I feel like I am in a very muddy spot.

Brief history: Married 15 years, 3 kids. My wife had an affair starting in the spring. This was after many years of me being "addicted" to porn, (I stopped cold turkey in April when I finally saw how far away she really was thanks to a great web site and help from counselors and mentors). I never had any emotional or physical contact with anyone since our marriage. She felt/feels that my problem left her "out there", and she had "many" opportunities for "affairs" prior to this circumstance, and that the effect of my problem on her was the same as an actual affair. The OP was her 1st from high school. His marriage is a mess. After 3 or 4 times of going by the book and agreeing to no contact, she has maintained over the 3 weeks this Sunday that she is "serious" this time and has had no contact to the best of my knowledge.

Our Christian counselor suggested last time that we got together (45 days ago) as a couple that we try a "controlled separation" using a book entitled such. My wife and I worked to write a document and agreed to find an apartment to share. We agreed on the place, but after I told the landlord that we would take it my wife said. Wait, perhaps we can have some seperatness without spending all this money. It is not a good time for the kids. Lets find a way to do this without an apartment.

I want to save our marriage. I still love my wife and miss her. She says she still loves me, but not "the same way". This has gone on as a rollercoaster since April, and I still feel that we are at ground zero. I continue to care for her and obide by no anger, stop annoying habits, no demands mindset. I also continue to deposit love units, but I get nothing back. I am feeling resentment, and feeling very alone, even though she and I are still in the same household with our kids, and her anger has subsided somewhat. She asks a lot from me, and gives nothing back. At least that is how it feels.

Questions:

I have experienced withdrwal 3 or 4 times now. I know that until that subsides, she will not respond to me. Is continuing to give to her and love her with nothing in return wise at this juncture? My tank feels empty some days.

Plan A suggests spending a lot of time together. Plan B suggests essentially no contact. Where am I?

Is this space during withdrawl a good idea, or does that make it more tempting to jump back over?

Do I ask for evidence or accountability as to no contact? I do not trust her.

Also, I let her read my journal where I was processing the rage that I feel toward her especially since a recent incident a couple of weeks ago where she said she cut it off. I called her many things, but also asked God for guidence to seperate the sin from the sinner. Is that a setback or is that the equivalent of an angry outburst?

I am really wanting to do this right, but I keep running into dead ends, road blocks, slippery slopes, and utter confusion at times.

Welcome to MB. You have come to the right place. Read all the information on this site, especially Plan A. That is where you should start seeing that she has had NC for 3 weeks. As a Christian, you can get lots of your needs filled by the Lord. He wants your marriage to flourish. Tell your wife you want to rebuild a great marriage. She needs to write NC letter to OM, and let you know any passwords, account for time away, etc. When they are in the throes of an affair they all act the same, so don't take any of her words personally. Continue Plan A as long as you can. Then if there is continuing contact, go to Plan B. Keep reading and posting here, you will get lots of support and good advice from people who are going through the same things.

She is very distant right now. Doesn't want to be close at all. Pretty cold for the most part. She tends to bury herself in her work, and she is also having complications with a dental surgery. Her symptoms of depression are significant, but she will not see a councelor because this is the busiest time of the year for her work.

I know the book says 3 weeks of withdrawl, but "symptoms can last up to 6 months. This is awful right now, and I cannot account for all of her time. I am tired of the LB anger from her. When I look at her she doesn't even look like the person I used to know.

I wish that there was more I could do. I hope that I am doing everything rigth, or as right as I can under the circumstances. I pray that my wife listen to God, and open her heart to Him.

