Posted this in another forum, but should be here.

My H of 13 years has been having an A for almost 4 months. We are ready to separate now so he can get his thoughts together. He told me "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." She makes him feel alive. They connect. He doesn't think we ever did connect like they do. He feels that she is his soulmate. He thinks I'm a wonderful person, wonderful mother and doesn't want to see anything bad happen to me or our children. He's very torn right now.

That's why I want him to move out to sort things out in his head. He's 41, and I think it's a mid-life crisis. Two of the needs I know she meets are conversation and admiration. She would probably meet his need for recreational companionship, but they can't do much together lest someone see them. He stopped wearing his wedding ring a few weeks ago because he said he thought he needed to earn it back. Said it would probably bother him if I stopped wearing mine. I did stop just a few days ago. I just felt that wearing it was a lie.

We never really fought much. He says we just drifted away and it's been going on for several years. We have two children, 10 and 8. I stay at home and am very involved in school (or was until this happened on August 7 and now I'm a hermit).

I have been doing Plan A since he told me ILYBINILWY on August 7, except I haven't told everyone about the affair. He told me on September 2 that he is having an A and is in love with her. (She told her H just about 2 weeks ago.) Since then I've tried to Plan A, but I'm thoroughly and completely depressed and distressed. There are days when it's hard to get out of bed. I've been doing the bare minimum around the house and haven't helped the children with homework at all. Did they take a bath in the last five days? I don't know.....

Since we are going to probably separate, I was wondering what people thought about Plan B. My H said when I first told him to move out shortly after he told me about her, that if he moved out he wouldn't be back. He didn't say it like a threat, but knowing him (very stubborn, Type A), I knew he meant it. Now, however, he says he was just blowing hot air. He doesn't want to move out, but knows it's for the best. He wants to get his head together, too.

The thing about Plan B for he and I is that I don't know that I WANT to have no contact. I think him just being out of the house will help him with his feelings of ambivalence. I'm not talking about chatting all the time, but we do have very good relationship talks now. We haven't really done that in our marriage and I think that it is helping us. I know it is helping me. I've not really been an open person about my feelings. He said he has tried to tell me that things weren't right, but I guess he didn't try hard enough or I didn't hear him.

Know there are many things that I'm leaving out of the story here, but sometimes it's hard to think of everything.

Soo, what do you all think about Plan B? Does anyone think you can do Plan B with minimal contact?
Sue

A couple more things:

He has tried to end the A twice. Both times he said he meant it, but couldn't last 48 hours. Had to contact her. He was the one to pursue her. He is the one who can't break it off, although she is head over heels for him and wants to marry him. She is going to Divorce her H either way. She likes me and doesn't want to be the one to break up our family.

I have read ALL the books. Can't stop reading books or this site. He has read some things. In addition to the Harley's books, the one book that was a real eye opener was Triangles. It is very statistical, so for a Type A, analytical person like my husband, he found merit in it. I copied many pages for him.

We went to MC 1 time. I spent 20 minutes together with him and counselor, he spent the remaining 40 minutes with her alone. He has said after we separate, that if we do get back together that he wants to do counseling. Prior to this, he has been totally against it. Only went to the first one because I said I'm not giving him a Divorce unless he goes to counseling with me.

I have laid down the lines that once he is out, if he comes back he is to NEVER have contact with her again. It would be a definitely OUT! Three times and you're out in my book. I don't really care what other people's limits are, but that is mine! Additionally, if he ever has any sort of A in the future, it's over. I have been a loving spouse our entire marriage and have been supportive of him, good caretaker, good mother, social coordinator.

I know I will read this post and say Gosh that sounds stupid. Everyone else, well, maybe not EVERYONE, but many people sound so concise and intelligent and lay it all out in a nice little package for us all to read. To you all, I appreciate your excellence with words. Be patient with my subpar writing, please.

Suebee,

There is sort of a procedure with Plan B. One, it is to be used to protect your love for him, and it is recommended that you go to it, BEFORE you love for him starts to really fade and you start to LB.

