Well, plan B went out the window, exactly 24 hours after. You see, my situation is a little different. My H has made in very clear to me that there is no PA. I have no hard evidence, have to take his word for it or I could push him from his EA to a PA.

(Little quick insight, after 11 yrs marriage, husband came crying that he loves me, but is not "in love" with me)

There is no fighting, he hugs me and keeps telling me that "everything will be just fine, everything will work out"

I told him that I am going to love him unconditionally and every time he knocks me down I am getting right back up. He says "I am not knocking you down, I am helping you out"

I have had past "emotional" problems that I never sought counseling for. Sporadic depression, insecurities, perfectionist, things like that. And he keeps telling me these are the things that brought him to this point. He couldn't handle it anymore and I need to change for me, not him. I am trying to get into therapy but not having good luck. 2 therapists I went to sucked and my next appointment with the 3rd isn't for 3 weeks.

I keep wondering if this is some sort of "tough love" or if he's trying to get me stable so he can "drop the next bomb", The later he swore to my family and I wouldn't happen, he said there are no more bombs.

What made me call him today to come home was my 7 yr old daughter (both children are unaffected by this because my H and I are still on good terms), anyways, she asked this morning while waiting for the bus "Mommy, when is it going to get warmer out so we can all go quadding (A.T.V.'s) again?" In the past year and 1/2 we went out and purchased two ATV's for family recreation, which I thought we all enjoyed, but now I am questioning if my H enjoyed it at all. ATV's is how we got together, my H was always big into them and I purchased him a nice 4x4 camo one for Father's Day 2002 with a nice thank you for being such a great dad and Husband.

He says he can't see into the future if we will be together or not and asked me to stop trying to see. He says he doesn't know if this marriage can work out, take one day at a time.

When he came home he hugged me and I said "See, I can't live with you and I can't live without you" and we both laughed.

I ordered Michele Weiner's Divorce Remedy book last night. I need to conquer this marriage on my own for now.

Sorry this is so long, but you all are so helpful, I hope someday I will be wise enough to be posting advise, instead of begging for help.

Get to doctor and get some meds. They work like magic. Yes you still have to do some work, but the meds help you feel like doing it. I have been on anti-D's since D-day and they really help me. It's a whole new world for me.

believer

What a nice name....I can't go on anti D's. H is very against them, calls them a band aid, feels that it will fake my improvements. I know better, but I CAN'T go against him, he is just looking for ways to say I haven't changed. I did buy St. Johns wart, it's a mood enhancing herb. My H was on it sometime ago when he was in school for his job, only been on it for 2 days. I know it's coincedance, but I've been feeling better about things today, but then I also told my H to come home.

H called from work, I mentioned that our youngest would be in preschool all day tomorrow and I was running some errands, asked him if he needed anything. He offered to go with me during his 2 hour break between jobs. I don't know which way to think. I know a girl has his heart, not sure if she has his other parts yet.

I have studied LB's, EN's, whole 9 yards, read his needs/her needs. I am petrified to even go tomorrow. Everything's different now, don't even know what to talk about. All he does is work (or so he admits to) and all I do is work and housework and kids. Pretty boring stuff. We haven't been together alone since the crap hit the fan 3 weeks ago. Obviously I am not bringing up anything about what's going on, and I am praying he doesn't either. I used to be real light hearted, loved to laugh, loved to joke around, you know, make fun of someone walking down the street, but not in a way so that person hears or realizes it, I don't hurt peoples feelings like that. But now my H is so big on how I was always so negative, critical, stuff like that.

WHAT THE HECK DO WE TALK ABOUT????? I've been trying to think of ways to slide in conversation about positive things we did together in the past, but I know it's going to come out obvious. If there's one thing everyone knows about me is I AM THE WORST ACTRESS, can't lie to save my life I tell ya. Can't make myself cry, and can't even make myself laugh when someone tells a really bad joke. I am sincere to people, which my husband thinks is a bad trait. Everyone knows where they sit with me, I guess that can be considered a bad trait now that I put it in writing. O.K., one for the H.

