I have been working really hard on Plan A for a few weeks. H was been acting very bothered by the situation over the last few days. On Sunday, I asked him if he would consider sharing some of his thoughts with me for 10 minutes. To my suprise, he agreed and started talking about the A. We talked for about an hour. The fog is lifting and he is seeing how it is more realistic and less stressful to be with me than continue the A. I told him that in order for us to really work on things OW would need to be out of the picture. He said he understood that, but didn't make plans for the end. This is the closest he's been to reality for a while. On Monday night he posed the question of whether he could keep OW has a friend. I know the answer to that one (NO!) but I didn't shut him down. I told him some pros and cons to that situation and then he changed the subject before we could finish. This morning he gave me a hug and kiss and has been saying that he loves me back when I say it him.

He told me Sunday that he noticed changes in me and that he could see things so much better now that we were not fighting. I smiled at him knowing that it was the Plan A working. Now I think I need to do a super job meeting EN's and not LBing. This may be a critical turning point.

But how do I meet some EN's and LB's that are very difficult to overcome?
1) EN: financial support - H doesn't think I make enough money and we have too much debt. He also has a job but is relying on me to bring in more money. I have a Master's degree and like my job. If I leave my job and then he leaves me then I will be in total misery. I would rather cut back on expenditures than change jobs. Together we make a nice salary (almost double what my father raised a family of four on). The financial part is an important EN to him because OW is buying/paying for things for him that he and I cannot afford. Dr. Harley talks about how this need is usually more important to the wife, but not my H.

2) EN: recreation companion - H finds me boring even though the same things he does with OW he could do with me. I suggest things for us to do but he won't do them with me or make suggestions for what he would want to do. I feel like he is looking to me to entertain him, yet he doesn't like what I am providing. He likes to play tennis, run, and workout. I am not good at those things but I'll do my best, but that isn't good enough for him. OW is a fitness instructor and he likes that she can meet his same skill level in these areas. This is why he still wants to be friends with OW.

3) LB: my memory - H gets mad at me if I forget to do something or forget something he says. I cannot help it. It has always been an annoyance, but he would get over it in the past. Now he sees it as a sign that I don't love him. He is expecting some kind of perfectionism from me that I may not be able to deliver.

I really want to work on these things for H and my self-improvement as part of Plan A, but I am at a loss how to go about them. Please provide your insight on this matter.

firefly

firefly - Come on now girl, your H has to get real. You are doing fine in Plan A. He is still in the fog, expecting you to be Miss Perfect. Continue on your plan and consider doing some new fun stuff with H. Maybe you can take up scuba diving, sky diving, camping, or something different. Figure out something physical to do and invite him along. In the meantime try to realize that you have been doing well. Continue in Plan A and give it time.

I agree with Believer. Keep going forward. You may not be able to compete with OW on her turf, but you have a powerful advantage, H lives with you! You see him everyday and have a great opportunity to show him your love. He will see you meet more needs than OW. That memory thing is just a way for H to justify his behavior. Also, check out the book The 5 Love Languages. It may give you some more insight to H most important needs. Stay positive, R <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

firefly73,

Avoid talk R ... why ?. He is not ready and you got suck into it. WS is very manipulative/conning at this state. Don't beleive what you hear and only 50% what you see. (180 degrees).

You don't need to complete "the action" in order to compete with OW. You just need to try your best and convince WS that you could change. I would fillin ENs the best you can and draft plan B letter.

About his ENs ... how do you fillin it before your d-day ?, any good thing in the past that you could use ?. About your LB ... IT IS NOT YOUR LB, IT IS HIS ! unless you are Angry OutBurst, Disrepecful Judgement, DIsHonesty ... etc in reaction to his action, YOU ARE NOT (2x4). He is !, he is unresoanable demanding you to be perfect !. IMVHO, shrugged it of ... it is him the one that loss his memory, not you and YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. Is he emotionally abusive & controlling ?.

You know it is actually BreadLosserMen complex. He is actually envy you/resenting you having to be BreadWinnerWoman. He needs to put you down in order to feel good about himself. I would concentrate on Admiration and blow his @ss to the 7 heaven. LOL !.

As others saying ... you are doing fine.

