I want to move far away. I don't want to stay here anymore, with all his cr** still here except his clothes and a handful of personal items. Even his chore coat is still hanging in the basement. Everytime I walk in the living room, I see his grandmother's rocking chair. I see the bookcase he built in junior high. This place means nothing to me - in fact I detest it - he talked me into moving out of the town that had become home, and then abandoned us in a town in which I have no connections.<P>How do other people manage to move across the country? Tim mentioned that his ex-wife moved out of state with their kids with little or no warning to him. In my state, I can not even move out of state without my H's permission, even though out of state is as little as ten miles away. He can go anywhere he wants and I would be forced to send the kids for visits; he can, and does, work out of state, though he lives in this state.<P>Why does the betrayer get all the control - he can force visitation, but only has to see them when he feels like it. He doesn't have to take care of them when I need him to, even if I need him to because I am taking one of the children somewhere essential. He has to pay child support, but not only does he end up a lot better off financially than he was before, he doesn't have to worry about emergencies - if the plumbing breaks, if a child breaks her glasses, it is all my responsibility. He has a fixed amount to pay, with no risk involved. Shortly before he left, we bought a high mileage car, all we could afford, which of course has had a number of problems. Shortly after he left, he bought a relatively low mileage car, probably paying at least twice what we paid for the car that was "all we could afford" a few months previously.

Hugs Nellie-<P>I wish I could answer your questions but I can't. But I was wondering..............if you move far away do you want company? Lol, the reason I ask is I told my H that is what I want-to get the hell out of here-where I have to watch over my shoulder for the OW all the time - just so I don't put myself in a bad position :-( I wonder if you and I could trade houses? IN all reality Nellie-I am sorry you feel so down and out. It does suck what you are going through but I don't believe that the betrayers get all the good out of the bad they do. You may just not be aware of what financial situation your H is getting himself in to-it may jsut look rosy from the outside. What is important is that you have yourself and the kids. I know you feel miserable-I do too. But that poor man won't have all the precious memories to brighten his down days-and trust me he will have plenty of down days in his future. I believe what goes around comes around and some day some way some where your coin will flip and you will be the one smiling!!<P>Take care of you and remember that those you don't even know are praying for your happiness and well being <P>HUGS<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

nellie,<P>Hi, I was thinking about you today and wondering how you were. Oh, the moving thing...I wanted to do that on Christmas Eve when I had my meltdown...just get in the car or on the bike and ride and leave all this [censored] behind and NEVER look back.<P>Seems like we will never feel better, again, but I know this isn't true at all. Just the holidays gave some of us a bigger kick in the butt that others. I think you and I got kicked pretty hard.<P>My resolution is for a happy year and I am determined to have it, despite what might or might not happen with this relationship. Who said it yesterday- we can't let <B>ONE</B> person in our lives - our S's - be in control of our happiness. Ugh-ugh, I am not gonna let it happen without a fight!<P>Diana told me about a book and I bought it yesterday and am going to recommend it to you. It is called "Learning to Let Go" by Melodie Beattie. It has daily meditations that are based on 12-step programs and the readings are VERY appropriate to our situations. It is not about letting go of our marriage, but letting go of those things we can not change or control. Please consider buying this book as a gift to yourself.<P>Wishing you the very best....<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Roll Me Away (edited January 01, 2000).]

Heartache,<BR>Sure, I'll be glad to trade houses .<P>I wish I thought that some day he would regret what he has done - maybe he will, but that day may not be until he is in his 80's. If his father is any indication, his family has a history of being able to go through much of their lives without emotion. His father paid little attention to my H and even less to his grandchildren. Then, last Christmas, he sent each one of his grandchildren and individual Christmas card, much to everyone's surprise. I don't know what is going on this year - whether he is sick or if it is something to do with the OW - but the kids got no card from him at all, even though a couple of months ago he sent a nice letter saying he wanted to keep in touch.<P>Roll Me Away,<P>I wish I could say that I wouldn't let him be in control of my happiness, but, unfortunately one person can be in control of our happiness - he is largely in control of my financial situation, he can force me to be away from my children, he may even be able to force me to put the kids back in school, he can prevent me from moving. I married someone who I thought had a similar childrearing philosophy - now I am married to someone whose philosophy is very different and who doesn't give a d*** what I believe. I no longer have much control over my life. People have said that I am better off without him - but he is not gone, he has just been replaced by an alien who wants to run the kids lives according to his agenda. For several years it has been hard to even get an opinion from him concerning child-rearing issues - now he is full of opinions, and mine don't matter.

