I had been in Plan A with my H and we had been going to marriage counseling. The MC could see that my H had not been able to give up the A so on Friday, I left the session early to give them a chance to talk sepaately. His suggestion to my H was that if he wanted to honestly work at his M then he would have to do 2 things:

1. Give up the A and have NO CONTACT.
2. Separate from me out of the house to be able to think more clearly.

Therefore on Saturday he decided to stay at his mom's (about a mile away) and that he would go see his OW and say he needed her not to call, he could not call, etc.

I was a bit upset and left so he could pack a few things, but in the meantime I decided to call the OW's STBXH. I wanted to get what the story was from his side and confirm or deny anything that I knew. I learned a few things and I have a feeling so did he.

Well, about 3:00 p.m. on Sunday my H shows up hot, hot, hot. I have never seen him so angry. He yelled at me that "I made the wrong f****** phone call". I told him that all I did was call to get this story from his side and give him mine. He repeated his last phrase and stormed away.

About an hour later I get a phone call from the OW. She is under the impression that perhaps I want to talk to her. I asked from who and she said 2 people, not sure if this is true but I decided to have the chat anyways.

In our phone conversation I asked her what she said to my H to make him so angry with me. She said she was told by her STBXH that I told him they had been physical for 8 months. I did not do this and told her so and told her to clear this up with my H. We then talked a bit and I told her that alot of people could see that we have something to save including our MC. At that point she stopped, and said your counselor?? I said yes, and she asked how long had we been in counseling. I told her about 2 months. She asked when was the last time we saw the MC together and I said last friday and then 2 weeks prior to that. She told me that if I thought we had something to save she would back out. Apparently my H has been telling her that it's over and he's going to get a divorce and didn't bother to tell her about the counseling. According to her, not that I really believe it, but she called him up and asked him two questions:

1. Were you in counseling on friday?
2. Were you in counseling 2 weeks ago?

He replie yes, because I told her I could send her the cancelled checks. AT that point she told me that she told him it was over between the two of them until I signed divorce papers.

Ok, so that's the story updated as it is. What should I do from here? I need alot of advice and suggestions. Should I just wait until our next MC session? I don't think I should call him, but I'm really lost right now.

Advice, suggestions and support would be most greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks,
Hope!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Hope4Best:
<strong> What should I do from here? I need alot of advice and suggestions. Should I just wait until our next MC session? I don't think I should call him, but I'm really lost right now.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not cerri or JL so I leave the advice to them. I just suggest you not to call him and do not LB if he called you. I would even lay low for now.

You should be glad that WH lied to OW ... you know this A will end or would never become fullfilling R.

-rh-

I'm with redhat. He is expert. Things seem to be moving along fine. You need to concentrate on you and just let things ride. Try to take care of yourself and don't think so much about him. If you do hear from him, stay with Plan A. Sounds like you are doing well. This may be the time that everything gets turned around. Hang in there, and keep posting.

New update, he called about 5:30 (which was about 2 hours after he screamed at me and about 1 hour after his OW supposedly called him to say it was over until she saw my signature on DV papers) and very calmly wanted to and I quote "have a sensible discussion versus me coming and screaming at you".

Should I do this? My inclination, since I already have a call into the counselor, is to meet with him as a mediator. Does that sound like a better plan? Quite frankly I'm a bit afraid. I did agree to meet him, and set it up for a restaurant which is very public.

Also, does it make sense that he's so calm all of a sudden? Why would he now want to have a "sensible" conversation???

I'm confused, scared and shaking like a leaf!

Hope

Don't try to read his mind. Ask him. Then see if his answers make sense to you. If not, tell him you don't understand, and ask him to clarify. If you can't make sense of his answers, don't be too surprised, he is still in fogland, even if he is now in the process of leaving. If his answers DO make sense, see if they are consistent with his actions going forward.

<small>[ November 02, 2003, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Hope,

Talk to him....but remember that very little he says right now will be true or rational. Also, even though you are apart, stay in Plan A for a while if you think you can. Separation does not mean you HAVE to jump into Plan B. From your description on JFO it sounded like you had already moved to a Plan B....and now I see you are just living separately. How long have you been in Plan A so far? The anger about exposure usually doesn't last. Keep posting.

We've been in Plan A for about a month. It was going ok, other than the fact that he says he cannot sit in a room with me for more than 10 minutes and we were having conversation, superficial, albeit conversation.

What are the chances she'll actually keep up her end of the bargain and not contact him? I can clearly see where he is more of the pursuer than she, not to say she didn't do some pursuing.

I heard from another friend that my H told them as of 8/31 he was giving up the A and working it out with me. Clearly, that was not the case.

I'm still waiting for a phone call back from the MC. I think I'm still more comfortable with someone else there. Is that a good idea or not?

Hope

Hope, if you feel safer with the MC there....I think it's an excellent idea. I just wish the MC was more pro-marriage! Okay, since your Plan A has only been a month long....stick with that for a while longer....especially if it looks like this woman may step back. Who knows if she'll hold up her end....but I'll be saying my prayers that she does. Hang in there....is she does refuse to see him, he'll be having some big withdrawal issues and he may blame you for that. Just make sure not to LB....he probably won't let you meet needs. Continue to let him know how the A makes you feel. Good Luck....keep us posted. hugs.

Star*fish,

I put this post on the JFO thread, but I'd love your input as well.

