Questions about Plan A:

If I don't think I did a very good Plan A (not sure - hadn't read the suggestion yet about needing 4 times as many LB pluses as LB minuses - my guess is I had about equal amount of positive and negative during a 3 month Plan A) should I try Plan A again (only had one day so far of no contact with husband - said a sort of Plan B speech on phone to him few days before that but haven't sent a Plan B letter yet)

I read in one of the messages here that Plan A should be tried 3 or 6 months, depending on whether a wife or husband. Does that mean 3 months if the wayward spouse is the wife, 6 months if the wayward spouse is the husband? Or vice versa? And (curious) why the difference?

We were separated for 1 1/2 years before I tried Plan A, with a restraining order in effect for first year and only saw each other at court after that. He was living with other woman half of Plan A, she broke up with him about once a week for first two months of Plan A and all of last month (he has his own apartment - didn't stay overnight at my home when they broke up), but they are back together now for 6 days. Should I have tried to tough it out for a longer Plan A since we had been apart so long?

Plan A was really hard on me and my daughters - he said and did things which really upset us and not only showed disregard for my feelings (expected) but cruelly said things like "I don't have to listen to this" to daughters too when they tried to share their feelings. When I decided to switch to Plan B daughters had already decided they didn't want to see him anymore. So was I right in assuming that even though Plan A may have been too short, it is better to switch to Plan B than to blow Plan A? It's to protect what love and respect we have left for him before his fog behavior hurts us too deeply, right?

OK, now for some Plan B questions:

I didn't do much really in Plan A to expose his affair and the real reasons why we separated. His family lives in another state and they believed all the lies he told about our break-up. About half a year ago I tried to tell his mother he was having an affair and she didn't believe me - said it was an example of why he left me - ungrounded suspicions (this is his 6th affair). He works about an hour's drive away and I've only met a few of his coworkers a few times. I talked to a couple coworkers a few months ago and they were told same lies he told his family about why we were separated. His coworkers know about affair because she used to work with him. So should I try anything more about exposing?

Should I send a copy of Plan B letter to his family and/or a written explanation of recent developments? I am afraid to send a copy of the Plan B letter to the other woman. I called her the day I found out her phone # and she sent the police to my house. My husband has since used threats of calling the police with false accusations as a way to try to manipulate me.

Sice my daughters don't want to see my husband either, should they send their own version of a Plan B letter to him too? He blames me whenever they are upset with him, even though they have told him repeatedly it's their feelings and I have not 'brainwashed' them. The visitation is 'at the daugthers' disgression' and I don't get involved. So I have told them that if they don't want to talk to him or see him they should have to tell him so, and tell him why - not me. But they balk at doing it. The times they've tried doing that he refused to listen and/or said things that hurt them even more so I understand their hesitancy. But I am worried when they refuse to have contact with him without explaining to him themselves.

You should send him Plan B letter. Leave daughters out of it. Forget about his family - they will continue to believe all his lies. Time to take care of you and your daughters. I've been in Plan B 3 weeks and already feel great. Just getting WS out of my life has been so freeing. I'm sure there are lots of experts here that will give you better answers. Hang in there and do something for yourself.

icedancer,

IMVHO. Draft plan B, get the logistic in place and hand it to him. Forget about sending it to OW. About your kids ... their R with their dad is their own bussines, don't interfere.

4 deposit for each withdrawal ... in SF for instant, if you reject your H for sex one time, you need 4 times to make him forget the incident. 3 months for men, 6 months for women ... all of those are generalization. This is why I always recomend people to get conseling w/ MB if you feel you are hitting your head to the wall. Your situation is not fall into common situation and you need professional conseling to identify and to coach you to go through and survive this A. If you follow MB, your M might not survive A but you will and you will thrive.

Go very dark on plan B. Tell your kids to tell WH to ask you himself if WH is questioning them about you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Reveal very little detail to your kids on you plan.

If you stay put it means you are feeding this (emotional) abuser with yourself and your kids. You have a duty to protect yourself and your kid. Plan B asap (yesterday).

-rh-

Thanks Believer

"You should send him Plan B letter."

I started to write one the other night but the word processor kept locking up and I was getting too upset (both about the computer problem and thinking about him) I told him I would be sending him a letter (with same statement I already gave him on phone) so I guess he probably thinks I must be bluffing since I didn't send it yet? Plus I blew it by still calling him for a few days after that. Not smart I know.

