Long story, but here goes.....

WW had EA (internet, with one meeting at class reunion with OM I'd known since 4th grade), 2.5 years ago, I found out, ended it abruptly, asked WW to reengage in marriage, and changed many things about myself. NC took place immediately and things were back to normal. WW and I went to counselor, who said WW had the problem (low self esteem, prescribed Prozac, recently removed from it in Nov 03), and counselor told me not to attend again unless asked to. I never went again. WW went for 2 months, then was released by IC.

May 2003... uneasy feeling. WW had never really made much effort to "engage" in our marriage. Suspected for a while, but not confirmed EA leading to PA (light, no intercourse, but heavy petting), confronted Labor Day weekend 2003. Started MC immediately, found MB online in Nov. I asked for immediate NC, but found out since that WW has iniated 3 personal contacts and at least 4 phone contacts, all but the last taking place after me "contemplating" asking her to leave to begin Plan B, after finding out about the personal "unintentional run-ins with the OM.

I confronted (non-threatening) OM Labor Day weekend by phone, told him I was going to try to salvage the marriage, and he wished us luck!? After beginning Plan A, (way to late did I find the info online) I again asked WW for NC w/OM. After a bad weekend in Dec, WW called him again. So, I called OM again, and he said "what could he do to help"? So, feeling awkward and embarrassed, I asked him to minimize conversation whenever WW called him. He agreed. And agreed to confidentiality regarding my call to him.

Over Christmas, things getting somewhat better, but returning from trip WW called OM again! I was devastated, of course. We had began reading SAA by then and she knew how important NC was to me.

Soooooo.... I called him again, told OM that my WW had recently told me her feelings for him were as strong as they were in August/September. She had described him as "soulmate" and "very close friends", you all know the drill.

He shocked and surprised me by telling me he had never perceived that WW cared for him that much, thinking they were "just" close friends who got carried away and did some inappropriate activity after some heavy drinking. He indicated he had no idea of her strong feelings, that she had not shown that to him. He really seemed surprised that she cared for him that much, and that the feeling still existed.

So, having his attention at this time, I asked for one last favor. I reminded him that he had told me he'd do whatever I asked him to do to assist with restoring my marriage with my WW. I asked him to tell her in his own words that his feelings for her were not equal to hers for him, and to let her know her continued calls to him were damaging her chances of saving her marriage. I also asked for complete confidentially, as I had on the previous call to him, and he agreed.

WW's last "promise" of no contact was January 5, 2004, so I don't know if they'll ever talk again, but she's always clung to the caveat that if she runs into him inadvertantly, she'll not just ignore him, she would talk for a moment to "see how he was getting along". She did promise not to call him or put herself in a position to run into him.

Is this too weird??? So the questions I have are:

Could I have been fooled by him and is he possibly still iniating contact w/WW? (I don't think so, and WW substantiates this)

Should I believe for one moment he will tell her this if she calls him again? (I do believe him)

In the philosophy of complete openness and honesty, should I ever tell WW of this action I have taken, and the request I made of the OM? Or does this qualify as an action to stop the affair (completely) so healing can begin?

I posed these questions to my MC in private and she said she'd never heard of such a thing and would have to think about it....

Any other advice or comments regarding this mess would be appreciated.

BS: 53
WW: 51
Married 30 years Dec 29
3 sons 25, 23, 16

Shattered:

I'm confused. Was the OM aware of the fact that your wife was YOUR wife when their A began? Did your WW meet the OM for the first time at your reunion?

I guess what I'm wondering is why you would believe this OM any more than you would your wife IF he willfully involved himself in the A knowing who each of you were. At the very least, I certainly think the OM has as much potential to decieve you as your WW does.

I would take anything this man says with a grain of salt, and I would avoid discussing YOUR marital situation with him. He could end up blabbing to your wife or using knowledge of your intentions against you in any number of ways.

Sorry I don't have better advice but, like I said, I'm a little confused about the circumstances of their initial meeting & the beginnings of their affair. Just be careful getting involved with the "enemy" on too personal a level.

Perhaps the term "enemy" is too strong a conviction here since HE'S not the one who made vows to you. Regardless of the terminology, I would not believe MOST of what EITHER have to say. They are probably both grasping at straws in an attempt at damage control.

One member stated in another post, "Don't believe anything you hear and only 50% of what you see." That advice sounds pretty reasonable to me.

<small>[ January 16, 2004, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Culprit007 ]</small>

My fault... the first EA was 2.5 years ago with a former classmate, with their only in person meeting at my class reunion.

