I am so confused. Some of you know my horrible situation--not that it is any worse than those you've endured. After my husbands second affair I tried plan A, and finally ended up in plan b. He could not cut contact with her. He did everything in his power to have his cake and eat it too.
Eventually we called it quits. He called it off because he saw what he was doing to me and could not continue to hurt me. He was unsure what he wanted in his life and couldn't keep hurting me.

So we ended the B and headed off to D. This was about 3 months ago. I just started dating. In fact, I've found a man that has a lot of potential and I am starting to care for him--but very early to say much of anything.

Today WS said he wants to try it again. He is willing to give up the OW and work on the M.

I am SO confused. I had finally detached from this horrible situation and was no longer depressed all the time. I was loving being away from all of the drama. Moving on feels good.

I do still love him but I really don't know if I could ever get over what he did to me. Nor do I think I could EVER trust again.

Where do we go from here?
And what do I do? I am so confused.
Thoughts, anyone?

Susan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SusanBT:
<strong>I do still love him but I really don't know if I could ever get over what he did to me. Nor do I think I could EVER trust again.

Where do we go from here?
And what do I do? I am so confused.
Thoughts, anyone?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the problem of dating before your are Dv. You are the only one could answer this questions. You have to make decision that you could live with ... no regret in the future.

My 2¢, I am going to start a questions to make you think more. You are still M to WH ... do you want M again ?. It is hard but what do you have to loose to give him a chance (*later on this). OP is not there yet by your own omission ... if you choose OP and not work what then ?. You choose potential good or potential problem ... it is your choice.

(*chance)-you know if he is willing and do the right thing, M restoration is possible. Better M than before A since both of you learned already the tools to insure the M would be fullfiling.

Now you should end contact with OP and talk to WS. Be honest with your situation and your feeling. Tell him "I do still love you but I really don't know if I could ever get over what you did to me. Nor do I think I could EVER trust you again." It is your task to convinced and helped me to get it over what you did to me. It is your task to earn my trust again.

NC letter follow by the procedure of how A should end is a must to start the process of reconsiliation. Seeing MC is the next step. If he follows it with actions you should send NC also to OP. When the time is appropriate you should tell your H about this fling.

I do suggest you counsel with Harley's or cerri.

-rh-

Thanks, Redhat.
I want to add that my dilemma has nothing to do with the person I am dating. This is in the early, early stages--it is a simple phone call to end the entire thing. And yes, WS knows.
The hard part is this:
I went through HELL three years ago because of his first A, and again this summer. He waffled back and forth, "ended" contact, resumed it, over and over again, we did a plan A, then a plan B and in the end, he just wanted his cake and to eat it to. I cried for weeks on end, could hardly function at work, lost 40% of my hair, my blood pressure skyrocked, and I thought I was going mad.
Then, about three months ago WS realized what it was doing to me once and for all and we decided to end it. At that time, we decided to close the door on our M because he was not in a place to even know what he wanted and couldn't put me through any more hell. I then went through the mourning and greiving of our marriage. I was very sad but did some healthy things--took up some hobbies, made some new single girlfriends to do things with and started to think about making a life for myself. Finally I stopped thinking about the A, my health has been better, and I feel a lot better.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Now I am supposed to go back to that horrible place?
I just don't know what to do. I can't even imagine going back to the obsessing. I can't imagine ever trusting him again. And here it is Christmas and there are no MCs anywhere to be found this week. I feel so lost and confused...

Susan,
I was wondering what ever happened to you. I know you feel confused right now because I am in the same boat you are in, kinda. I've gone through some rough times and wasn't sure at times if I wanted my WW to come home. But I kept remembering the 17 years we spent together and raising 2 beautiful kids. Even through all the hell I've been through I know I still love my W and want to spend the rest of my life with her. I know if I don't give us the best chance I can, then I'll always wonder if it could have worked out. My WW asked to come home Friday. She moved back in Saturday. I know she gave up the OM not because she lost feelings for him, but she hated the prospect of never having a family again. I'm hoping I can be the husband I should have been long ago and meet her needs so she will eventually love me back. If this never happens than at least I'll know I gave it everything I had...

I am by no means telling you that you should give your husband another chance. But, you are now in the drivers seat. You are stronger now and you have the tools and the support from all of us here. You are not alone, but the choice is totally up to you. Feel good about that. Know for once you are in control. He can't hurt you if you do not let him. I wish you the best. Keep us posted and if you need support, just ask...

SusanBT,

You live in BayArea ... are you open to call my church ? We have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> free ministery for couple. Talk to R Pastor, he is start using MB concept to help out. I hang around there too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . However you should get conseling w/ Harley's or Cerri.