-rh-

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

firefly,
your suppose to plan A...not turn into a stepford wife! give yourself a break and start being realistic.

if your H wants more financial security then he should get up of his butt and do something about it for himself.

if he expects you to be a camp councelor then he needs to get real...your his W! if he needs you to keep him amused...well just let's say he sounds like a sorry character to me.

as for your memory...write things down...just do the best you can but guess what!? if you forget somethings the world doesn't end!

look, we all learn to love our partners in life for the things they aren't as well as the things they are. good and bad.

it sounds to me as if you two have no problems that open, honest and frequesnt communication can't solve. but what do i know i'm just a dumb man! LOL but this dumb man can read between the lines and guess what...you sound like a keeper to me.

good luck.
coach

PS. Remember NO contact is the rule....never for any reason...anything less is a deal breaker!

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I can tell the fog is lifting, but we still have a long way to go. My self-esteem is so bruised that I really am trying to be perfect.

Coach - I'm not sure what you mean by no contact. We live together. I've only been in plan A for about three weeks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coach3530:
<strong>

PS. Remember NO contact is the rule....never for any reason...anything less is a deal breaker! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">firefly

I just need some space to vent and reflect. Perhaps someone can offer some insight.

Since H is still at home, I do get to see him quite frequently. I am thankful for that and we have a good time together. It is like things are almost back to normal. However, he still goes and sees OW during the day while I am at work and sometimes in the evening after he is finished with his work. Last weekend he didn't come home on Friday or Saturday night and then we had a wonderful day on Sunday and the rest of the week was good.

Today H is going to see a comedian with OW. She has had tickets for two months. I am a wreck over this for two reasons: 1) I don't want H out with OW on a date and 2) this is something I would love to see and would have asked H to go with me. However, H hates this sort of thing and would not have wanted to go. I asked him not to go with her. He said he didn't want to go but felt OBLIGATED to. Why can he go with her even when he feels obligated and he knows how much I am hurting.

Yesterday, I had a dinner at work that I asked H to attend with me. He said no so I didn't go. It made me very mad because he will go to something he doesn't want to go to with her but can't go to something with me.

Since we didn't go to the work dinner H did take me out to dinner which was nice. He knew I was upset about all of this and he talked about what he is feeling. First he said that he couldn't make up his mind because his gut and heart wasn't telling him to stay even though his mind was. He said that he feels like they are so much alike and have so much in common. He got talking about my new car and I made the comment that if he left I would not be able to afford the car payment. He said in a huff, "stop worrying about that, I am not leaving you". Whoa! I said that I would hold him to that and we both joked around a bit. Later he told me that I was much prettier than she is and that he would have never picked her if was actually looking for someone. Likewise, H is very different from what she usually likes in a man. But apparently looks have been put aside due to this amazing connection between them.

H continued to be very affectionate for the rest of the night. He is still going to the comedian tonight and said he would not be coming home afterward. He said he come home on Saturday, but I'm not holding my breath. I am just miserable about all of this. I am making plans to do things this evening to try to keep my mind off of this, but I can't stop focusing on this. Why is this bothering me so much? He keeps saying this isn't about either one of us, it is about him and making himself happy. But, I can't help feel that is a competition.

He still wants her to be friends even if he does end it with her. He wants her to exercise and work out with (she is a fitness instructor). I am not for that.

firefly

firefly - It is extremely hard to stay in Plan A when H is dating and taking OW somewhere you would like to go. Plan A should last several months. Hopefully you will make it without completely blowing it. Set a mental limit on a date for Plan B. It could be sometime in January. Then if he still has OW in the picture, time for Plan B. That's when you give him Plan B letter and tell him he is out of your life until he has NC with OW. The timing is difficult because you have to try with Plan A for as long as you can, while not LBing, and also not losing your love for H. Hang in there.

Thanks for your comments, Believer.

I made it through last night with a major crying spell but then I got it together towards the end of the night and went to bed about 11pm. To my suprise H did come home at 2:45am. I was very proud of my 180's. I didn't get up to acknowledge him when he came in the door. He came into the bedroom after a while and I opened my eyes while he changed clothes and got a pillow and blanket. I asked if he needed anything and he said no. He slept on the floor in the spare bedroom.

He got up at 7am and I got up about 15 minutes later. I offered to fix him breakfast and he declined. I didn't ask anything about last night just made some pleasant small talk. He asked if work had called and I said no. I asked if there was anything he needed me to do for him today and he said there wasn't. He left at 7:30 for work even though they hadn't called to tell him what time to come in. I never asked when he'd be home.