The latest EA/PA is with a different OM, beginning around the 1st of May, confrontation in September, and "recovering" since then.

Sorry for the confusion....

Shattered:

It's so hard to write when your thoughts and emotions are whirling a mile a minute. I'm sorry for the confusion; I didn't realize that A2 was with a different OM.

I would still exercize caution when dealing with the OM. I can't put my finger on any one particular reason why the scenario of you having open discussions with this guy makes me uneasy... seems like the possibility for further damage is pretty abundant.

I assume this current OM is NOT an old friend or acquaintance of yours, then?

Correct, a real estate guy WW met while looking for a house for my 23 yo son. She apparently became infatuated w/him (divorced twice, one 6 yo son, he has custody of. WW did all the pursuing, he did none. Between telephone recorder and keyboard logger, I'm relatively certain HE has NOT ever initiated contact since Labor Day weekend. WW has initiated at least on of the personal meetings, the other two may have been chance. She has initiated all 4 phone conversations, at least that what she told me. Thanks for responding

Your time lines are impossible to follow. You jump back and forth too much.

WW and I went to counselor, who said WW had the problem (low self esteem, prescribed Prozac, recently removed from it in Nov 03), and counselor told me not to attend again unless asked to. I never went again. WW went for 2 months, then was released by IC.
When was this?

May 2003... uneasy feeling. WW had never really made much effort to "engage" in our marriage. Suspected for a while, but not confirmed EA leading to PA (light, no intercourse, but heavy petting), confronted Labor Day weekend 2003. Started MC immediately
Is this the same counseling as above?

all but the last taking place after me "contemplating" asking her to leave to begin Plan B
Did you tell her you were contemplating Plan B?

I confronted (non-threatening) OM Labor Day weekend by phone,
Now ere are back at Labor day again?!?!

And agreed to confidentiality regarding my call to him.
Uh, why are you keeping secrets form your wife? WHy are you and om scheming against her? Not too good for a marriage, especially one in trouble.

Soooooo.... I called him again, told OM that my WW had recently told me her feelings for him were as strong as they were in August/September. She had described him as "soulmate" and "very close friends", you all know the drill.
Why in the world would possibly want to tell this to the om?

He really seemed surprised that she cared for him that much, and that the feeling still existed.
If he was so “shocked & suprised” by this, why did he “wonder” that it “still” existed?

So, having his attention at this time, I asked for one last favor
You had his attention causes he didn’t want to get his a$% kicked.

I also asked for complete confidentially, as I had on the previous call to him, and he agreed.
So more scheming against your wife.

she's always clung to the caveat that if she runs into him inadvertantly, she'll not just ignore him
That’s a no brainer. She NEEDS to just ignore him.

Could I have been fooled by him and is he possibly still iniating contact w/WW?
Yes.

(I don't think so, and WW substantiates this)
And you should believe her because?

Should I believe for one moment he will tell her this if she calls him again? (I do believe him)
And you belive him because of what happened 2.5 years ago? He told you all about that without asking him, correct?

In the philosophy of complete openness and honesty, should I ever tell WW of this action I have taken, and the request I made of the OM?
Absolutely!

Or does this qualify as an action to stop the affair (completely) so healing can begin?
No it doesn’t. Anything you do to end the affair should not be a “secret” or sneaky.

I suggest you reread “Surviving An Affair” and also read “LoveBusters” and the links below.

Shattered:

I think there is too much possibility of you... I dunno... ENABLING the OM by informing him of your wife's alleged feelings for him. There is danger of planting a seed not previously contemplated.

I think you should STOP talking to this OM, confess your previous conversations with him to your WW, express to her your desire to rebuild the marriage, and immediately implement Plan A or Plan B (whichever you feel is more applicable based on the outcome of such a talk with your wife).

Your WW is probably emotionally unstable right now, and her FIRST reaction will be anger that you "snuck around" behind her back to conspire with her OM. Your response will be along the lines of, "Like how YOU snuck around behind ME with OM?" But you SHOULD NOT speak this if, in fact, you DO want to work things out (it's a LoveBuster).

If you haven't already done so, immerse yourself in Dr. Harley's books - particularly "Surviving An Affair" - for a better understanding of how this tragic "dance" works. In fact, there is an interesting piece written by psychiatrist Greg Smalley entitled "Fear Dance" that is worth checking out as well, just for some basic info on how couples push each other's buttons and our natural reactions to such pressure. You could probably find this online by doing a Google search; might be worthwhile reading for you.

I will keep you (and your WW) in my thoughts and prayers.