Hi everyone -

I am brand new here. I've been reading some posts and have found some courage to post one of my own. Some background:

M = 7 1/2 years (together 13)
BS = Me, 32
WS = Him, 32
Children = 5, 20 mths
ILYBINILWY Speech = Oct. 18, 2003
Moved out (1st time) = Nov. 1, 2003
Moved back = Dec. 18, 2003
Moving back out = Jan. 14, 2004

WS moving out again after trying unsuccessfully (3 times, I might add) to break off contact with OW. Each time he did it, he told me how much he wanted to make it work with me, but the confidence would only last a day or two. Then, the depression and/or doubt would set in, and he just couldn't see his life without her.

When he originally came back, he said that no matter how hard he tried, he couldn't get me out of his head and that he was in denial how much he loved me. Now, he says the same thing about her. Except with her, it's this intense feeling he says he's never felt for me. It's hard for me to see the pages of Dr. Harley's book come to life before my very eyes.

I managed to talk him into talking with Steve Harley once. He seemed positive about it immediately after, but then just moaned about the cost and how he didn't really agree with the concepts of MB.

He brought home two books on how to handle kids and divorce last week. After that, I was an emotional basketcase. Saturday night, he told me that he wanted to separate. We told the kids Sunday, and he plans to move out Wednesday. What now?

I love him so much, and I know that he will learn to regret this move. Maybe not immediately, but he will. His parents divorced when he was 12, and he's always maintained that he could never to it to his children (he now says that when done the right way, the children will be unaffected). I know he still loves me, but he feels that his life will be 'happier' with her.

By the way, the OW is also married. She has 3 kids of her own, and is in the process of divorcing her 3rd husband. She moved into an apartment around the time WS left the first time, and he plans to go back there.

Please help with specifics of plan B - namely, how do I do this without disrupting the children's lives too much? And do I need to write a NC letter?

Thanks,
Wanting Him Back (A LOT)

Did your do Plan A yet? Your H is firmly in the fog. Don't expect any rational thoughts out of him. Start in Plan A - you should do it for 3 months if possible.

In the meantime, get on with your life. He will probably be back for good soon. Keep posting here and we will help you through this.

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

wanting him back, hugs to you. I'm in almost the same situation as you. Look at my signature line. I did a good Plan A. Now I guess it's on to Plan B. Did you Plan A, including exposure?

My H parents divorced when he was 8, which is about how old our son is. He also said he would NEVER do that to our children. Well, what the h*ll?!!

I don't know what I'm doing, other than he and I will be separated for about 6 months. The short week or so he was gone wasn't enough. He told me that he ended it, which he was only able to do for about a week. He isn't promising anything now, because he just breaks those promises.

When he first came back, he said "I love you" until he continued contact with her. Keep praying, reading and posting. God bless you.

Thanks for your replies.....

Yes, I have been through Plan A. I made many changes that he requested (that were apparently only 'surface' problems). I showed him respect, love, and did my best to meet his most important emotional needs.

Throughout the 3 weeks he was home, he repeatedly told me how much he didn't like being here. He wanted to be with her. ...But that he was 'trying'. He didn't want physical contact with me, other than a kiss on the cheek before and after work (and since he stated SF as his #1 EN, that became impossible to achieve) after the first few 'honeymoon' days back home.

I told Steve Harley that had I not read in the pages of SAA that WH would be depressed, I'd have been angry with him for his attitude. But I tried to be positive with him - assuring him the strong future of our marriage once he got through withdrawal.

We never got there. He couldn't stay away from OW for more than a day or two. Obviously, he never got out of W, so we could never address each other's EN.

I'm continuing therapy with Steve, and am going to try (again) to convince WS to attend the MB Weekend in Orlando. Although I feel sure that the chances of that happening are less than 1%, I have to try. I have to feel I've given it my all.

As for executing Plan B, Steve explained to me that not only is it a last resort, but it's also a way of preserving the love I have for him - kind of putting me in a protective holding pattern. He advised me to continue with my life (not necessarily MOVING ON with my life), just without WS. I think I can do this. I have to believe that it's the right thing to do.

In all sincerity, I don't think the A can last much longer. H works 6 (long) days a week, and has a 90 minute commute each way. He's promised to visit the kids 4 or 5 times a week (how... I haven't figured out yet). Plus, he's handing over 3/4 of his money to us (I stay home with the kids). I'd say that all of this will have to bug the OW greatly at some point. Not to mention the fact that H will miss his children and his big house (especially when he's living in that tiny apartment). OW also has child visitation she has to work out, plus OW's H wants to reconcile as well. In the mean time, however, they're still living in a fantasy world - feeling single and dating.