I believe Harley says that when the WS is on the fence trying to decide between you and OP, then is a good time to Plan B.

So where do you fit in this?? It is really your call, but I will say this, if after he moves out, you start to feel more and more taken advantage of, and start to feel the need to LB, then go to plan B. Most people err on the side of waiting too long to go to it.

So think about this and keep posting I am sure you will get many more suggestions as to what you might consider.

God Bless,

JL

JL, thanks for your reply. Yeah, I know what Harley said, "When they're trying to decide between the OP and you, it's time for Plan B." It's soooo scary to think about doing that! But it sounds like your opinion is that he can be moved out but I don't have to be in Plan B. I can still be in Plan A.

Guess that's the kind of decision that I'm looking for; is it a Plan A with him out of the house, or does it have to turn into Plan B when he moves out.

Meanwhile, I keep praying and trying my best to get up in the morning and move.

NOW I see what people mean when they have two posts in a row and the second one says, "Woops double post." .......... LOL

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Suebee ]</small>

There is no such thing as a plan b with minimal contact. The whole point of Plan B is no contact. If you are in contact, you are not in Plan B - you are in some other amalgamation of your own invention.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been doing Plan A since he told me ILYBINILWY on August 7, except I haven't told everyone about the affair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then you are not doing Plan A, either. I have no clue what you are doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> There are reasons for exposure and reasons for no contact and none of them have to do with what 'feels right'.

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

Suebee,

You can most certainly do plan A once he moves out. Takola, brings up the point of telling others. I know Harley recommends it but he doesn't insist on it. HOWEVER, if and when he moves out, your family and his family as well as close friends just MAY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> notice that he is not there. I strongly urge you NOT to lie for him. Tell them the truth, and thereby open the doors to airing the A out so to speak.

Honesty is a key thing here, and you lying for your H while he is having an affair is not good. It will very likely make him mad for you to disclose the A, but I believe that you can look him square in the eye and ask him, if he wants you to become a liar. I doubt he does.

Frankly one thing I forgot to mention is that Plan B should always follow a good plan A, which it sounds you have done. I would caution you that you are meeting his needs by remaining in plan A, that is good, but it may delay the demise of the A.

I am of the opinion, that plan A plants seeds of recovery, and it offers the WS a chance to come home or out of the A if they are conflicted by it at the point of discovery. Your H is not conflicted by the A because he has twice tried to end it and decided to remain in the A. Further, he is leaving suggesting that you are simply going to have to let the A die if it will. Most do die.

So I am thinking that not too long after he leaves, you will need to be in Plan B. Why? Because while you wait for the A to die, it will drain your love bank very fast if you have contact with him. It will really be pointless to wait for the A to die, only to find out you are out of love with him and don't want to work through recovery which can be quite hard and time consuming.

You need to realize that Plan B is the kindest thing you can do for yourself and for the potential recovery of your marriage, if he really is uncertain and the A needs to die a long death.

So, I am thinking given your statements that plan A is where you are and should be, but that plan B is closer than you think. I suspect you will know. Once he moves out, I am sure you will see some changes, and it may be that OW becomes more prevalent in his life. That would be a good time to go to plan B.

We'll see, as you go. I think you will have a good idea, but remember when it seems like a "really good idea", it is probably later than optimal to have gone to it.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

Takola, I just read your post on Plan B regarding contact. D***, it seems like it will be hard to do if I get to that, but you're right.

JL, thanks for the kind words. It feels good to have someone else who doesn't know me really analyze the situation. I have told my best friend, and my H knows that. She is a neighbor. Also 4 other neighbor friends suspect problems in our R. He knows what they have said about it to my BF. Also, I will definitely tell once he is out of the house. He is terrified to tell people, but knows that it will need to be done. Mostly, he is worried about the respect of his parents. They will be very angry with him as they have the utmost respect and love for me. His dad has always told him to treat me right because I deserve it. Also about the respect of people at work. He is in management and knows that many of the people who report to him will lose respect. At one point, he has said he didn't care about losing his job, his parents, his friends ... only losing his children. He was willing to throw everything away for a woman he was having an A with for only about 2 months at the time. So, exposure seems to be emminent.