"Leave daughters out of it."

I totally agree. I sent him an e-mail about two months ago in reply to an e-mail from him accusing me of not letting him see them. I told him not to e-mail me anymore about visitation since it was totally up to them and I didn't want to get involved. He tries to involve me so he can blame me if they are hurt or angry when he stands them up. I refuse to be the go-between anymore and this has been working OK. He has their e-mail addresses so he can and does invite them to see him that way too. One daughter said she got an e-mail about Wednesday night but she said she didn't answer. I said maybe she should respond but wouldn't force her and haven't said anything to her about it since. But I still worry he may try to get court involved again with brainwashing accusation.

"Forget about his family - they will continue to believe all his lies."

Actually one sister-in-law revealed not everybody in the family agrees with what he's saying and doing. BUT she says they just keep their mouths shut and stay out of all family discussions about it. So he's under the impression they all are backing him up. In any case, they don't live nearby and we never really had much contact with them anyway - just birthday and Christmas cards and visits several years apart.

"Time to take care of you and your daughters. I've been in Plan B 3 weeks and already feel great. Just getting WS out of my life has been so freeing. I'm sure there are lots of experts here that will give you better answers. Hang in there and do something for yourself."

Yesterday was the only day so far I didn't call him AND didn't mention him at all to anyone and already by the end of the day I was feeling really good. I alternated between doing lots of chores around the house, exercising, and coming here to read messages - to learn and get courage. During the separation I was really starting to feel OK and that I could 'get on with my life' when he started to e-mail poems to me. I tried the 3 months Plan A to establish a bond between him and us again after such a long separation, to cause problems with the other woman, and because he was considering agreement to delay divorce for a year. All 3 goals were accomplished.

He JUST called. And he wanted to talk to our 15 year old daughter. He usually gives her a ride to her skating today and I guess he just assumed she'd go as usual today even though she has refused to talk to him or see him all week. And he only called once in the week to try to talk to our daughters - to see if they would go with him on the regular Wednesday night visitation. She was standing right next to me but refused to take the phone. I told him that and asked if he had broken up with the other woman yet and was he going to go to counseling. He has an appt with family counselor tomorrow morning and marriage counselor Saturday morning. Two of the reasons our daughters won't talk to him is he lied to them that he was totally broken up with other woman and was absolutely sure they would never get back together, said they were being silly when they had trouble trusting him, and would promise them he'd go to counseling but then kept changing his mind. Should I have handed the phone to my daughter anyway so she would either have to tell him herself that she didn't want to talk to him or see him or be the one to hang up on him herself? I should have just let it go to voice mail.

Update:

Yesterday my husband called asking to talk to 15 year old daughter. I'm assuming he wanted to know if he would be giving her a ride to her skating practice, as usual. She refused to take the phone. She had already asked me to arrange a different ride for her.

But her father showed up at the rink! She said it was embarrasing because he got there at the beginning of practice so the family that gave her a ride must have been wondering why he hadn't brought her. She let him give her a ride home because she didn't want to try to explain it to the family that took her.

She said he suggested going over to the other rink where youngest daughter's skate practice is and then we could go out to dinner afterwards. This had been our regular Sunday routine plus last Sunday he had suggested we go back to the 15 year old's rink for an evening adult skate session that he and I could do together. Maybe that's why there was a message from him when we got home from ballroom dance? We had gone out to lunch with some friends after ballroom dance so we weren't home yet when he called. And all he said in the message was two things he had already told me a week ago. I bet he was really calling to tell me to bring my skates for the adult skate.
Daughter told him she didn't think her sister and I would appreciate him just showing up at the rink and told him to just take her home.

She said she didn't talk to him the rest of the ride (about 30 minute ride). When he pulled into the driveway he asked her if she wanted him to give her a ride to the rink next Sunday. She said no. He asked was it because she hated him? She said no, she hates what he's doing: having a girlfriend, lying to us, and breaking promises. She said he had no time to respond because she got out of car and slammed door.