Sorry for the ramble - and thanks for the support. It means more to me than you know.

Hello to all-
This post is perfect for me as a newbie. Just to give some background information on my situation: Me, BW-26, WH-27. Married Sept 1999 (4 years). One D born Feb 2000 (about to be 4yo). ILYBNILWY on June 29, 2003. EA began May 25, 2003, told me on July 10, 2003. Started Plan A on August 8, 2003. EA continued through Plan A. WH tried to end EA on Dec 1, 2003. Started EA again on Dec 20, 2003. Plan B went into effect on Jan 1, 2004. WH moved out on Jan 6, 2004.

I did a horrible Plan A for six months. It was very difficult to do with WH still in EA with OW. I was very angry at WH for not wanting to end his EA. During Plan A there were brief moments of hope, but my heart would be crushed each time he spoke to OW (who lives in another state) and I would start arguments about ending his EA. Of course, he now feels like he could not love me again due to my actions over the last six months. Now, in Plan B I feel much calmer and I am just focusing on correcting myself instead of what he has done wrong to me.

We never tried counseling since WH was so against it, but he is now willing to go to the counseling. I need to be in Plan be for at least 3 months to be able to calm down and work on myself for awhile. Is that still considered Plan B if we start counseling and only speak to each other in those sessions?

I encourage everyone who is in the same situation as mine to work on yourself for awhile because the pain of losing someone you love is great. It is okay to grieve because we are experiencing a great loss. In case our attempts at reconcilliation do not work, we will be better because we took the time to work on our lives. I continue to pray and will pray for everyone here as well.

The MB plan is Plan A for several months and then if WS is still seeing OP, go to Plan B. I went to Plan B without doing Plan A, because I had already thrown H out by the time I found this site. I don't know if I would have been able to do Plan A anyway, since my H completely abandoned me to spend his efforts on OW.

But Plan B has been very helpful to me. I have been able to concentrate on making changes in me and my life. I stopped feeling so sad all of the time. I realized that I could move on without him and have a nice life. Also after 3 months he realized that he might really be losing his marriage.

But just some encouragement for those in the same predicament - my H said he would have NC with OW and went back to her 10 times. Talk about being addicted to someone. I had completely given up hope of ever having him want to come back. Now he says he does, but of course I don't believe him. But he seems to have changed back to like he used to be. Time will tell. I keep checking with OW's H and he thinks they have had NC for last 10 days. And the good thing about Plan B is that it has given me peace through all of this.

Thanks for the hope believer.
I have only been in plan B for 14 days now. I know things will continue to get better for myself as the time passes. We both will continue to focus on ourselves.

Wanting Him Back:
I cannot believe the similarities of our situation: The kids ages, the unsuccessfully trying to break it off, how you react (some people can handle this better than others - I am a basketcase), OP being married with kids,

Wanting Him Back:
I cannot believe the similarities of our situation: The kids ages, the unsuccessfully trying to break it off, how you react (some people can handle this better than others - I am a basketcase), OP being married with kids, knowing that they will regret this someday, etc. If you ever need to see that others share your pain, read my post sometime.

The hardest part for me is that with kids, I know that if she moves out it will do unbelievable damage to our 5 year old (long story). And while it makes perfect sense that she needs to move out:
A:) she won't
B:) I will miss her terribly
c:) I do depend on her to watch the kids and do a lot around the house (she is currently unemployed).
It is one thing to sit with a counselor and talk about how Plan B is the next necessary move, but then you have to get back to life, and it really sucks right now. I know we are "meant" to be together (no significant problems in marriage - she even still says she loves me and that I did nothing wrong), but how to face the potential reality that we may not end up together because of her choices? I fear I am not strong enough to handle this -- and if I am, I fear that I will hate her for doing this and that we may never reconcile.
I will pray for your Plan B and your strength! Please do the same for me!

Hi Hurting -

Yes, it is nice to realize there are other people out there suffering through the same emotional hell that we are. Even though I don't know any of you, I don't feel so alone. And since most of my friends think I'm a nutjob for even WANTING him back, it's also nice to know that there are people who not only understand why, but can help you through it.