I definitely agree that I need to Plan B after he leaves. I have seen my love dying ever so slowly already. It has caused me to contact an attorney for advice. He knows this and it seems to bother him. Know he doesn't want to lose his children, but don't know that he worries about losing me.

When he moves out, I have told him that I DO want him to spend time with OW to see if they are soulmates. The problem is that she is also married and has a 2-year-old. Don't know exactly how much time they will be able to spend together. She is definitely going to D her husband, but has lost her job and is worried about losing her child. Her H may try to go for sole custody and he very well may get it from what my H has told me. I wouldn't try to get sole custody because I feel the children need their father. BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE DIVORCED!!!

There are times that I see warmness in him and other times I don't, although the times I don't are getting fewer and farther between. While I'm waiting I will continue to read and post. Thanks for listening!

SueBee,
I can really relate to where you are right now, even the time frame. My WS dropped his bomb in early August of 02. I remember it was one week after school had started and I couldn't get myself together to do any of the usual activities that involves. I just hid and wore sunglasses the rest of the time. I was embarressed and ashamed and if anyone looked at me I burst out crying. Did that the first time I ventured out to pick D up at Girl Scouts. D was horrified and I was sorry she was embarressed but I've tried to use to talk about feelings with her, being honest, etc.

Whether others "knew" or not, I felt like it showed on me and probably did! It was impossible to have a normal conversation. A year later, it's better, at least I sometimes have a sense of humor again. And I've learned to hold my head up and confront that dear in the headlights look I often see in folks who know the nasty details. I still can't figure out how WH and OW manage to do that in our small community! WH has peeped out from his shell a few times when he and OW have been on the outs but he recovers all too quickly and reverts to his usual mode these days, angry and depressed. Sounds awful, but it makes me feel a bit better to see he is so miserable - he's the opposite of a poker face and I know him too well. OW probably blames his depression on me. Doubt he's shared with her the stuff he told me when they weren't getting along.

I've been doing a good plan A for awhile but wish I had been able to do so earlier on. I don't think I'm meeting any of his needs, though, he's just too withdrawn, but no more LBs on my part. I'm just now going to B which is probably too late as the other poster said. It's so scary to make that step.

I don't know when the right time for B is but I think sooner is better than later especially if he is wavering. Be sure you've laid the foundation with a good plan A. I think it's possible to withdraw lovingly and focus on yourself before going to a full plan B. Respect yourself and act accordingly!

I meant to ask what is the full name of the book on Triangles you mentioned? Did your H read it? He sounds alot like my WAH - type A, makes a decision and sticks to it no matter what.

Jaz, sounds like you know which way is up. Yes, a good Plan A could work. How in the world did you keep it up this long??! I'm never going to last that long. I'm about at the end of my rope. In all actuality, I've been in Plan A for 13 years. Never tried to rock the boat and tried to meet his needs, which I obviously did poorly at or he wouldn't have found her.

Did your H ever fill out the EN questionnaire? I have filled mine out and given to H. Told him not to read it until he had done his, but that was two weeks ago. Then we were talking on Sunday night and I read some of mine to him while we were talking about needs. I wanted to know what needs of his I wasn't meeting. He didn't really enlighten me much but I said that I thought she was meeting admiration and conversation. He agreed.

It's hard to have the children see him treat me with disrespect. He came in yesterday and I went to hug him and thought he pulled away, so I turned around. He got angry. Said he wasn't pulling away. Then he turned around and there were our children, staring wide-eyed at us. Ugh, my stomach hurts to think about it! I totally miss the affection!!!!

JL,

I don't know where you got your misinformation, but Dr. Harley does insist upon exposure. His exact phrasing is, "Put it on the evening news." The reason is that the affair thrived in secrecy and you need to expose the affair to destroy the conditions under which it flourishes.

Again, are we discussing Plan A and Plan B, or some alagamation created by the BS or on this board?