By the time I got home with other daughter (hours later) she seemed very calm and matter-of-fact about telling me all this. But I'm worried how she was doing at the time. Usually she gets very emotional - sobbing, when she tries to tell him how she feels. Plus it must have been uncomfortable for her when he just showed up at the rink and she felt obligated to ride home with him or else try to explain to others. Also, it was the first time she had ever had to be home alone (older sister was spending the night with a friend). But I guess she was OK. She had just finished watching Halloween and was watching Halloween 2 when we got home. Brave kid LOL

I said something about him acting as if he doesn't believe us when we say we don't want to see him with the way things are. She and younger daughter each said something like so what just forget about him. I reminded them I had been with him for 26 years. She responded that if he could treat me like this after knowing me for that long then that's even more reason to just forget about him.

This morning I was getting ready to go the family counselor appt. because the last he'd said about counseling was he wasn't going to go. I didn't want the appt. to not get used. But he called to ask me for the directions (I had already e-mailed them to him over a week ago). I told him I would stay home then if he was going. This counselor wants to meet each family member privately first before having us come in together and I had already had an appt. with her. I was tempted to call him afterwards to see how it went but stuck to Plan B: didn't call and instead kept busy doing housework.

I'm worried he may assume just because he has gone to one appt., met one requirement, he will think he can go to rink with us tonight or daughters will go out to dinner with him Wednesday? Of course that will be up to daughters and they had made it clear to him what things they had problems with and wanted him to change before they would see him again. Daughters know if they want to see him he can pick them up here but not come in my home, and I will not spend time with him myself. I guess if they wanted him to go to the rink I could just let him take them and I could stay home. If he just shows up there (like last night) I will just not speak to him or sit near him.

Hi Redhat,

Thanks for the advice:

"IMVHO. Draft plan B, get the logistic in place and hand it to him. Forget about sending it to OW. About your kids ... their R with their dad is their own bussines, don't interfere."

Yes I agree. I should stop procrastinating on writing and giving him the Plan B letter. I also agree about sending it to the other woman because I'm afraid she'd call the police and pretend I'm harrassing her. Besides, if she really wanted to know the truth she could have contacted me before sleeping with my husband. I find it hard to believe that such women really believe the 'my wife didn't understand me and I tried to save my marriage but just couldn't' BS; I think they just pretend to believe it to look innocent to the wayward husband. I also agree about not interfering with the realtionship between my daughters and their father. Ironically when they've complained to me about this it was because I was trying to convince them to forgive and understand their father, times I tried to talk them into talking to him or seeing him. But I don't do that anymore.

"4 deposit for each withdrawal ... in SF for instant, if you reject your H for sex one time, you need 4 times to make him forget the incident."

I might not have done an adequate job on this during Plan A. But I know for sure my daughters and I need a break from his emotional abuse right now anyway. At least I never denied him SF - HE was the one who avoided that with me. Early one in Plan A we got intimate once, he hugged me frequently, held my hand sometimes, and even kissed me a few times. But he had been careful to not do anything like that in last half of Plan A, admitting he was purposely trying to stay angry at me so we wouldn't end up reconciling.

"3 months for men, 6 months for women ... all of those are generalization."

So does that mean a betrayed wife should try Plan A for 3 months with her wayward husband?

"This is why I always recomend people to get conseling w/ MB if you feel you are hitting your head to the wall. Your situation is not fall into common situation and you need professional conseling to identify and to coach you to go through and survive this A. If you follow MB, your M might not survive A but you will and you will thrive."

I can't afford the phone consultation but have made appt.s with a very good family counselor that all but $15 is covered by insurance and a very good free marriage counselor/pastor (who was the ONLY counselor we ever tried that my husband and I both like). I've been reading tons that is line with the marriage builders philosophy too.

"Go very dark on plan B. Tell your kids to tell WH to ask you himself if WH is questioning them about you . Reveal very little detail to your kids on you plan."

I need to get better at this. I should always let the answering machine pick up. My husband was asking the kids about me - where I was if I wasn't home. But they didn't tell him (I was usually just at the grocery store LOL). I did tell the kids a little about the plan (oops?). The oldest daughter didn't understand why I was willing to spend time with him during Plan A, why I even wanted to try to save marriage, and why her sisters would talk to him or see him. The other two daughters were rollercoastering most of time I was in Plan A - changing their minds sometimes several times per day about whether or not they wanted to see him. So I did try to explain some of what I'd learned about why he was acting the way he is (the fog and addiction aspect). I told them that believe it or not if I was the parent having an affair I would be behaving the same way. But they just took it as defending or excusing him. I did tell them I was going to stop talking to him and seeing him now and why - something they each at times had said they wanted me to do before now BUT as part of just getting over him and totally giving up. So I explained how this might be what's needed to get him to make a choice instead of trying to be a cake eater.