Time to stick up for yourself and stop letting H run your life. If you have depression issues, it is a chemical imbalance. I tried for many years to "just get over it" with no luck. Anti-D's have been a miracle for me. No one can tell me not to take them.

As a side note - depression runs in my family. I have 2 relatives who committed suicide. My sister had a nervous breakdown and after taking anti-D's graduated from Harvard with a degree in law.

Your little ones need a mom who can be herself and take care of them.

m01069,

Good luck ... hope you know that you are going to do this w/ both eyes wide open. BS should not welcome WS home until they are ready to work on M. They could stay out and have contact but not in the same house.

Keep posting ... I want to keep track of your situation if you don't mind.

-rh-

Redhat

I would be honored.

I have two little girls here. If it were just me, you bet you rear end he'd be out until he's thinking straight. I am very independent and that might be part of the problem.

I believe every man wants to be "needed". Well, because my H works so much I thought I was taking stress off of him by learning to fend for myself. When I look back as to how we got together, it was because my car kept breaking down and I knew my H (then friend) could fix it in 5 minutes, and I could "break" it on purpose. (The problem was in the shifter). So, I would see him drive by where I was hanging out, break my shifter, get on the CB and call out to him. Played the "poor blonde" routine.

When I need him now, when I am sad and crying, he comes back to me, hugs me, tells me everything will be just fine. Now granted, I can't keep crying to him, that will get old. I need to find other "small" routes, nothing major that would cause a lot of stress. Act "helpless". Damn, I wouldn't even have to act, I'm sick of doing everything around here, would be nice for some help.

Just some idea ...

1. Put a fork in a garbage disposal and turn it on.
2. Open you toilet tank and lossen some bolt and let the water running.
3. When he visit ... try to start the lawn mower but don't pull the acceleator.
4. Talk about hating the color of the wall in your kid bed room and planning to repaint it.

You know more ... you wanna play Venusian, lol.

However this could backfire to you. OW could put pressures and bounderies and it would be an huge LB to either OW or to you.

-rh-

Redhat

1. Put a fork in a garbage disposal and turn it on. Don't have one

2. Open you toilet tank and lossen some bolt and let the water running. I screwed up toilet on accident few years back from as he said "cleaning the f-in thing too much" He had to rip out and put new toilet in, wasn't very happy

3. When he visit ... try to start the lawn mower but don't pull the acceleator Obviously you live where it isn't 10 below zero, like I do, plus we have a tractor, turn key, turns on.

4. Talk about hating the color of the wall in your kid bed room and planning to repaint it. I just finished painting whole interior of house myself 2 months back. The whole time I asked his opinion, his answer "whatever you want dear, you know I don't care about colors"

I get your point though, Hoped I made you chuckle.

I could only hope OW tries to set boundries. My H absolutely HATES them. That will send him running back to me, because I have lifted boundries. Hmmm, I may not be as stupid as I look <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi, I just finished reading your posts. by the way, Redhat is a funny guy, isn't he?

A few observations:
H wants you to change yourself FIRST, to complete changes and be the new improved YOU before he's willing to work on "US."

Doesn't that seem arrogant? It smacks of ultimate control to me. Not to mention, he disapproves of medication. So you are to deal with his affair (let's not quibble about the definition here; he's involved with another woman and whether it's PA or EA it's an affair) and do a major overhaul on yourself, with no medically prescribed support.

Whew. I know you like the car thing, but its foreign to me, so try this analogy instead:

You are hiking uphill with a baby in a jerry carrier and an infant in a front pack. Or hiking uphill without babies but with a 40 pound backpack strapped on.

Now you get completely drenched in a sudden downpour. You have to keep going. The weight of your clothes makes it slow going. What could help would be a poncho. But that would be cheating, taking the easy way. Keep on slogging upward.

He's just drenched you with the fact of "Not in love." And he wants you to make changes he wants, and tolerate his "lifelong women friends" and be nice, AND make changes without any concessions on his part.

Extra marital affairs are one of the worst stressors that can hit a human being. You have 3 weeks until you can even SEE a therapist. The other 2 weren't helpful. You were smart enough to spot that and not get started in a useless course of therapy.