This is my 2¢ . At this point there is no plan A/B ... tough love should be use. Don't get rid of your friend if it is in an very early stage and he knows exactly what he is getting into. Don't change anything for your WH ... nada. However you tell him your list of ammends and he should prove it to you that he follows it before you do anything. You are in control and this time you mean bussines. Also give him the deadline to meet the list.

You missed the meet the MBer here ... Orchid, Lulu, KS41 and others would be able to help you out for support.

-rh-

Susan,
Are you ok? Hoping you the best in the holiday season. Merry Christmas! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi again. Didn't have a lot of privacy over the holiday.

Lost, I am so happy for you. You'll have to let me know how things have been going for you. I can imagine it is very hard, yet a very positive thing. The fact that she hasn't lost feelings for the OM can be a good thing. That means she's not coming back "be default," but rather, because she chose to. And you know, when they are in the fog, they envision that they can create a little family even better than their previous one--so I suspect she's come back because she wants one with you!

As for me, I am more confused than ever. I am now spending most of my depressed and obsessing over my WS with the OW. He doesnt' plan to make the break for a few days.
Although I didn't think I needed to stop dating until he had ended all contact with the OW, I decided to because I knew I could never enjoy myself knowing that it would really hurt my WS. So today I told the man that I was dating that I would not be able to date him anymore.

It was shortly afterwards that I had my epiphany! I know this seems obvious to all of you but for some reason I just havn't seen it this way: Why is it that I end a relationship (total:2 dates!) because it hurts him, yet he has been able to carry on, date, sleep with, etc. this woman and EXPERIENCE "JOY" WITH HER!!!!
Why doesn't he feel uncomfortable with that. Where is his empathy for ME???

Folks, I am SO CONFUSED! When we decided to split for good, I had some rough times at first but then I was HAPPY! My life was no longer filled with drama.

I just don't know how I can go back there. Is it worth it? I might end up back here in two years! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: SusanBT ]</small>

SusanBT
(Quotes by SusanBT in italics)

WS wanting to come back can be a great thing if he is ready to make the changes that you require to save your M.

"I might end up back here in two years!"
"Why is it that I end a relationship (total:2 dates!) because it hurts him, yet he has been able to carry on, date, sleep with, etc. this woman and EXPERIENCE "JOY" WITH HER!!!!


However you are making changes in your life already when it sounds like you aren't sure if he is ready or not. You are right. Why should you stop dating or make any changes to your life without knowing truly where he stands. And better yet without knowing where you stand.

Are you ready to take back a man that had a previous A and caused you much hardship? You mentioned about how you grieved your marriage, and lost hair, and your blood pressure shot up. If you take WS back even if he is ready to change you will have issues to work through. So it helps to know he is on the team and want to wrok with you. To know that he isn't just blowing smoke. If he is really trying to come back without any changes. Without any agreement of what you require and expect then you might be setting yourself up.

My point is not to discourage you but to ask you to answer some question before you take him back. You have been down this road before so you know how he acted before. Is he showing you a differnt man? Is he convincing you that he wants a better M with you? a good M?

"He doesnt' plan to make the break for a few days"

Are you saying he doesn't plan to break up with Does this refer to him breaking off R with OW?
If so, how does this make you feel?

Maybe some of your confusion is coming from wanting to make things work with him and you not being sure if he is mon the same page with you. Or maybe your emotions are running wild or maybe for some other reason. It is good to know where the confusion is coming from and to feel that you have looked at your options good before you decide to make a plunge into this with your WS again. To even know that you are ready to let go of seeing OM before taking on WS. Because in the end the dicision you make, will be the decision you make. Will you have regrets?

How did WS communicate with you that he was ready to end Plan B? Has he said that he is totally cut off ties with OW and ready to make any changes necessary?

If it were me and I wasn't convinced, I would play him loosely continuing to date and doing a 180 until he is inspired to show me more. Also do less talking and more looking and listening.

Links that maybe useful
Detaching:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002122#000011

180 list
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000016

How A should end
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

I wish you the best.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SusanBT:
<strong>

As for me, I am more confused than ever. I am now spending most of my depressed and obsessing over my WS with the OW. He doesnt' plan to make the break for a few days.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Susan, you would be ABSOLUTELY crazy to take him back at this point. He has LOTS AND LOTS of work to do before that should ever happen! He hasn't even broken up with the OW yet! What changes has he demonstrated? Has he rebuilt the trust that he destroyed? He has done nothing! TALK IS CHEAP.

As far as you know, he just wants to come back because the OW gave him the bum's rush and he needs a new place to flop. Do you want him to come back just because its convenient or do you want him to come back he loves you and wants your marriage?