I just received a phone call from my H (it's 6:40 a.m.) I can tell he was crying, something he's never done before. Even at his father's funeral he only shed 1 tear.

We are supposed to meet tonight to talk and were going to meet at a restaurant. I wanted a very public place since he was pretty hot tempered yesterday. I was actually afraid.

He made some comments to me:

1. I've hurt you too much.
2. I would have continued to see Lisa if she hadn't walked away.
3. I can't eat, can't sleep, my mind is going in 15 different directions.
4. I can't work.

I told him I understood what he was going through, that I too had these feelings at one time. I told him that I could forgive everything if I knew that we were working together as a team. He is important to me and I want to be there for him and support him. (I didn't tell him that I loved him, but rather tried to convey to him how important he was to me, my life and the children). I hope this was ok, but it seemed like he needed to hear it at this time.

I told him that I had a call into the counselor and that I wanted us to meet with him there to mediate. He also wants to get in to see him and I told him I would make sure that a time was set up for him and have the counselor set the time up.

So, it appears that the OW was true to her word and said she was done. Let's see if her actions continue, I hope so.

Is his behavior indicative of withdrawl??? What has your experience been with this??


I do believe our MC is pro-marriage. I know it doesn't seem like it, but I think my H has been very good at making him think that he get's too confused/conflicted when he's in the house. I think the MC did this just to give my H a little space, but I'll be asking that question when he calls no doubt.

I'll wait for your reply.

Thanks,
Hope

Hope4Best,

I ma not star*fish but I jump in while you are waiting for start*fish.

You are doing very well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Remember WH will tell you the same theme again:

1. I've hurt you too much.
2. I would have continued to see Lisa if she hadn't walked away.
3. I can't eat, can't sleep, my mind is going in 15 different directions.
4. I can't work.

You have to give him the same answer you did. It is very good. Yes, he is in withdrawal. He just lost OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , remember avoid LB at all cost !.

I could not stress it enough ... this is a crucial moment in your M. Don't take him as is, he has to willingly going to MC and work on M & be accountable for his money and time. Anything less than this you are asking for problem. Do not rush to welcome him back home, don't even ask him.

just my 2¢ -rh-

Redhat,
Thanks for the encouragement. I am trying to be so supportive (but not say ILY) and let him know that we have work to do, but I"m willing to do it if he is too.

I do not LB (which, surprisingly I have been very good about not doing). I think this is the one biggest change I have made in myself and quite frankly, I like it. I find myself alot less critical of others just in general.

He is very willing to go to MC. Actually, our MC is off today but is willing to see Ken on an emergency basis, he's going at 10:00 PST. Then we'll talk later.

It was interesting because today is the most honest I've seen my H. He made a comment about how he had to go to work, has trade shows. I asked if anyone else could do them for him and that's just not possible. I told him not to try to do too much, and that work should understand. His comment back was if they don't fire me. I asked why they would do that? (see he told me that his boss already knew and knew that was the reason why she left employment). He told me because he started to have an affair with an employee, although nothing happened until she left. Hmmm, I guess the boss didn't really know. Maybe that was why he was so enraged about my phone call to OW's STBXH? He works for her family business and they do business with my H. He told me that there are several members of her family that DO NOT like him and are going to pull their business from him because of this whole thing. Hmmmm. . . .

The next few days will be very interesting. . . .

Thanks again, support, advice always welcome.

Hope <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Question to all:

My H just told me that he is going into work, a machine blew up. Going for moral support for his employee. At the same time, he says he may speak to his boss about the situation.

My thought is that this is good because this is the first time he is being honest and upfront about the A. Should I take this as a good sign that he may start to be on the road to recovery??? I know I can't have any guarantees, but just looking for any signs. . . .

Hope

More advice now. . . . .

My H and I had a talk last night. Basically, he's in withdrawl from his OW because she said goodbye to him and he knows it's for good this time. I really hope so, but his actions were saying that as well.

Right now he seems to be very angry and resentful towards me because I called the OW's H. Is this a normal reaction? How long do withdrawl's last? Currently he's living with his mom and he seems to be in this phase that he has to separate from me indefinitely to work on himself and that he can't possibly be in any relationship until he finds himself. I'm thinking this sounds rather drastic -- I'd like to find a way to ease him back home in a couple or few weeks -- any suggestions?

Part of the reason I would like to ease him home is that I don't trust his mom. I think she was enabling him to continue the affair and providing him outs so that they could meet. I'm not sure she is supporting our marriage.

Our MC told my H that he is co-dependent -- I'm not really sure what that may mean, but I'm going to go get a book to find out. I'll be seeing the MC today hopefully, but if not, soon this week.

Right now I don't feel like I'm in Plan A or Plan B, but maybe Plan C???

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Hope <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

You wrote...

"Our MC told my H that he is co-dependent -- I'm not really sure what that may mean, but I'm going to go get a book to find out."

The concept of co-dependency and Dr Harley's view of it is explained on this website. Don't bother with a book - go to the relevant article. It's an approach derived from dealing with addiction problems. To the extent that an affair is an addiction your MC telling your H that he's co-dependent is possibly good.

BUT in essence the co-dependency concept is that people should detach from each other and be independent, not co-dependent. Dr Harley, working from a Christian perspective, thinks that life is about depending on each other and meeting each other's needs.