One of the big things that helped me through our mess was finally getting Zoloft prescribed by a psychiatrist. My attitude changed for the better, my mood brightened up,and I was able to do things for myself and forget about him for awhile.

I became less pathetic. Who wants to be around a down in the dumps, depressed person WHO YOU AREN"T IN LOVE WITH when there's this other person WHO YOU ARE IN LOVE WITH who is NOT down in the dumps?

THat's not my whole story, I'm rambling, but your H is trying to control the sitch, and you, and keep things going with the sweetie.

WHy are you waiting 3 weeks to see this other therapist? Do you have an insurance plan with approved providers?

Belle

Everything you said is true. And I know that, but what am I to do.

3 week wait for therapy? NOthing, most of them were 2 months, and 1/2 never returned my calls. The two I saw immediately were outside of my insurance in desperation. I figured why should I pay $100 to see these therapists that can't help me when I can spend $15.

I definately admit to change my "controlling, *****y ways" but my H can't change ME. I hopefully will go back to being the funny, outgoing girl I was, and today will be my first day with him to show it.

I doubled up on St John's wart today, plus I'm dealing with strep throat, on meds for that since yesterday. Strep throat doesn't bother me, cuz my heart hurts worse.

As far as this other bimbo(s). If they prevail, then God will give them a life of unanswered prayers.

MY H AND I WILL SURVIVE TOGETHER, MY H AND I WILL SURVIVE TOGETHER,

Gotta go and do my hair for my HOT date. HAHAHAHA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by m01069:
<strong>I could only hope OW tries to set boundries. My H absolutely HATES them. That will send him running back to me, because I have lifted boundries. Hmmm, I may not be as stupid as I look <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, I like comedy ... even it is on me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

Don't try anything on R ... focus on your own healing. A will end, not now & not yet. Could you out last it ?

-rh-

Redhat

You are too cool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Just returned from errands with H. Everything went o.k. Nothing GREAT, nothing BAD. Had a couple of laughs. I reached for his hand as we walked, he didn't let go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Before he went to work AGAIN, he said "everything will be just fine". I said "I have one goal in my mind and that's I will improve myself and you and I will stay together, is that the same goal as in your mind?" H nodded and said "yes". Was this trueful Yes? Or was it "I'll just agree with her so I can get to work yes?" I have not a clue. I will take it at face value, makes me feel better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

He's suppose to be home Sun. night. Do I try the old 'sex-aroo'? I have some great physical stresses I need to release <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (love these graemlins) But if he's hesitant on holding my hand, he might be hesitant doing the horizontal bop too. Oh heck, we're married, why am I treating it like I never slept with him before?

Don't know if this is an issue for you or not...but just in case...St.Johns Wort can interfere with BC pills.

m01069,

Hey, if he is not up to betraying his feeling yet ... probably tantric s3x work better to tease him ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

Go easy and take it one notch higher each time he allows you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

-rh-

At the risk of sounding stupid here, oh what the heck.

What is probably tantric s3x work better to tease him ?

I am sure I am going to regret asking this question. I slept through sex-ed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am trying to do that "one step" thing, but a girl has her needs ya know. I thought every guy likes to have a little blonde chick chasing him, or maybe he already has that <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Redhat,

I am copying over a reply from me I have over at emotional needs forum under HUSBAND IS NOT IN LOVE WITH ME for you to read.

I understand how different everyone is, especially MEN, but may I have found my own answer? Sorry it's so long

I have been praying everyday, most of the day.

Lee

Here's some food for thought. And here's something I haven't fessed up to this site yet. I didn't want to cloud the issue cuz I KNOW what everyone is going to say. But, here it goes.

After being married for 1 or 2 years, my H wasn't meeting my EN's. Although back then I didn't know what EN's were. We were young, without children, and one thing I loved to do was go out partying. At the beginning I would always ask my H to come along. Him being more of a go out to eat and go home and watch a movie man, hated dance clubs would 95% of the time say "No thanks, you go out with your friends"

After a while, I stopped even asking. Figured he didn't want to be out with me so F him. I was essentially falling out of love with him, I remember thinking he could go find someone else, no big deal, plenty of fish out in that sea, I'm having a blast with all this attention. Well, after countless times out and countless numbers of compliments, free drinks and offers, yes folks, I had an affair! It was a one night stupid stand, I did it in my own town so deep down I was asking to be caught, and yes siree, BUSTED!!