Overall, good 180's on my part and no LB's. He seemed angry and very distant. I'm not sure if he was feeling guilty or if he had such a good time he didn't want to be around me. He had said he wasn't coming home last night so I wonder why he did. Did he forget something he needed and why did he rush out this morning? Arrggh!

I just had to vent again. I am in the bedroom picking up his clothes from last night. These are not clothes he owns. She must have bought him an outfit to wear out on their date - dress shirt, slacks, tie, and belt.

You've got to kidding me. Now she is dressing my husband too! I hung everything nicely on hangers (although I wanted to burn it) and put it on the front of his dresser rather than putting them in his closet. I do not plan to say anything about them, but I want him to know that I know they aren't his. Am I crazy? Bad idea?

firelfy

firefly - You are doing extremely well under the conditions. Just continue like you are. Keep taking care of you. I built up my own little world by exercising, cleaning house to sparkling, rearranging furniture, painting, detailing car, etc. Well H is living with OW, but it gave me something to feel good about. Every day I look around and feel comfort that things are so nice. You won't get any of your needs met by WH so try to be with some friends, and keep posting here. Sounds like you are doing a great Plan A, keep it up.

On Saturday, I get a call from his work at 11:00am saying he was supposed to be at work at 10:00 am. He hadn't showed up. Then at 12:30 pm he comes in and locks himself in the spare bedroom for three hours. At 3:45 pm he leaves in his car and comes back at 4:15 pm. I watch all of this in astonishment. Very weird. We have dinner together with small talk. Then about 9:30 pm I asked him to go with me to get coffee. In route, he tells me that they had a fight on Friday night so that is why he came home early. Then on Saturday, he didn't go to work because he was debating the whole situation and thought about killing himself. (I am freaking out about this part.) H says he realized that wasn't the thing to do so he came home.

Conversation was the usual when he discusses us. He feels very little for me, but has extreme passion for her. H says that he has told her he loves her. This was very painful to hear. Overall, he isn't sure what to do because he knows it is more logical to stay with me and when he imagines his life in five years, I am in it. H says he needs a friend to talk to about all of this, but doesn't have any.

He is gone all day Sunday and I didn't expect him to come home that night, but he did. I get him something to eat and he answers his cell phone and starts talking with her while I am sitting at the kitchen table with him. I am furious. I nicely say I don't appreciate him talking with her in our house with me present. He seems unphased. The phone rings several more times and I ask him not to answer it. Then he follows me to the bedroom and while there calls his cell phone to retrieve his messages and listen to her messages. I am stuned he is doing this so blatantly. Out of anger I said something to him about what possibly could she have to say to him after spending the entire day together and how addicted to her was he that he couldn't get off the phone with her. I then apologized and he said that I didn't have anything to apologize for.

We went for a drive and we starts telling me about what they did together during the day. I don't want to know this. Then he says that he thought of me several times while he was with her and that bothered him (previously he said he never thinks of me). Then he asks me if I wanted to go on a trip to see his family for Thanksgiving. So we discuss visiting my family on Thursday and driving five hours on Friday to see his family and return on Sunday. I am floored by all of this. But it is good because his sisters are going to want to talk with him face to face about the A - very religious and strong morals.

What the heck is going on here? Why is he flaunting things with her right in front of me? This is painful enough I don't need to be reminded about it in my own home. And then he wants to go on a trip with me for the weekend. I am so confused.

My H used to be buddies with my uncle until the A started. Then H distanced himself. I asked my uncle to talk with him this week and try to rekindle their friendship...maybe it will help.

firefly

I have been smiling today and I want to share it with others. This morning H said to me that he is trying to make things work between us but it is hard. He says he knows that our marriage is more logical, but he does have feelings for OW. H said that since is brain is bigger than his heart he was going to follow his brain. (Not the most intelligent statement from such a smart man, but I'm going to take it and not complain-- I think the fog is lifting.) He also said the he loved me. And I didn't say anything back but nod compassionately. I am so proud of myself.

He offered to take me to lunch today and we talked about our upcoming trip to see my family and his for Thanksgiving. I am delighted...five days with him and no OW! At lunch I said nothing about the R and I was happy with myself. He is also taking a leave of absence from work and OW is a co-worker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He is planning to go out with the guys after bowling tonight (not a usual thing). I am anxious that he is lieing and he will really see her. But, there is nothing I can do about it, so I keep my mouth shut and no LBing.