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

Ouch, Takola. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I know where you stand on all of this Plan A/Plan B stuff now. I guess I'm doing a "Betrayed Spouse Plan A Amalgamation." No, I haven't put it on the evening news. Do you think there are situations where some plans need to be modified? I don't mean that sarcastically; I'm interested if you think that some people need to be treated differently. We all have different learning styles, and maybe this is a learning process which needs to be tailored for some people. What do you think?

Jaz, guess I was typing my response last night while you posted your question ... then I had to go carve pumpkins with the kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The book is titled "Triangles" by Lana Staheli. I have also found "After the Affair" by Janis Abrahams Springs and "Surviving Infidelity" by Rona Subotnik and Gloria Harris helpful. My husband likes to analyze things to death before a decision to make sure that it is the right decision ... I know, so why did he decide on the A ... go figure. Triangles was helpful for both of us, but he hasn't read the other two.

I am reading Men in Midlife Crisis by Jim (?) Conway and Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. It seems that I pick up a few points from any book I read, so it just keeps me going from page to page and book to book.

Suebee,

Ouch, Takola. I know where you stand on all of this Plan A/Plan B stuff now.

Please don't let Takola's direct approach scare you.....she's really a kitty kat...but speaks clearly....and in this case...quite correctly.

I guess I'm doing a "Betrayed Spouse Plan A Amalgamation."

Everything I've read, been counseled with etc. reiterates that when you tailor and adjust these plans because you think your situation is so unique (don't we ALL!) weakens their effectiveness. Dr. Harley developed these plans over twenty years of trial and error about what works and what doesn't. Let me give you cerri's guidelines for plan A....she sees Willard Harley every week and he does indeed say "put it on the evening news" (just listen *or call* the radio show)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A as Harley meant it to be...

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
--


--
Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No, I haven't put it on the evening news. Do you think there are situations where some plans need to be modified?

I think that some people will simply not do the exposure part of plan A (even though it is the single most effective way of injecting conflict into the affair) and so plans are adjusted for that fact alone....but not to make them more effective....no.

[b]I don't mean that sarcastically; I'm interested if you think that some people need to be treated differently.

Every spouse on the planet gets upset about exposure.....of course they do.....it pretty much blows open fantasyland and they don't want that for ANYTHING. It is however, anger that seems to dissipate rather quickly since it sort of reawakens their conscience and helps clear the fog.

We all have different learning styles, and maybe this is a learning process which needs to be tailored for some people. What do you think?

Well, I responded to this earlier. I mentor couple's on cerri's site....and I cannot tell you what a difference it makes to skip exposure. When it does finally happens....what a huge change occurs. Just recently, I had someone who finally exposed the affair after being certain it would alienate her spouse forever....CERTAIN. What happened? Well the OW called her....the compared notes....and BOTH of them decided to make their little cake eater get off the fence. Looks like he's going home soon if he can meet the other conditions for reconcilliation. So please be careful. You can't work these concepts like you do a buffet table....taking the ones that suit you and ignoring the rest.....doesn't work that way. They work in conjunction with each other....and each part....is part of a whole.

Good Luck....my heart goes out to you and I wish you the best.

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

star*fish, but I LOVE buffets! I love the salad, the soup, the side dishes and then you even get all the dessert you want! What could be better?!

Okay, I understand you can't pick and choose. Her H knows and my BF knows. When he moves out, which should be in the next week, I will inform my parents and our friends, and he will inform his parents. What about his work? Does he need to inform them or should I?

As far as Plan A for 3 months for women, is that from when you first find out about the A? He told me on 8/7 ILYBINILWY. I asked him a few times then and thereafter if he was having A. Answer was always no. Then on 9/2/03 he told me about A. Do I go from the 8/7 date or the 9/2 date?