nellie 1, you're facing a new life. there are countless little as well as difficult problems to address. you're must also deal with the emotional challanges of becoming a new you. you may no longer be so and so's wife. now you are you, again. you have to get to know yourself again. in every divorce, both people have to deal with a lot of crap. a lot of it isn't fair. i suggest you look around, start picking up the pieces and filling in the blanks and start building a new life. keep in mind, building a life doesn't mean setting around thinking about. think literally of building a life. join a church, join a club to share whatever you're interesed in with like minded people. many churches have single parent/ singles activities. they can be a lot of fun. <BR>nellie, you have to make it happen. when you do, this time it doesn't have to be the work of an inexperienced builder. you've learned a lot from your recent experiences. now, you know what you're doing.<BR>i haven't read your whole story so forgive me if i don't know what i'm talking about. i guess i'm assumming you're about to get a divorce.<BR>good luck!!

Nellie, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get yourself some counseling! This is NOT something you want to go through without help. It is NOT an admission of failure to seek help. You are navigating a minefield, and a good counselor will give you a helping hand through it.

Dazed,<BR>What good is counseling going to do? If he is going to desert the family, all I am asking is that he lets me raise the kids by myself, according to the values and goals that I shared with the man who used to exist.<P>I went to two counselors alone, and three with my H. The first one told my H that it wasn't a counselors job to help couples decide whether to divorce, the second admitted that he and his wife had divorced after 30 years because he couldn't be organized enough (yeah, right) and the third told him he should come right out and lie to the kids about his relationship with the OW. The first counselor (a psychiatrist) I went to agreed that I didn't "need" to take drugs - he is the only one I have seen with half a brain - the other one was nice enough but was singularly unhelpful - after several sessions she said, "You wouldn't want him back, would you?" One book I read strongly recommended against both members of a couple getting individual therapy with different counselors, because it is so hard to find one, finding two decent counselors is almost impossible. For the most part, happy, normal people don't become LCSW or such-like - I have known far too many people who went into the field so they could "help" people who are happier than they are, as Tom Lehrer said.<P>frankie,<BR>The last thing I want to do is spend even more time away from my kids. What I want to do is be able to move somewhere where I can afford to live without having to be away from them - it is not that I mind working part-time if there were two of me - but raising six kids and homeschooling is a full-time job by itself. Right now I have all the disadvantages of being married, in terms of having to deal with someone else's opinions on how to do things, and none of the advantages. It would be bad enough if that someone else was emotionally invested in our relationship, and therefore willing to compromise. It is one thing to share childraising with a spouse, and quite another to share with an angry, depressed man and an OW who is a complete stranger, and whose major concern seems to be that my kids don't embarass her or cause her any problems.

Nellie:<P>Anyone who can quote Tom Lehrer is A-OK in my book. <P>I suggest counseling because your pain just SCREAMS out from the page. I differ from most people here in that I don't think there's a lot of hope that your H will wake up. He has behaved abominably, there are no excuses for what he's done, and frankly, you don't deserve to be treated like this.<P>But he IS treating you like this, and you may need some help in dealing with your anger, so it doesn't consume you. Sure, you have a right to be angry. But you also have a right to be HAPPY. I would like to see you get there...

We have a program in Minnesota for someone just like you, Nellie - it is called "New Beginnings."<P>They work with abandoned spouses, and help to get their lives put back together.... financial training - school f(no cost for 2 years), and a volunteer program to help families like yours in transition.<P>Maybe you needed help getting the Christmas lights up, or a babysitter once in a while..<P>Maybe it is a support group of others that are going through the same thing. Maybe your job isn't going to bring your financial standard up high enough that you aren't even at 75% of your previous comfort level. They work with the "whole" you, broken pieces and all. <P>I don't know if your state has anything like this, but if you call United Way, and tell them you want all the referrals they can give. Tell them about every one of your needs. <P>List them all. Go through the list, one by one, and I'm sure they can give you some referrals.<P>New Beginnings is a program that is funded - and is a no cost program.<P>tnt

nellie,<P>You are gettin some good advice here from people who {b]care[/b] about you...including me!<P>If nothing else, the counsleing or some assitance to help YOU. The worst thing your H has done to you is to take away your joy for life. DON'T LET HIM. We are all pained right now, but at least most of us can think we will be happy again. People are on different parts of the recovery road. What bothers me so much is that you don't THINK you will EVER be happy again. <P>Please do consider getting some counseling and DON'T let you H and the OW win!!!!<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>