I know this will be slow and he isn't ready for NC yet, but I am hopeful. More praying, more plan A'ing, and more 180's.

firefly

ff. I know it goes against the worldly wisdom, but I believe you are doing the right thing for the right reason. You have a realistic view of the situation and God will bless you and give you enough grace to endure the situation. As I said before you have the advantage because you see him every day. I truly believe love is more powerful than anything and that good is more powerful than evil. If you keep in your mind to fight evil with good, you will not go wrong. Just keep going back to God and trust Him for the outcome. I know from experience it is very difficult, but you can do it if you keep trying. Also, remember God is on your side and His desire is for your marriage to work and glorify Him. Keep praying! R12

firefly - Hang in there. I know it is awful going through all this. Most WS's do come back to the marriage. Your H is addicted and that is why he is acting so irrationally. Try not to take it personally and have a nice Thanksgiving and weekend with him.

firefly, I am in awe of you. I think you are an inspiration to or at least should be to others.

i hope everything works out for you

Thanks, Newbie, for your kind words. I wish I felt that good about all of this.

On Wednesday am we reviewed the bills and determined that with Christmas on the horizon we didn't have the extra money to go to H's family for a few days since we would need to get a hotel room. We did go stay with my family for a few days which was nice. We also spent the rest of the weekend together which was nice. H said he loved me very much which was great to hear. H did email OW several times over the weekend saying that he hadn't forgotten about her. Then H spent all day with OW on Sunday which really put me down in the dumps. He knew I was upset his plans because I cried and he sneeked out while I was in the shower. H knew I was still upset this morning and tried to be nice, even offered do spend time together this evening.

I am trying to get myself back in the moment and be upbeat and try to meet his needs. However, I feel down because he was with her all day yesterday and I was by myself. H did say he thought of me yesterday and he asked me to pray for him because he was confused and felt lost.

I am trying to hold on, but I am feeling so heart broken. Things seem like they are going well for us and would get even better if OW was not in the picture. I hate all of this.

firefly

Firefly - Keep up the good work and don't give up. It sounds like your H is at least a little out of the fog. You have been in Plan A for about 2 months, is that right? Hang in there a little longer. You always have the next one - Plan B. That's where I am and it is very peaceful - of course my WH is now living with OW. I had to file bankruptcy because he gives me no money at all and hasn't about 10 months now. He filed right after me, and now he has tons of money to spend on her and got to keep his 2 Harleys. He continues to blow all his money. I'm saving up mine for a lawyer or whatever is down the road. But anyway, hopefully you two will make it. Your marriage seems to have a good chance to me. My H was never nice and never wanted to do anything with me. So hang in there, keep praying and hoping. We're all on your side.

Thanks, Believer. I have been in Plan A for two months and I plan to stay in it as long as I am still seeing progress (which I am).

Things have been going well considering the circumstances. H helped OW move into her new apartment yesterday and will help her finish one day this weekend. I told him that I was concerned that he would sleep over there now she had her own place. H said that he wasn't going to move in with her but he did like spending time with her. Said though that he was feeling my love for him, seeing my changes, and beginning to get some feelings back for me. I vowed this week to really 180 well...no I love you's, kisses goodbye, find other things to do when he is home rather than sit beside him on the couch.

Good results so far. He was spent every evening with me so far and we even went out to dinner with my aunt and uncle last night (first time since the A started) and made plans to do it again next week. H initiated giving me a good night kiss last night and a kiss goodbye this morning. We are affectionate and he told me last night that he has fun with me.

I am trying to focus on the good things. But I still get upset that he is seeing OW still and now has the opportunity to sleep over at her new apartment. Trying to take things slow and be patient. I'll be focusing on decorating for Xmas this weekend if he goes off with her.

I was thinking that maybe since OW has her new apartment and is getting divorced, she will become more needy. According to an email she is already concerned that once she gets her own place that my H will leave her. Hopefully, she will be more demanding and she and H will have more fights. Her H did all the cooking and cleaning for the last 10 years so I cannot imagine her being too self-sufficient. She also has to get a second job to pay for the apartment. Hee, hee!

firefly

You're doing real well. Her having her own apartment is going to be a struggle for your H (and you). You are right, she will be needier. However you need to try to stay in Plan A for a little longer if possible, and then you can always go to Plan B. In the meantime you cannot do anything about H's actions, all you can do is make your marriage a very attractive alternative. Later you can force his hand by going to Plan B if necessary. Get your ducks in a row now. Your marriage still looks like it has a great chance. Hopefully you will be able to stick to the MB plan.