Susan, slow down. Tell him that you will certainly consider reconciliation in the future *IF* he breaks up with the OW and shows you a WORKABLE, FEASIBLE PLAN to restore your marriage. TELL HIM NOT TO BOTHER YOU UNTIL HE HAS BROKEN ALL CONTACT WITH THE OW FIRST. That should be the FIRST step for you to even BOTHER with him.

He then has to DEMONSTRATE trustworthy behavior for some time. Otherwise, you are just BEGGING to have your heart broken AGAIN AND AGAIN. You should not trust him, Susan, and would be crazy to take him back until he has proven himself.

Please take every precaution, Susan, because this is a very dangerous situation in which you have LOTS to lose if its not handled right. You have been through HELL for the past 2 years and there is absolutely no reason for a replay. NO REASON.

Terms for taking back a WS from Cerri:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=024255#000006

Susan,

I hope you click on the link that MelodyLane sent you on conditions for taking the WS back. My story is not going too well right now, but my WW is home. The statement I remember the most from someone else's post was that plan B was supposed to help you prepare yourself, make you stronger so when the time comes when your WS does come home you will be prepared. WW came home with the list of conditions I set for her. She hasn't complied with any of them. I see that this is probably going to be a long, drawn out process and I hope I'm prepared...

If you let your WH come home, please be ready. Please don't take him back until you are. You seem like you are a mess right now and I know how you feel. But that is what plan B was supposed to be for. You should take the time to work on yourself and quit obsessing about your husband. I know this is easier said than done. Just remember he is the one making the mistakes and you don't have to take him back unless he is prepared to work and you are ready to deal with him. If you are not ready, maybe you should sit back awhile and figure out what you really want. Get yourself together. I read this book by Dr Phil. I really don't like the guy, but he has some good points. He said in his book, you are responsible for making yourself happy. No one else can do this and if you are letting someone either make you happy or sad, than it isn't true happiness. You have the power to take control of your life and make yourself happy. I know that is a very difficult task. I haven't been able to do it, but it sure makes sense. I am happier now than before I read the book though, so I know it has helped some. Try to be happy and realize, your WH must still have feelings for you or he would not want to come back. The biggest thing is sifting through all the fog and finding the true feelings somewhere buried within him. I wish you the best and hope you keep us posted...

Susan,

Is your divorce still proceeding? I hope so. If it is not, get it moving again. Why? Because your H hasn't even left the OW and you don't know if he will stay away from her or not. What you need from this man is deeds and action NOT words and promises.

I am a strong believer in marriage as you may or may not know, but I am an even stronger believer in DATA. What does the DATA tell you? If he is still not broken off things with OW, things have NOT changed. Even if he does, he has had two A's and the only question I would ask YOU is has the DATA indicated he has changed in any way??

If it has not, then you would be very foolish to continue to be married to this man. It is has, then you need to consider the new DATA, but the divorce should continue. If it is true that you two are MEANT to be together, you could remarry, but again only if the DATA indicates that he has changed.

So, before you alter the current course (divorce) examine the data and then make your decisions.

God Bless,

JL

Susan,

Its been a couple of days. Just wondering if you are ok. Life is good with me. I think W may leave again though. She isn't happy, too much in withdrawal. I guess she wasn't prepared to come home. Maybe your WH is in the same boat. Just don't do what I did and accept him back until both of you are ready. Again, remember you are not alone. We all have to stick together and work through this. You have the greatest support group in the world right here with MBs.... Let us know how you are doing, we do worry about you. Maybe I shouldn't say that but it is true. There are so many people on this site that have helped me and I know they worry about me. So, again, know that you are not alone....

Susan BT
Where are you? What's been going on? Are we discussing this without you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Where are you? What's been going on? Are we discussing this without you?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, I was out of town for a few days and then had the privacy thing going again. And I am very depressed.

WH has not yet left the OW yet but is feeling a lot of urgency to settle things once and for all. I agree that I cannot believe a thing until I have SEEN ACTION.

But I am even conflicted about whether I want to end it even if he came home on his knees. When I actually move on with my life I finally feel better. This sudden discussion about giving it a try has taken me to the bowels of depression once again. I wish I could figure out why he has such a hold on me. I know a lot of it has to do with the fact that we've been together for so many years. There are so many things I do love about him. I feel so comfortable with him and he knows me so well. This is not my first marriage either.
Our divorce procedings never started. I think I always wondered if he would come to his senses. I think that has been some kind of security blanket for me through all of this.
You're right, Lost, I should be taking control of my life. But that is a scary thing knowing that he can so easily take the whole thing and turn it upside down with one of his little hypothetical phone calls. I can't understand why I am getting so derailed by this.
I did more or less end the relationship with the man I was dating, even though I shouldn't have. I just felt so conflicted about this I couldn't really enjoy dating any more.
I made a list of several things that had to happen before WH could return. Most of them were things that were about character. That is the scary thing about it. And the only way to know if he has made those changes (if they are even possible) is to look at that DATA! So far it all points to the same old thing.