"If you stay put it means you are feeding this (emotional) abuser with yourself and your kids. You have a duty to protect yourself and your kid."

I agree and that's the major reason I felt I couldn't Plan A any longer. Of course, if my daughters want to have contact with him again I am scared they won't have me there to monitor or intercede when he says things to hurt them. But they're getting more assertive at expressing their feelings and setting boundaries for themselves. There were times when I know he was trying to hurt or anger me enough to get me to dump him so he could blame the divorce on me and not feel guilt about affair. And I know sometimes when pushing my buttons didn't work he went after the kids - knowing that would upset me more easily. Also, when the kids would try to tell him they felt hurt or angry he would blame and punish me for the way they felt as a way to bully them into keeping quiet and not making him feel guilty. It was definitely manipulation and emotional abuse.

"Plan B asap (yesterday)."

Got it! If I even so much as think of him I will remind myself to stick to the plan and just let God take care of the rest. Whatever the outcome I need to just take care of my daughters and myself right now.

Hi Icedancer,

Decided to come over here and post to you rather than continue to hijack Shugah's thread. I hope you have received the info you needed regarding the P.S. to the OW. From Surviving An Affair , here is the wording of the P.S.:

(OW Name): I love (WH Name) with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I will wait for him to give me that chance.

Have you read Surviving An Affiar ? If not, please order it here on the MB website. It is of enormous help and will put everything in perspective for you. Believe it or not, just about every WS speaks the same language...fog-speak you will see it referred to here. It's like they are cut from cookie-cutters...the same mold. Many say they are reading from a script.

All the best to you. Now one last recommendation. While you probably will get some good response here, the General Questions II Board is the most active. Feel free to start new threads there. And when you get to the Plan B...the real Plan B, there is a Plan B support thread...I will bump it up for you. Read through that and get some insight on what happens, the support everyone offers, etc. Pretty helpful stuff.

*S*

Hi Sparkle

Thanks for responding and the info about the P.S.

I saw that MortarMan had something like that at the end of the letter he gave his wife. I'm still not sure if I'm brave enough to send the other woman the letter though.

It really does help to hear that the other wayward spouses say pretty much the same thing.
Thank God I came across the advice to not believe anything they say a few months ago! I'm sure I could never have done the Plan A otherwise. My husband has said the most cruel things to me (and sadly to our daughters too). I know he was just trying to anger me enough to give up on him so he can pretend nothng's his fault. I try to remember he's scared, confused and addicted. BUT usually when I've slipped into relationship talk it was because I was worried about or feeling sort of sorry for HIM. So I have to be careful to not feel TOO understanding about what he's going through. So I guess right now it's sort of healthier for me to feel angry at him - makes it easier to not contact him. I've made the mistake at times of thinking I was strong enough to reach out to him only to be hurt really deeply. I kept wondering when he was going to realize what he's doing to us, when he would bottom out, but instead my daughters and I were the ones crashing and burning. Sometimes I wonder how we can ever forgive him. I guess I have to just keep telling myself it's the addiction and fog. But I don't know if my daughters will ever buy that. He will have a lot of proving to do with them.

I did see the thread over on general questions for Plan B support. I read a few pages of it earlier and posted one message to 23Down, trying to cheer him up some. It must be really scary for him with the other man being so wealthy. I suspect my husband's salary is a factor for other woman. She's a single mom who used to work with him. My husband admits he fell for her first but she wouldn't date him until she got laid off. AND about a month after their break-up she suddenly was willing to consider taking him back. At the same time my husband out of the blue accused me of only staying with him all those years because of financial necessity. I think he realized she was willing to take him back because all her bills had come due and he needed to assure himself that's all my devotion to him amounted to as well. It really hurts me the way he defends her so much even when she makes a fool out of him.

Hi Icedancer,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm still not sure if I'm brave enough to send the other woman the letter though. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You really, really need to do this. The more you can inject discomfort into their little fantasy world, the rockier their relationship will be. That means, doing everything and anything to introduce doubt, guilt, frustration, etc. Many others, far more expert than I, will tell you this is true and sending the letter will tell this OW that you aren't the person your WS has portrayed you to be, and that you aren't giving up on your marriage. That is very important.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...he needed to assure himself that's all my devotion to him amounted to as well. It really hurts me the way he defends her so much even when she makes a fool out of him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, how thick the FOG is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Keep your chin up...send the letter - one to each of them. Be strong, we are here for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

*S*

Sparkle!!!!

