My wife is still having an A and we are separated. She asked me for a D early Dec 2003, but we haven't mentioned it since. It resulted in me giving her the space she wanted/needed. We went a month with NC. Now we are in contact and she wants to be friends. I do too, but I also want her to come back to me and stop the A. I enjoy the talks we have and the time we spend togther, but I can't let go of the fact that she is still seeing OM. I feel disrespected and also have little respect for her for continuing on with the A.

I want her to see the "new me" and choose it over OM, but am affraid that she is just enjoying having it all (me as a friend and OM too). I have been fighting back the need to tell her I want her back and that she needs to end the A. I don't want to pressure her, but it is hard being patient.

What should I do???

Have you read Surviving An Affair by DR.Harley? I'm verry new here and it has helped a bunch. My WW moved out two weeks ago and she too wants to be friends.I don't know where your faith is but there is a lot of support from God.I like Mark 11:23.

The short answer on what to do, is Plan A, probably followed by Plan B. The long answer is: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ... If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I appreciate your responses and I have read After the Affair and many other books. The problem is that my WS will not. Sure..I can see all the possibilities of what we "could" do, but my question is..."How do I get that info to my WS and not have it come from me"? As I am sure you all know...if it comes from me she will not listen and feel very pressured and that will push her away more. She seems very content with having me a just a friend and also having her lover. That just doesn't work for me. I guess I need to continue on with Plan A, but I always wonder how the WS is supposed to realize all that you are doing with such little dialog? I am frustrated and having a hard time holding my tongue. I will do what I need to do to save my marriage, but I want to know that I am doing all that I can do and not missing any oportunities.

Plan A and B do not depend on WS knowing about them. Your actions will have an affect on WS. In your case, I think I would do Plan A for about a month and then go to Plan B. During Plan A tell her how much you still love her and that you still want to create a new and improved marriage with her, etc., but only after the A ends. During the month show her the new you, then go *dark*. This will confuse WS and give her alot to think about. Plan B is to protect you and your love for WS, but do Plan A for as long as you are able.

So stop reading and start acting. I've heard "After the Affair" is a good book, but does it lay out a well-tested plan of action for those in your situation? SAA does.

I am a bit overwhelmed and would appreciate someone telling me in simple term w/o too many aconyms...What I should do?

Please give me any suggestions...I want to save my marriage more then anything, but I am still confused as to what I should do exactly in order to give it the best chance.

Thank you so much for any help you can offer me.

Neb,

When you hit the wall ... call MB and get M coaching from them.

I would take her offer just to show her that hat you have done so far and find out current situation more. You decide from there. Most likey you have to plan B her ... not just NC afterward.

Just my 2¢ -rh-

What to do, in order:

1. Tell the OM's wife.

2. Order "Survivng an Affair"

3. Read through Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts from beginning to end, twice. Right now - before reading step 4. Seriously.

4. Start Plan A. It is explained in general terms in: What Are Plan A and Plan B?. More detail and practical advice can be found in the links I referenced above.Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, and I really can't explain it any better. You can find explanations for any acronyms here.

5. Whether the reading and re-reading has made the Plan A/Plan B approach clear to you or not, set up an appointment with an MC who is familiar with the Plan A/B approach for help. Steve or Jenn from this site, or Penny at saveyourmarriagecentral.com are highly recommended. They should help encourage you and help you define your plan of attack.

6. Read "Surviving an Affair" (SAA), by Harley as soon as possible.

Neb: So? How far along are you on the list?

Johnh39- I have completed the list. In fact, last night I confronted my WS and told her I could nop longer play this game of me trying to be her friend while she was in another relationship. I told her I could not be her friend and that the plain and simple fact was that I still love her and that I want to remain married. I told her that the only two scenerios that would allow me to move on from this and not continue to be tormented would be...1. we get back together or 2. we have no part in eachothers lives (ie...NC). She waivered a bit and then began saying things such as "if we can work on things...or...if we can get through this...which showed me that she was willing to consider it. I told her that that is how it has to be for me and that she needs to make a choice. I told her that whatever choice she made would be okay. I simply told her that I can not go on any longer in limbo.

We are going to talk again in a few days and see if I need to go dark or not.

I may not have expressed the way I did this very well above, but I believe I did it in a non-threatening, open-ended manner. I tried not to pressure her or make her feel as though this was an untimadum. I told her it was simply the way it need to be for ME.

