. It is kind of old, and his thinking has evolved some (particularly on the exposure issue), but it is good background.

<small>[ October 22, 2003, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>