You must have been reading my mind!

ALL DAY I have been fighting a really strong urge to let the other woman know what's going on with the visitation. All three daughters have flatly refused to have anything to do with their father because they are disgusted he's back with the other woman after lying to us that it was totally over and there was no way they were ever getting back together - he promised them... They won't speak to him on the phone, answer his e-mails, or go on visitation with him. BUT when his daughters refuse visitation he is NOT spending that time with the other woman instead! SO she is under impression everything's OK with his daughters, right? I just KNOW she would flip out if she found out he was lying to her and just pretending to be off doing visitation with his daughters. So now I think I should send her a copy of the Plan B letter, with a P.S. 'to the other woman'. My husband claims she's not the monster I think she is and says she never intended to be 'the other woman'. BUT because I'm such a chicken I'm thinking it might be better to ask one of my sisters to contact her, claiming I don't know they're doing it? I'm sorry but I'm scared by their threats to have me arrested and get a restraining order against me if I contact her.

OK I will give this a try (Plan B Letter)
Please let me know what you think:

Dear (my husband),

I love you and cherish the memories and life we built together. I was hoping we could spend the rest of our lives together too, with our daughters and eventually our grandchildren.

You told me the card I sent you recently with the little pink notes inside was the sweetest thing anyone has ever given you. Each little note was about a special time we spent together, some from long ago, some from just these past few months. I will cherish those memories forever.

These past few months that we've shared with you as a family again have been bittersweet. I guess you could say it was the best of times, and it was the worst of times.

We had so much fun going canoeing, to the Chinese buffet, (daughters') wild ride driving practice in the cemetary, hanging out at your apartment, watching our daughters' skating teams practice, spending time with our old friends for family game night and parties again, going to the corn maze and hayride, drive-in movies, and watching videos together. You kept saying you really enjoyed the Saturday we all spent together, even (oldest daughter), how nice it felt to ask for a table for 5 and feel like a whole family again. And it was extra sweet the times you and I spent alone together: taking me to Coleman's restaurant, to the vitamin store to buy supplements for me because you were worried about my health, going to see the tall ship, and last but not least the evening at the Holiday Inn. It was sweet of you to invite me to go to adult skate with you every Sunday night. At times you were so sweet and loving to me, calling me honey, hugging me, telling me how pretty I was, and calling me your '(pet nickname)', promising to never leave me again and to go to marriage counseling with me.

But at other times you admitted you were struggling to keep your distance, trying to be angry at me, and 'nervous' that I turned you on.
You also admitted you were undecided and I realize that's why you would try to pick fights and say cruel things - if I got angry and gave up on you it wouldn't be a decision you would have to take responsibility for. It was not so easy for me to be understanding about what was going on between you and our daughters though. Seeing them sobbing while trying to tell you how they felt and having you respond with "I don't have to listen to this" was heartwrenching. When you told (middle daughter) you were 'torn' between the other woman and your family, she responded 'well then you must not love me very much if it's so hard to decide', hung up on you, and then spent the next hour crying in her room. I knew then they couldn't take much more. Our daughters wanted so much to believe you when you PROMISED THEM you were totally broke up with the other woman and were sure you were never going back to her. But you broke that promise to them as well as many others.

I believe that you didn't start out intending to hurt anyone. I know you wish there were some magical way for you to make a choice without anyone getting hurt or to keep us all in your life without it being humiliating or hurtful to anyone. I wish there were some way for us to continue to see you, to be here for you, welcoming you into our home and hearts, without it being so painful for us. Please understand and forgive us when we say we just can't do this anymore. Already I am worried our daughters may have a real struggle ever trusting you again. In order to preserve what love and respect we still do have for you we have to protect ourselves from further hurt. So we will give you some time and space to make up your mind. If you decide you won't give up the other woman we will have no choice but to accept that and try to get on with our lives without you. Please understand that we are certain we cannot continue as things have been, I can't be 'just friends' with you and your daughters have made it clear they would prefer to just try to forget about you than to only have you in their lives for lmiited visitation. I know I said I'd welcome you in my home and go along on visitation if you signed the agreement to delay the divorce for a year. We were looking forward to getting to be a whole family again for the holidays. But I never agreed to keep it a secret you were spending time with me. And your daughters are so upset with you that I'm sure you'll understand why we can't do this anymore. They have had such an emotional roller coaster ride during these past few months, their hopes being raised and dashed repeatedly. Again I don't believe you intended to hurt them with your indecision and promises you weren't ready to keep. We have to protect ourselves and our remaining love for you so if you choose to make a committment to our marriage and family we will still want you back. If you choose the other woman, we will let you go and ask that you release us in return.