It felt good to take back some control. No longer will I continue on indefinitely in limbo. I have set a dead-line to when I will go on with my life one way or another.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

neb,
interesting ha? when you take a definative position she backs off a bit and begins to consider her actions and what they will eventually mean to her.

and why is that you feel that her leaving is strictly a function of something YOU did rather then a BAD choice that she made on her own?

look, all of us need to do better in our relationships...we need to be more caring, more attentive more everything that's posative but guess what? in the final analysis, our WW spouse bare the responsability for running away.

i have never read one post on this board where the WW or H told their BS strait out..."WE ARE IN TROUBLE AND UNLESS CHANGES ARE MADE I'M LEAVING!" and then brought a solution to the tablke rather then just complain about it.

why is that good people around here are always willing to take all the responsability for the acts of their faithless spouse? because guess what...all of this is not your fault!

if it were me, i would tell her that i have no interst at all in being her friend! NONE, NADA, ZILCH! i would tell that "we are married! get it?" "that this isn't about some other kind of relationship...ANY OTHER KIND OF RELATIONSHIP! this is about our marriage and that's the only relationship i'm interested in."

what should you do? back the h@ll off and stop pressing her. be a little independant and show her that you're not some charity case that isn't attractive to others...that you are willing to stay with her and work on the marriage because you're strong and because you care...not because you can't find some one else if you have to or because you're desperate. in sahort, stop being so availible...so needy...so responsible. let her accept who she is just as you have had to accept who you are.

coach

I am thinking my WW will come to me on Tues. when we meet and say that she is ending the A, but she is not ready to commit to our marriage again...that she needs to be just friends first and see what happens.

So i am not sure what the best thing to do will be. I could go dark or be her friend and allow a chance for those feeling to come back.

What I would like to do is tell her...I am willing to be just friends for now if the A is over, but that I need a commitment to the goal that our friendship turn into more in time. A committment to me and our marriage.

I would also like some sort of proof.

What do you all think is the best thing to do/say?

Thank you so much!

The best thing to do, at this point, is no contact. In my opinion, you are beyond Plan A (which you can read about here on the Marriage Builders website) but should move on to Plan B, which is not contact until the affair is ended and she is willing to work on the marriage.

Sorry, but after being married, and with you still in love with her and wanting the marriage to work, you cannot just be friends. That is allowing her to have her cake and eat it too. To make a long story short, by being a friend to her, you are meeting some of her emotional needs, needs which are not being met by OM. He cannot meet those needs, which is why she wants to be friends in the first place. What no contact will do is force the OM to have to meet all of her needs.

Is it taking a chance? Sure. But, statistically, the odds of OM being able to meet those needs are very, very small. The affair will then self implode, and your WW will be willing to work on the marriage.

Michael

Yeah...but what if she says the A is over and that she still wont commit to working on the marriage?

Then you still need to initiate plan B. No contact. In fact, I would not be surprised if initially, she did say the marriage is over. Read this website. She is in the "fog", which essentially means she is not thinking clearly, or normally.

Read up on this. It's all here on the Marriage Builders site.
Michael

<small>[ February 02, 2004, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: MichaelinDallas ]</small>

I guess where I get confused is that the goal of Plan A and B are to stop the A, but if the A is stopped and the WS still does not want to work on things and just be frends...It seems to me that Plan A would be best. If you go to Plan B and go dark, how is the WS supposed to see you at your best like you do in Plan A? I would think that I would want to take the opportunity of spending time together to allow for a connection to occure. Does any of this make sense or do I have this all messed up?

John...Coach...Chris...Redhat...where did you all go? Thank you to anybody and everybody who gives even the smallest piece of advice!

neb good buddy,
what makes you think that she is ending her affair? even if she says that she is! sorry but saying something doesn't make it so. doing it makes it so! and let's be serious here...her track record as to honesty isn't exactly up there with say mother teresa.

besides, your goal is not to just have her end her affair...your goal is for her to come back to the marriage. what good would it be if she were to end the affair...only to begin living the life of a single woman seeking new love interests. great ha? you can be the friend she confides in when she wants to talk about all her new boy friends...RIGHT!? i dont' think so...

understand, in many cases an affair is symptomatic of an immature attitude...a kind of defienace to being forced to face life as an adult. and maybe she will never be capable of exhibiting this level of comittment or maturity...you have to face that possability after all. but for right now, if saving the marriage is your goal then i vote on going to plan B.

i would write her the plan B letter letting her know that marriage is your goal...not friendship. that you're more then willing, in fact you want to be, the best friend she will ever have...but you want to do it with in the frame work of a loving comitted reraltionship called marriage.

coach

Neb,
I did recommend that you do Plan A for about a month before Plan B. I say a month because sometimes it is very difficult for the BS to Plan A for very long. Now, if you think you can do it longer, go for it!
But do have a time limit. If she is still having the A, then she is a cake-eater if she wants to maintain a friendship with you. You don't want to be a friend, you want to be a husband. Part of Plan A is also proof that A is ended. She has to account for her time, give you passwords to email and access to her cell phone records, etc.
If she still wants to live apart and not work on the M, then Plan B is the recommended solution. She has to feel what it will be like *not* to have your friendship. This is a very difficult path for the BS and I never had to go to Plan B. I rebelled against everything everyone was saying about Plan A, but I stuck it out and it worked. Just try the advice you've been offered. It is a proven method to rebuilding a marriage.

Hi NEB,

I think you already know the answer to your own question:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2. we have no part in eachothers lives (ie...NC)...I told her that that is how it has to be for me and that she needs to make a choice. I told her that whatever choice she made would be okay. I simply told her that I can not go on any longer in limbo.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It looks like Plan B it is. She's made her choice. Now you need to make yours.

<small>[ February 04, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>