"I wish I could figure out why he has such a hold on me. "

Susan only you can know what you are holding on to with WS. It may seem that you can't get a grip on it. it ma seem that the hold is too great to deal with but you can.

You mentioned a lot about fearing different things in your post. Maybe you are more afraid than anything. Maybe your fear is what you are holding on to. It may be causing you the confusion about what you really want at this time.

If you don't deal with your fear then you may make a decision out of desperation. Which may in the long run cause you more harm than good.

It seems that you broke Plan B for WS and he is still with OW. Had you maintained conversation with him during Plan B? As it seems right now would it benefit you to accept WS? Do you know where his desire to come back is stemming from?

If he hasn't left OW, is he wanting to come back to be a cake eater? As noted by Dr Harley in Plan A and Plan B if you accept WS without having conditions in place for recovery and TOTAL seperation from WS then BS is better off staying in Plan B.

Is there a counselor you can talk to to help you sort out your fears and concerns so that you can make the best decision for you? Wishing you the best.

Susan,

If you are very confused right now, then let this feeling keep you from doing anything rash. Does your husband have relatives close by that he can stay with for awhile. It may be better for both of you for him to live on his own and you begin slowly by dating. If you eventually feel safe with his actions, then let him move back in. He has the burden of proof that he's serious about reconciliation. Let him commit to you before letting down your guard...

My WW left again. I have let her take me down the wrong road twice. I won't do it again. If you get nothing else from this post, just make sure you are ready and he is ready. Neither me or my W were ready and it hurts. It not only hurts me and her but our 2 beautiful kids. We seem to be adjusting ok, but the pain of her leaving still lingers on... Be careful!!! Keep us posted and know you are not alone...

Hi all,
Lost, I am very sorry to hear that your WW has left again. I know you had reservations about it, and your instincts appear to be correct. A friend of mine recently told me that it was important to know that I did everything in my power to save my marriage so that even if it didn't work, I would know that I had tried everything and have no regrets. At least that is something you have now.
As for me, things remain the same. If WS is making moves to end contact with the OW, I don't know about it. I am wondering if this is the case though. He seems invested in telling me he is alone when he calls. I really would like to know, though the emotional distance is very peaceful. When he calls I get very conflicted feelings--like I miss him and want him, and that I also want him as far away from me as possible! Go figure. But that is what Plan B is supposed to protect me from, right?
Free asked me about my Plan B. Well when we decided to split for good, we ended it and were heading to a divorce. We continued to talk as friends, though it was apparent we both missed each other.
I know that the best thing to do right now would be to start Plan B again. But the problem is that I just DON'T KNOW if I want to save my marriage. I just don't know if I will ever get over this this time, and quite frankly, I doubt I will. Isn't that sad?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SusanBT:
<strong>I know that the best thing to do right now would be to start Plan B again. But the problem is that I just DON'T KNOW if I want to save my marriage. I just don't know if I will ever get over this this time, and quite frankly, I doubt I will. Isn't that sad? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone has that doubt and this is a life time decision. You have to see if you want to work on M if WH is totally repentance and willing to ammends you the right way. If the answer is no way ... then don't even bother doing plan B, just NC then let it Dv. If the answer I don't know or I might ... then you owe it to your self to try this again to earn your way out of this M. By then you could move on w/ or w/o your WH.

Remember in-love could be recreated with 4 gifts of love. Both party should be willing to do it and both party should let the other one fillin ENs.

Next time join us in SFBayAreaMBer ... it is fun and helpfull.

-rh-

Hi SusanBt
Glad to see you posted. How have you been?
I read about what you said about WS. But how are you doing aside from him?

As it pertains to WS have you figured out what is causing your confusion and fear?

You talked a lot about that in the other post. What do you think now?


"If WS is making moves to end contact with the OW, I don't know about it."


Do you feel that WS should show you so that you do know what he is doing, that he wants to change the future between you?

"We continued to talk as friends, though it was apparent we both missed each other. "


Of course during Plan B there is suppose to be no contact. Was there specifications given to WS from you about what you wanted for him to return? It seems that there is a part of you that wants to take him back. If you should right now when he isn't showing you that he wants to change you may be putting your heart out there again for him to trample over it. However, if you decide that you want to save M there will be hard work for you to convince him that you mean buisness because it sounds like he wants to be a cakeeater. Whatever you should decide I really hope that all works out in your favor. Please post when you can. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />