In October I found out my H was having an affair. At that time he said he wanted out of our marriage, that he just didn't love me anymore. My two married sons confronted him just before Thanksgiving. They told him if he left me for any reason he would never see his grandchildren again. He even wanted to know what they would do if he left me for OW. Same reply.

He then said he would try to make the marriage work. We visited family out of state for Christmas. I think he was saying goodbye to his parents and siblings.

We arrived home Tuesday night. He couldn't get to her place of employment fast enough. She is a bartender, and professional mistress.

He is back at lying, and sneaking around. We tried to talk last night, but he got angry and went to bed. I think he's trying to figure out how to leave. We have been married over 25 years. We have 3 children, and 4 grandchildren with another on the way.

I am at a total loss as to what I should do. He keeps telling me that no one can change like I have, so fast, and that he is sure the changes will not last. I keep telling him I'm doing the best I can, he just keeps saying he doesn't think he can love me again.\\

BTW, our intimate life has remained very active. He said that was never the problem. He has not been with her since the boys confronted him.

While we were away he even applied for a job and said he wanted to move. When we got home, he went right back to his old ways.

Help!

Sorry you are here, but glad you found this place. It will really help you. You will get lots of support and great ideas. Have you read all about Plan A? That's where you can start.

You will find out that if you stick to the program, things will get better. He may be having some kind of mid-life crisis. My H has been living with OW, but I am doing fine, thanks to marriagebuilders. Hang in there.

I've been applying plan A almost since the day I found out. I ordered Surviving an Affair online, and as soon as I got it started working plan A.

It's this roller coaster ride that's making me crazy. He refuses to even look at the book, go to a counselor, but claims he is working on our marriage. I have a huntch he was with OW yesterday, he was in way too good of a mood after stopping at the bar where she works. He avoided me all day, called and said he was going to lunch with a friend, they just happened to go where she works. Then he called and said he was stopping for a drink. What I've been doing in the past is showing up at his favorite hitching post everynight. Last night he called before I even had a chance to leave, he was already there. I don't want to go to the bar everynight, and I especially don't want to see the interaction between him and the OW. I want to move out of this town, and work on saving our marriage. He claims he wants that too, but his behavior has me so confused.

I've turned him over to the Lord. I will continue to work on the things I need to change, but I need to let go in some ways too. I told him the other night that I was doing all I could and now he is the one who has to choose. I said I am going to continue to do all I can to make our marriage better, and he had to choose what he was going to do. I got no reply.

I want the man I married back! He has changed so much in the past year. I know part of it may be my fault, but some of the life style changes are his choice. He also had a stressful time with his job last year, he almost got fired, and last spring said he didn't care about anything anymore. That's when he began to change. Then I went on a long trip, 6 weeks. My father has terminal cancer and my cousin and I felt he and his sister needed to see one another after 29 years. That's when the affair started. He encourged me to go and got angry every time I considered not going. I came home to a stranger. The day I got home my daughter-in-law went into labor, I was at the hospital all night. The next night I went with him to his favorite place and someone called me there and told me about his affair. He admitted to it the next day. At first he asked me to let him go, I said I wanted to try to save our marriage. He agreed, and even apologized. Now he says he never said he was sorry.

I don't know if this is a mid life crisis or if he is having a nervous break down. In 25 years when he has been under a lot of stress, he has done some pretty bad things. This is the first affair to my knowledge. His father has had numerous nevous breakdowns.

I think that I'm like most others in my position, I want the nightmare to end today.

They almost always come out of it and back to the marriage. In the meantime, there is nothing you can do, unless OW is married - then tell her H. Other than that it is a waste of time to try to separate them.

Make the changes you need to make and stay in Plan A. My H was gone 3 months before he wanted to reconcile. He is still with OW. What helped me most was getting busy in my life. I started exercising, joined a women's support group, cleaned the house to sparkling, organized all my papers, bills, pantry, painted the house, detailed the car, remodeled bathroom, redid the yard and on and on. It gave me something to feel good about. Every time I started thinking about what "they" were up to, I just found something else to do in the house.

Hi Afraidnconfused

I understand where you are coming from. One of the first things I'd like to say may help you is to try to face being Afraidnconfused.