Sounds like you are doing everything right. Stay in Plan A and keep reading about it. Your wife could get anti-depressants from doctor. I got mine from family doctor and they have really helped. I'm taking Paxil and it started working after just a couple of days. But anyway, keep reading here and you will see your wife is acting like all of the others. They are usually cold, selfish, blaming their partner, and say they don't want to work on marriage. However if you are in Plan A that will change. It is very miserable for you, but you can get through it. Take care of yourself during this time. I cleaned the house to sparkling, remodeled the bathroom, fixed up the yard, joined a church bible study, detailed the car, worked on finances, and exercised every day. It helps you to get some satisfaction, because you probably won't get anything from her. Even though my husband is now living with OW, everything else in my life is much better, and I have something to feel good about. Hang in there, keep reading and posting. You will get lots of advice. Sometimes it is slow, you may need to switch to general questions board, as there are more people there. If you don't get many answers, post again and keep posting until you get the help you need. Don't be shy. Hang in there and don't give up.

Plan A it is. No contact seems to be where she has stayed for the last 3 weeks. She says that this is the hardest thing she has ever done. We had a conversation yesterday about a number of things. Honesty from her. How she "really loves" the OP. How she "loves" him different than how she "Loves" me. How she has no interest in sex at all with me right now. That we both agree that God exists, that Jesus is God, and that He needs to be first in our lives. I said I am good with staying in that place. She brought up the word "forsake" ref. to OP. I said that is what our marriage vows said.

Day to day. The 180-degree list has been helpful from a different forum on this site. Pray that she stay on stable ground, and that I stay there as well.

Don't feel bad about your wife's talk about how she "loves" him different than you. She is addicted to him and somewhat still in the fog. However a positive sign is that she is apparently really trying. My H had NC with OW 9 different times, but it never lasted more than 1 day. Finally I had enough and have been in Plan B for 2 months. He is living with OW now. I've gotten to the point where I can sympathize with him about how hard it was for him. Your marriage has a much better chance, because you can see that your wife is making serious attempts. WS's go through withdrawal, just like an addict, and during this time will not be very responsive to your efforts. But if you can keep it up it will be better for your marriage. In the meantime take care of yourself and do some things that will make you feel good about yourself.

How much of this have you done or read? Actually, until she is out of withdrawal, it is often better to save your energy on the meeting needs front. It depends, but I'm not sure I am qualified to say what it depends on. You don't want to get stuck in the rut of a "roommate" marriage, but you don't want to be stuck in Plan A with no response, either. I am not sure I can give you any guidelines to avoid either. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

After a date to a business christmas party that WS invited me to, and all went well at the party, I was wanting to talk. I broke a rule of being needy, and could not get myself out of a sad and lonily place. Comments from WS... I don't feel when I look into your eyes...I don't love you like a wife should love a husband...I love you with compassion, but nothing more. She is cold and distant. She had contact with OP 2 weeks ago Saturday by phone (admitted today), and recieved another e-mail from him on 12/08 that I discovered today. Her mindset of no contact is not calling him, but apparently e-mail from him is OK.

I hate this place that I am in. She says she needs distance to sort out her feelings; hates our house; blames me for not giving her the space she says she needs. Says that we had lots of problems prior to the affair. Can't see living life by never talking to OP again. Wants a new life.

It feels like she is gone, and just trying to find an easy way out. Says she is sorry for causing so much pain, and for all of what has happened. Said she is angry with herself for "going there". She had an angry outburst tonight before bed.

I am frustrated with the fact that I was so needy yesterday. I did not intend for that to happen. I went on a low dose of Zoloft Friday. Perhaps being this way was caused by that. I do not know.

I could not get out of the lonily place last night. I wandered the streets after midnight, and then when I got too cold, I wandered the hallways of the hotel until 2:00 am. I finally got to sleep only to wake up after an hour or so still unable to get a grip. I have never been that way before.

Where to go from here??

Welcome to the late night, wide awake club. Most BS's go through this and it is miserable. I could barely go to work, I was so tired all of the time. What helped me was working on myself and emotionally detaching. I started walking, cleaning the house to sparkling, working out at gym, remodeled bathroom, did yard, detailed car, joined a support group at church, took kids camping and fishing, etc. I had to make myself starting out, but it got easier. Then things started getting better, because it helped my self-esteem and I had something to feel good about. In your case start getting busy, but stay in Plan A. Keep reading about it - it is very difficult. And remember, you still have Plan B to go to. Hang on, it is awful to go through all this, but it will not last forever, and things do get better. I think John39 has some good links. Look them up on this board and check them out.

I have never been in a worse spot than right now. My wife is completely pissed off. Monday night, I was in a pretty good place. I came home and couldn't resist the temptation to snoop. I looked on her computer and saw a correspondence she is having with another man who is having an affair on his wife. She called me a desperate man, and demeaned my pouring my heart out to her on Saturday night to this guy. I went to boiling. I did not blow at her, but I did leave the house. Then a meddling neighbor called her at 3:00 am in the morning, and told her that I saw the e-mail. My wife is the one who then exploded after I had left and had gotten into a non-angry place. Last night I slept in a hotel room. She is still livid today. Says that she has had enough. Didn't get any sleep. I also discovered that she had contact with OP at least 3 times in last 3 weeks. He contacted her 2 times by e-mail, and 1 time by phone. I was angry that she defines no contact as she is not contacting him, but him contacting her is OK? I have apologized for violating her space. I also called a mutual friend, and said some pretty mean things about my wife. LB angry outburst. So I screwed it up again. I feel like I can not do anything right. Also I went on a low dose of anti-D. My emotional state was pathetic with that onboard. It did me more harm. Was NOT helpful. So I sit here in a complete mess. Worse than ever.

Hang in there. You have not been on Zoloft long enough. It takes about 22 days. You need to detach from the situation a little. You have to accept that there is nothing you can do to make your wife have NC. The longer she has contact with OM, the longer her withdrawal will last. All of her blaming you for everything is a result of her guilt. I really don't know what to tell you except stay in Plan A. But if you feel you are losing your love for her, time for Plan B. Hang in there and keep reading here.

I am off the Zoloft. What I had was a side effect, Emotional liability. I really am better off without it. I am getting a dose of my best anti-d this weekend by skiing. I know I will be much better, and ready for whatever comes along. I need to be away from her for some time too. Her mood swings and anger really drain me. I spoke with a good friend of hers today also, and she agreed that My wife is very emotionally draining whenever she talks to her. I agree, stay in plan A. I have not lost my love for her at all, which actually is amazing me sometimes.

Wow! how I can relate to you. I too have three small children & have been married nearly 15 years & now my husband is seeing a girl I think she's around 20. He actually talks to her every day & I think he may work with her .I think Im on the right track. It is so hard for me to just stand by & let some one take him away.We too discussed him moving & I am trying to keep him here for the kids sake ,I just don't see that working out. How are we supposed to make this work if he is out with her. I am having him wash his clothes seperatly from the family & I am using my own soap .I can't stand the thought of all this it makes me so sick. He is going out with her tonight & I just can't stand the thought that she is in our car! I could go on & on but was amazed at some of your posts I can relate!

An update, and then a question. My WS and I have come to an agreement to have some time apart from each other until March under the guidence of christian councelors whom we both trust. She has agreed to no contact, and I believe that there has been no contact for a least several weeks although I have no direct evidence either way. We implemented a controlled seperation that was worked out just between us with the guidence of the book "Should I Stay or Go". We are seeing each other at kids events, and talk daily about schedule and day to day things. She says she has made no decision, and is working through the book "Sacred Romance" and I believe is in a healing place. Yesterday she told me that she has made no decision and has given herself permission to not make a decision on weather to reconcile or not or who to be with I assume. She said she is detaching from both of us to get her heart straight. My councelor said to be in a state of grace whenever I am in her presence, and that she is in a state of self condemnation right now because of what she has done.

My question is how long do I wait for a decision? Is that what plan A is about is getting the WS to finally committ to working things out and starting a new relationship? Thanks all up to this point for the comments and prayers.