H left this morning. Last night, I tried what Steve said, and mentioned the wkend again, to no avail. At that point, I accepted his answer - and sat silent for a while to avoid LBing - and we discussed visits and finances. Then came the tearful goodbye. We hugged for what seemed an eternity, he apologized, and I told him that he should know that the door will always be open for his return.

He really is a smart man - way too intelligent - and I cannot believe his behavior. It goes against everything he and I discussed in our entire relationship. He wouldn't even watch movies with adultery!

This is going to be hard for me, too, because I know they're going to have their 'honeymoon' period now. They're off in their little apartment with NO responsibilities - no little ones to worry about, no babysitters to find if they want to go out for a while. Meanwhile, I'm stuck here with a little boy who doesn't understand why his daddy doesn't live here anymore (and what do I say? I don't understand, either!), and a baby girl who will probably only recognize her daddy as some sort of uncle. How can WS be okay with ANY of that?

Thank you for your continued support, and please continue to keep me in your prayers.....

wanting, isn't your husband going to have the children sometimes?

My WH is moving out on February 1st. We haven't worked out details yet, but the children will be at his apartment on certain days and our house on certain days.

I understand that our children are older (10 and almost 9), but it would be a reality for your husband to have your children sometimes at his place.

Stung -

He will come see the kids 4 or 5 times a week (so he says - I won't hold my breath. His schedule is brutal enough without having to fit 'visitation' in.) and be with them in the house (his D book told him to do this). Since he plans on living with the OW, he can't take them there. He could take them to the park or something, but he's pretty limited. So I've told him that I won't be around for any of these visits.

Wanting Him Back:
Did you do a Plan B letter? I think you need to. All he will "hear" is that you said the door will always be open for his return. My counselor told me that I have to tell my wife that I am moving on with my life (not divorce), but that essentially I cannot guarantee that I will ALWAYS be her waiting for her return. But a good Plan B letter will have it all in writing for him - since the WS's don't seem to understand much of what we tell them, he will have it in black & white.

Personally, I cannot fathom what you are going through. I would want the same thing, to keep my girls 100% of the time, as I cannot stomach the thought of my girls with the OM - even in his presence. While I agree you should keep the door open, you need to work on yourself and rebuilding your life without him. I know, it is easy to write or say those words, but I have no idea how to go about it, and I definately know I don't want to do it. But you and all of us in your shoes at some point must face the fact that it MAY not work out. Don't focus on it, just focus on making yourself a better, stronger person. If you can find a way to do that, you will gain much needed strength.

And actively discuss this with the Lord. He is listening!

Hurting -

I know you're trying to be helpful, but you aren't giving me a lot of words of encouragement! :-| I am trying to move on .... without him ... but I cannot envision my life fully without him. It is too soon, I guess. He only moved out two days ago.

Those of you interested will be proud to know that I have not seen or talked to him in those two days - and that's the longest we've ever gone without talking to each other in our 13 year relationship. He called twice to check on the kids yesterday (with a pang of desperation in his voice, I might add), and I let the machine pick up both times. I had my son call him once, and then he called back and asked if I would please email him with the condition of the children. Funny how he's so concerned about that AFTER he moves out. So I emailed him with those details, and then we wound up getting around to some other details - like finances (the finer points of it) and visitation. Nothing personal. They are very business like - I don't like them (writing or receiving them).

As for my Plan B letter, Steve told me to set up an appt for when we have these pesky details (like finances and visitation) worked out. I assume that that's when he'll have me work on the Plan B letter.

Keep the notes coming - I look forward to them....

Wanting:
I am sorry about providing little encouragement. I wanted to make sure that you at least consider those things at some point.

You do need to stay positive! For yourself and your kids. I know how hard that is, believe me, but if you can be strong, your kids will know they can count on you - - and you sound like the kind of person that would do anything for her children. Take joy in their everyday lives! I have always spent a lot of time with my kids, but I find myself reveling in their new discoveries and learning. Take time to be a kid again with them! Forget the laundry for an hour and play blocks and roll around on the floor with them!