I know this is difficult. But for many BS (betrayed spouses) the fear of what is happening to you can sometimes cloud your judgement when you are at the a time when you want clarity. Though it seems that you have hard obstacles in front of you it is possible that things can turn around.

Dr Harley notes that even while an A is going on it is possible that the WS wants to save the M. No guarantees, but possible. However during an A the WS is in a love-drunken fog that may cause them to be self deluted. So while your husband is adamant that he doesn't want the M the A is addictive and he may be making decisions based on the current addictive nature of the A he is in. I saw that you were getting the book "Surviving an Affair". I would admonish you to read, read, read and post for support.

I wish you the best. Hang in there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Afraidnconfused this link may help you also:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=000940;p=1

AnC: Check out the Plan A links in the quote below. I think they will help you. However, it may be time to consider Plan B. The right time for Plan B usually feels like it is too early. Harley says: "When they are trying to decide between you and the OP, it is time for Plan B. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Since my last post so much has happened. After several failed attempts to implement plan B, at last on the 30th he left for the OW. For weeks he would promise to stop seeing her, and go right back to her. My youngest son and his wife, along with their two sons, live with us. They were the first to confront him about making a choice. They said they just couldn't live with the stress. He "went for a drive" that night to think, must have been a long drive since he didn't return until 6am. I knew where he was, but my son refused to believe it. He told us he wanted to try to save our marriage, he agreed to having no contact with her. Of course they started up again, he started sneaking around again.

On the 18th of this month the kids and I went to church, WS went golfing. I thought we may be gone all day, but we changed our minds and came home early. Our church is 50 miles away. Later that afternoon the kids were returning a video and saw that he was at the usual place they went, as was she. My daughter in law confronted him, he made up some story. He came home about a half an hour later, drunk. We told him we would not tolerate this anymore, no contact meant NO CONTACT! Again....he had to go for a drive to think. My son decided he had to know for himself where his father went, and sure enough saw the OW leave her house to go pick him up where he left his vehicle. He got his brother and the two of them went to OW house and tried to get someone to answer the door. No luck.

At 5am I parked down the street and waited to see if they both came out, which they did. I followed them to where his vehicle was parked and pulled in behing hers. I told him it was clear he had made a choice and he needed to let his children know.

During the long night my son and I made a list of conditions he would have to meet to return to the home. Since he refused to come home and talk to us, we brought the list to him at work with his bosses permission. He read the list, handed it back to me and said "See ya". We turned away and headed for my car. He was shocked and yelled out "why do I have to make the choice?" We left.

Throughout the day he kept calling the house, I would not talk to him. In any event he agreed to the conditions. They were simple really, break it off with OW, write her a letter, we will approve the letter and have it delivered. Then agree to move to another state, go to marriage counseling, church, and no golfing until councelor feels he could resist her. That was last Monday. He was sullen and depressed until Saturday, so I knew he had made contact. Our first marriage counceling appointment was the 27th of Jan. He went, but was not happy. He also went to church the Sunday before, again not happy about it.

On Thursday he went to her place of employment openly, he had been hitching a ride with others. My oldest son saw his vehicle there and called me. He came home about a half an hour later, I'm sure he was sick of us calling his cell phone and calling the golf course. He told me then one of us had to leave, he just could sort things out when he was around me. I said I wasn't going anywhere, I didn't do anything. After some screaming and yelling on his part, he backed off. Only because our kids came home. He decided to leave, but tormented me further by changing his mind and saying he wasn't sure. I slept on the couch. The next day he came home from work at 10:00 am, asked if he could take our 5th wheel camper and the truck to live in. I said that was fine. He made up a story about where he would be, the camper and pickup are still parked at his place of employment. He has not left her side except to golf since then. I told him if he was with her there was no way he could work things out. He simply does not care.

Now, I'm not real sure how to implement Plan B. I've been a SAHM for 25 years. He said he would give me his paycheck every payday because he doesn't want to mess up his credit. I don't know if that will last. I told him not to come here without calling because I didn't want to be here if he came. Should I get some kind of legal document drawn up about the paycheck? Should I open a seperate account so I have money in case he decides to wipe out the account? I have always taken care of the finances, he had no idea where we were at until I printed out the budget for him.