Thanks for all your input everyone! I absolutely don't know where I would have been without this site! The books are great and all, but connecting with real people (are we REALLY real on the net <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ?!) just makes this journey so much easier. And I can't forget the good Lord in all of this. Sometimes we just have to go through rough times to help us appreciate the good times. Prior to all of this, I felt my life was totally easy! Now <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you think there are situations where some plans need to be modified? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Neither the BS nor the WS are in any position to modify it. Every BS thinks their situation is unique and requires modification. If you have Dr. Harley tell you that you need to modify it, that's one thing. Or an MB certified counselor or coach. You may skip the no contact letter part to a OP, for instance, if you have found out about the affair after the fact and there is already no contact. You may also skip the exposure part in that scenario.

But, no, your situation has nothing that sticks out to me as requiring modification of anything.

Takola, Starfish, and Suebee,

I think a few things are getting very confused in this thread so let us straighen them out now.

First, the concept of revealing the A to all. I KNOW for a fact that Steve H, and Jenn, have counseled against it in some few cases. I also know that as this goes along Suebee will have to reveal the A, indeed she has already done that. But, in certain cases where a WS has been willing to come home or end the A, revealing the A can cause harm, hence the counseling of Steve H and Jenn H. C.

Starfish you posted </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While I firmly believe in the deadline and a relatively short Plan A as mentioned and pushed by Cerri, I know of a well documented situation in which Cerri first entered this board "Persistant" Plan A'd for 2.5 years under the guidance of Jenn H. Chalmers (sp), AND IT WORKED.

So absolutes seem a bit premature here don't you think? I sure do, hence my comments to Suebee.

However, what disturbs me greatly is that this turned into who believes in the "true Plan A/Plan B " the most. In the meantime I get the idea that Suebee is very confused.

She asked if she had to go to plan B when her H left. My answer is no, she can still plan A. Further I stated that I felt that she would need to go to plan B fairly soon after the separation, but that was stated only as a conjecture on my part. It would depend on WS's behavior and her feelings.

In the ensuing discussion about the "pure" plan, I fear that Suebee is now feeling that she must go to Plan B when he leaves. SHE DOES NOT.

I firmly agree that Plan B means NO CONTACT except as necessitated by children or family emergency. But does she need to go there NOW? That seems to to be the issue.

Would you ladies care to comment on this issue? I am sure she would appreciate your advice.

God Bless,

JL

I've spoken to Jenn more recently than 2 years and she advised me to go to Plan B within 2 weeks. There are decided differences between Dr. Harley's approach and Steve's. So much so that they aren't even on the same page. However, I have made allowances for trained MB personnel modifying Plan A and Plan B. I just don't think it's good to advise any deviation for standard circumstances. EVERYONE out here has a 'unique' circumstance that they swear requires deviation. I've seen few that truly fit the bill. The general situation is that the BS doesn't want to expose and doesn't want to do no contact, and comes up with a reason for it.

I haven't yet encountered an instance where Dr. Harley, Jenn, or Cerri (trained by Dr. Harley) has not recommended exposure, except for the scenario I give above.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But does she need to go there NOW? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Neither I nor anyone else that I've read has said anything to the effect that she needs to go there now. I'm responding to the title of this thread, which is about minimal contact during plan b.

As for children and family emergencies, you need a mediator.

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

JL,

I think a few things are getting very confused in this thread so let us straighen them out now.

First, the concept of revealing the A to all. I KNOW for a fact that Steve H, and Jenn, have counseled against it in some few cases.

JL....I believe that is true....but even Jenn and Steve's advice has been changing dramatically in the past few years and cerri, who has contact with all of them, has seen a decided change in their advice recently. Further, it was Willard Harley who is the genius behind these concepts. Steve and Jenn carry on this legacy with input from him. There is no doubt in my mind about how he feels about exposure. I believe, and you can challenge me if you like....that the adjustments for exposure are a result of clients who simply don't have the heart for it. I mentor several myself who just cannot do it. In those cases....adjustments are made....but NOT because exposure does not work....rather because it is just not in their hearts to do so.

I also know that as this goes along Suebee will have to reveal the A, indeed she has already done that. But, in certain cases where a WS has been willing to come home or end the A, revealing the A can cause harm, hence the counseling of Steve H and Jenn H. C.

If Suebee had exposed the A....she wouldn't be asking questions like should I tell his boss or let him do it? If this is a work related affair....it should be exposed at work. These kind of affairs don't just put the marriage at risk....but the businesses too. Do you think her H will tell his boss??? I don't. Also...this spouse does not seem willing to give this marriage a chance AT ALL.....and exposure injects conflict into the affair.

Starfish you posted
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I firmly believe in the deadline and a relatively short Plan A as mentioned and pushed by Cerri, I know of a well documented situation in which Cerri first entered this board "Persistant" Plan A'd for 2.5 years under the guidance of Jenn H. Chalmers (sp), AND IT WORKED.

First of all....the quotes attributed to me...are cerri's...wanted that to be clear. JL...there are always going to be people like persistant and others.....who do a ridiculously long Plan A....and succeed. It is NOT however the recommended course of action. And I will continue to recommend a LIMITED time for Plan A to limit the pain and maximize the success of Plan A.

So absolutes seem a bit premature here don't you think? I sure do, hence my comments to Suebee.

However, what disturbs me greatly is that this turned into who believes in the "true Plan A/Plan B " the most. In the meantime I get the idea that Suebee is very confused.

JL....I respect you greatly and I am not challenging your advice. The idea that people can use these concepts as a buffet table however are all over this board. Steve Harley warned me about that personally....that was HIS analogy...and I'm trying my best (like you) to give the best advice I can


She asked if she had to go to plan B when her H left. My answer is no, she can still plan A. Further I stated that I felt that she would need to go to plan B fairly soon after the separation, but that was stated only as a conjecture on my part. It would depend on WS's behavior and her feelings.

Sorry JL....but I don't remember telling her to go to Plan B at all....I'll go back and check...but I think I was merely responding to her description of Plan B.

In the ensuing discussion about the "pure" plan, I fear that Suebee is now feeling that she must go to Plan B when he leaves. SHE DOES NOT.

I know many people who have mounted a Plan A successfully during separation.....so I would not prematurely push her into that. I want her to understand what each plan IS....because there is much confusion about that.

I firmly agree that Plan B means NO CONTACT except as necessitated by children or family emergency. But does she need to go there NOW? That seems to to be the issue.

I don't think I said NOW....I think I was explaining the plans.

As always JL....thanks for you input....I hold you in high regard!

Whoa, I didn't know I was opening such a can of worms between y'all. Glad that dialogue is ongoing and that everyone has their chance to back up their philosophies and opinions.

I've had a few glasses of wine after trick-or-treating, so I will respond briefly to one thing that jumped off the page at me.
Star*fish said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If Suebee had exposed the A....she wouldn't be asking questions like should I tell his boss or let him do it? If this is a work related affair....it should be exposed at work. These kind of affairs don't just put the marriage at risk....but the businesses too. Do you think her H will tell his boss??? I don't. Also...this spouse does not seem willing to give this marriage a chance AT ALL.....and exposure injects conflict into the affair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is not a work-related affair. They were in the same type of business, but she is no longer in that business. The reason I was wondering if I tell his boss is that I know he respects his boss. He will probably tell him when we separate, but what if he doesn't. I know that he respects his boss's wife's opinion also. She thinks a lot of me and will be disappointed at his decisions.

But most importantly, I object to your statement that "this spouse does not seem willing to give this marriage a chance AT ALL." That is EXACTLY the opposite of what is true! I am TOTALLY WILLING TO GIVE THIS MARRIAGE EVERY CHANCE!!! I love my H with all my heart and soul and don't want to live the rest of my life without him! I am willing to do the work, but I am not sure that some of the things in these plans are for me ... at this time. I am not quite 2 months into the knowledge of the A and will deal with things in good time. This just doesn't seem to be the right time for me right now.

Will think about things over the night and respond more in the morning. My belly is stuffed with Reese's, Twizzlers, Sugar Babies, Sugar Daddys, Milky Ways, etc., etc. Uggghhhh. Sleep tight everyone!