Please do not contact me until you have made a final decision. As of now our daughters do not want to have contact with you either. They can contact you themselves by phone or e-mail if that changes. I will not discuss visitation with you as that is between you and your daughters. I will contact you if there is an emergency or anything you need to be informed of. You can e-mail or leave a phone message if you need to contact us with emergency or important info.

We love you and want you to know that we are doing this because it's the only way we can ensure we can be here for you if you decide to come home. I want to assure you that I love you, understand, and forgive you. I will make it my responsibility to get any knowledge and counseling I need to learn how to fulfill your needs and build a loving marriage. At times you revealed you were afraid to try reconciliation because you wouldn't know what to tell your relatives and coworkers. That would be something we would figure out and face together. I fully intend to be a wife you can be proud of and the people who care about you will have nothing to worry about. I have already started working on my problems and fully intend to make my husband happy. For a little while longer the choice is still yours whether or not that happy husband will be you or another man.

I know, I left out the part about working on my own problems, my responsibility for my part of our marital problems, not realizing/meeting some of his needs in the past. I had it in my messy notes and accidently skipped over it (honestly).

icedancer,

OK, IMHO, waaaay too much memory stuff. Not recommended. You aren't going to "get to him" that way. All that does is reinforce the cake eating. It reminds him that you are "pining away" for him and give him the permission, if you will, to continue the affair. Please refer back to Mortarman's Plan B letter that he sent. It's pretty much out of the book.

You need to sound strong: "until you end the relationship with (name) once and for all, I can have no contact with you." Don't ask him to make a choice. Tell him you will not see him or speak to him until he has ended it. Then tell him: "when you have ended all contact with OW, let me know and I will be willing to discuss our future together." Note...no promise that you will be there waiting for him. Don't tell him that...again, it gives him permission to continue until he's good and ready.

You can say you loved him when you married, you have loved him for X years and still do. Say that when you married you did it for life. Say "however, I just cannot be with you or be your wife as long as you continue to see OW."

Just avoid the personal memories. It hurts you more than it gets to him.

Now...icedancer, you must get tough. You MUST - YOU, not a sister, not a friend - YOU must send the letter to the OW. You can email it, if you have her email address, or send it thru snail mail. But it must come from you. A sister's intervention is "nice," but will never have the impact or the credibility that the message coming from you will. You have to blow her fantasies about your husband totally apart.

Like I said earlier (sorry I haven't been here in a while), ya gotta be tough, gal!

We'll all rally round and support you. Trust...this is the way to go, it really is!

*S*

Icedancer -
Your Plan B letter needs to be shortened up and leave out all the memories. These WS's are in a fog and letter has to be short and to the point. My H says he can't even remember getting letter, although I handed it to him.


Dear (my husband),

I love you and cherish the memories and life we built together. I was hoping we could spend the rest of our lives together too, with our daughters and eventually our grandchildren.

I am sorry I didn't realize how unhappy you have become. I made mistakes and I regret them. I am working now to make changes in myself.

To protect the love I have for you, I will have no contact with you while you are still seeing OW. I hope you will continue to have a relationship with your daughters. You can contact them.

If in the future you stop having contact with OW, I would like to work with you to develope a plan to work on our marriage. THE END

Anyway, icedancer, this is what I would write. You can hand write it and give it to H. Then start taking care of yourself and daughters. One more thing, while the counseling here seems expensive, your have to realize that they will cut to the chase, no personality profiles, moaning and groaning about what could have been, should have been, talking about your mean old husband, etc. They will go directly toward saving your marriage. I did not get counseling here and in the long run it cost me thousands and thousands. So anyway, work on Plan B letter and let us know how it is going.