There are many people praying for us, and for him. Thanks for tolerating my long post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Afraidnconfused:
<strong>Now, I'm not real sure how to implement Plan B. I've been a SAHM for 25 years. He said he would give me his paycheck every payday because he doesn't want to mess up his credit. I don't know if that will last. I told him not to come here without calling because I didn't want to be here if he came. Should I get some kind of legal document drawn up about the paycheck? Should I open a seperate account so I have money in case he decides to wipe out the account? I have always taken care of the finances, he had no idea where we were at until I printed out the budget for him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is soo much material about plan B .. read up also SAA section of plan B.

Don't need to get legality involve yet .... you don't want to open a pandora's box.

Yes, you should get separate account and transfer the needed amount to run your household out each time so there is no bounced check.

-rh-

This thing just seems to go from bad to worse... On Monday I stopped by to give my H some mail. He accused me of all kinds of things, he said he heard I wasn't paying the bills and was spending all his money. He threatened to cut me off finacially. Later that day I provided him with proof I was in fact paying the bills as we had agreed upon, but he is still hedging on paying me any support. He says he needs spending money, I wanted to say too bad but didn't. So now I'm not sure what to do.

Afraid....

Sometimes I think there might be more going on than an affair.... and this is one of those times.

Your H is certainly drinking with his "bartender", but have you ever considered that he might be "using" other substances as well?

You'd said your H had done other "bad things" in the years you've known him.... what were those things? Drugs?

If his affair involves getting high with alcohol use and/or other substances .... this makes the issue of returning to the marriage and recovery much more difficult.

Do you think this is a possibility .... your H is not only having an affair but might be using something else to get high too? And the "bartender" is providing him with .... booze and other things?

Has his personality completely changed? Are you finding he is spending money on .... ?? what??? Has he depleted your financial accounts? Savings?

"He says he needs spending money" .... hmmmmmmmm
Pep

<small>[ February 13, 2004, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I too believe he may be using drugs. He is living with OW now, since Jan 30th. The other bad things I don't want to post, but suffice to say it had to do with my daughter from my first marriage.

I just found out today that my daughter in law gave him $300 cash while I was on my trip last fall, she thought she owed us money for horse hay.

So far he hasn't cleaned out any accounts, he want his credit protected. But this gal gives him money and whatever else his little heart desires. He did say he was looking into getting his credit card balances consolidated. He has a rich friend who would do that in a heartbeat. Then he thinks he would have more spending money.

His personality has completely changed, and his mood swings are terrible. He brought his paycheck to the house, but I think it was because he wanted to look around. My daughter in law said while I was getting the credit card balances he looked in the fridge and pantry and then looked around the kitchen, dining room and living room. He was acting very strange. I asked him if he was going to file for divorce, he said he didn't know what he was going to do yet, but he would let me know. I said wouldn't a legal separation be better, he said I don't know. I also asked him if he had considered spliting the budget, which means I would get half his check and he would have to pay his own bills. He said he just hasn't had time to look it over. I really do believe something is up.

He just acted stupidly, as any young man may when suddenly he has a 4 year old daughter.

Today he was sullen and depressed. He was also very agreeable to the splitting of the budget. This is how we learn one day at a time it would seem.

I wonder if things are falling apart for him with OW. Only time will tell.

Well, another bump in the trail. It turns out I'm alergic to just about all anti-depressants. So those are out.

Today, after WS agreed to "split" the budget I attempted to get him to sign an notirized agreement just verifying our verbal agreement. He refused. He can, and I think will, pull the financial rug out from under me at any time. He told me I needed to get a job. The he lied about talking to a friend of mine who told him my doctor said I was unable to work at this time, he asked my why. I told him I was not emotionally stable enough. He said that was just an excuse, I was faking it. He said if he changed his mind about anything, including our financial agreement, he would let me know.

He is making it very difficult for me to have no contact. I was told I should get an injunction, which would force him to pay spousal support. I'm not sure what to do, but right now he is liking this little game he is playing. I'm not sure if I should just have an attorney write him a letter explaing to him what his legal obligations are. I want to save this marriage, but he says he just doesn't see how that's possible. WELL how could it be with him living with OW!! Another question, since he is open living with OW should I start forwarding his mail there?

In my opinion, you need to see an attorney to protect your financial interests. Your H will continue doing whatever he wants as long as you are depending on his good will to give you money.

It will be impossible to go to Plan B.