Here is something that was on the wall of the hospital where we gave birth to our 2 children. I have a copy on the wall at home:

How To Really Love A Child

Be There. Say yes as often as possible. Let them bang on pots and pans. If they’re crabby, put them in water. If they’re unlovable, love yourself. Realize how important it is to be a child. Go to a movie theatre in your pajamas. Read books out loud with joy. Invent pleasures together. Remember how really small they are. Giggle a lot. Surprise them. Say no when necessary. Teach feelings. Heal your own inner child. Learn about parenting. Hug trees together. Make loving safe. Bake a cake and eat it with your hands. Go find elephants and kiss them. Plan to build a rocketship. Imagine yourself magic. Make lots of forts with blankets. Let your angel fly. Reveal your own dreams. Search out the positive. Keep the Gleam in your eye. Mail letters to God. Encourage silly. Plant licorice in your garden. Open up. Stop yelling. Express your love. A lot. Speak kindly. Paint their tennis shoes. Handle with caring.
CHILDREN ARE MIRACULOUS
by V.C SARK

I'm in a mood. Sitting there watching an ER episode from 2 weeks ago (I'm waaaaaaaaaay behind in my Tivo), and I want to bawl. Sometimes it just hits me square between the eyes. What's happening to me, my children, my marriage, my life. I have absolutely NO control. The only thing I can do is try to make the lives we have the best I can. But it's just so incomplete. As much as a cliche as it is, he completed me. Where I was strong, he was weak, and vice versa. So I sit here at night, alone, watching TV or listening to music - and get sad.

I'm not the kind of person to dwell on something that makes me sad. I don't like to be sad. But I just am. Not all the time, but.... enough. I'm trying so hard to be strong. I really am. Those kids just have to look at me with their big, beautiful, innocent little eyes and my heart shatters. How can he do this? My heart breaks a million times a day.

Then my mind starts to wander. Wondering what in the world he could possibly be doing that is so much better than being here with his family. How can he not see past this 'thing' he's f***ing? And then I try to imagine what would happen if we reconcile. Is he really over her? I would always wonder if something we were doing was something they did. My stomach turns when I think of the two of them together. I try so hard not to let my mind go in that direction, but it is so so so hard. I am trying to believe in what Steve is telling me; that it's just an addiction, that it can't work, that he'll figure it out, I have to not talk to him, etc. This is BY FAR the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. What if it's EASY for him to not talk to me every day? What if he LIKES it? What if he is RELIEVED that he doesn't have to see me when he picks up the kids?

I get set off by the smallest things. In ER, Carter sees his son's sonogram, and that's what did it. I remember how happy we were for both of our kids' sonograms, and I just can't understand how we got from there to here. Our marriage hasn't always been perfect (as I'm sure you know), but it's been damn happy. Full of laughter. How can he not want to make it work with me? And regardless of what he says now (or what he tells himself), he had to have been deeply in love with me and attracted to me to marry me. When he proposed, he stated that he could NEVER get married to someone he didn't believe he could be with for the rest of his life - and that I was that person. I haven't changed that much. How is this so easy for him?

Alright, I'll stop rambling. I have to note that right now, "Against All Odds" is playing. How fitting:

How can I just let you walk away
Just let you leave without a trace
When I stand here taking every breath with you
You're the only one who really knew me at all

How can you just walk away from me
When all I can do is watch you leave
When we've shared the laughter and the pain
And even shared the tears
You're the only one who really knew me at all

So take a look at me now
There's just an empty space
And there's nothing left here to remind me
Just the memory of your face
So take a look at me now
There's just an empty space
And you coming back to me is against the odds
and that's what I've got to face

I wish I could just make you turn around
Turn around and see me cry
There's so much I need to say to you
So many reasons why
You're the only one who really knew me at all

So take a look at me now
There's just an empty space
And there's nothing left here to remind me
Just the memory of your face
Now take a look at me now
Cuz there's just an empty space
But to wait for you is all I can do
And that's what I've got to face

Take a look at me now
Cuz I'll still be standing here
And you coming back to me
Is against all odds
It's the chance I've got to take
Take a look at me now


On that note.......

Hang in there. It took 12 weeks of Plan B for my H to want to come back. He ignored me until then. And he is still having trouble with NC with OW.

It is an addiction, and little by little they come out of it. And then there is the rebuilding. So take care of yourself and be good to yourself, and try to rest up. It is miserable at first, day after day, but it will get better.

Did you have NC with him for the entire 12 weeks?

My H made a crack to me last night about how I've been 'unavailable' to talk to (we had to discuss a situation with our son).

Believer - how is your recovery going now? And is your H still in w/d?

I had NC with him for 12 weeks. Just before Christmas he started making contact to try to reconcile. Then he had NC with OW for 10 whole days, until I caught them in bed together last Thursday night. He is still out of home, but was back trying to reconcile Saturday, and yesterday. So I have hope that Plan B is the key. I'm getting back into it until he writes NC letter to OW.

Wow.

That's all I can say.......