Exposure came a couple of mornings after, when I was dead hungover from the night before. My H contronted me with enough details for me to confess. I told him everything, apologized, then told him I was leaving. I was ashamed of myself, felt unworthy of him. He physically kept me from leaving, looked me dead in the eyes, carried me to the bedroom and made love to me.

I asked him how could he make love to me, I had just cheated on him? He said "You are my wife, I love you and I will make love to you". He said in time, I would need to regain his trust and he would forgive me. I remember eating out at OLIVE GARDEN that night, and him just staring at me from the other side of the table, and I would peek up, hungover as hell and just give him a little ashamed smile. To this day, during all of this, I have brought that up numerous of times. He has told me a million times he forgave me long ago, and that's not even a factor here. Did I ever regret the affair? 50% yes, it was the lowest of all lows, 50% actually no.

Why do I say 50% no? Because at that point, I knew this guy loved me with all he had and after I regained his trust, and he got me pregnant a year or two later, I felt closer to him than ever before. I have told him this, he knows all about it.

The part I can't quite recall is how long did it take for my romantic love to return. It took a while, I was pretty awkward around him, he constantly watched me. But I believe that him standing by me firm, supporting me through a terrible mistake restored it maybe. But I also WANTED it back, I realized I wanted him.

Now we had more time then to work on us. We went out all the time, less work, no kids, more recreation time. Now, there's no time, 2 kids and he doesn't even want to go out with me.

I'll just sit here and get my MB beatings from everyone.

But here I am living proof, you can fall back into love, the difference is I was willing, I put in the effort. My H seems not to have any effort.

So Lee, there's the advise from one who has walked the walk.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by m01069:
<strong>I'll just sit here and get my MB beatings from everyone. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't get any beating from me ... I don't judge people. Thanks fr posting it it makes sense why you want to ask him to come home. I would advice you the same thing if you post this earlier.

People made mistake ... it is not about the mistake but what are they going to do about it ?.

-rh-

Redhat, anyone else out there

I don't even like the Emotional Needs forum anymore. They are getting WAY too deep for me. And that just shows how many different opinions are out there.

Here's where I sit, H and I had a little talk during his break. I expressed to him that I feel the way he is acting, ie..cringes when I touch him, calls me by my name, hugs me like a "friend" , etc.. is coming unaturally to him. Like he is forcing this new behavior. Prior to the bomb his ways were natural, comfortable. And now when emotionally I drop, that's when HE comes back, holds me like always. He admitted to forcing some of these "colder" behaviors because he say he too doesn't want to go back to the way he was. He is still concrete that his acting like he was in love all these years was just that, an act.

He keeps telling me to stop thinking about tomorrow, concentrate on today. I told him that it is hard when he is being so distant from children and I. He can't see the distance between him and the children, but I do. He thinks they have never been closer. I have tried going to the store, or leaving the room when he's home. When I go to the store, he does nothing with them, and when I leave the room, the same. He only meets their immediate needs.

I feel very trapped, and apparently so does he. My love bank is in the red also now, has been for a few days, but I keep fighting it. I don't even look forward to him coming home now. I guess now I know how he's felt for a while now. I said to him that there's no happy ending here is there? He told me to stop looking for an ending.

I have two beautiful loving girls here that have had years of "dreams". Everyday they talk about when we are going to Disney again (we went in Dec), when the barn is going to be built for horses and how much they love their house and neighbors. I keep fighting along for them, but how much more can I take before I emotionally have a breakdown?

My H started reading this site one night with me. We read the Intro, and got up to the love bank. He said everything made sense in the site, but it didn't pertain to him. He is different. I couldn't even ask him to elaborate, because I know his answer "I was never in love with you"

Redhat, this hurts. If this is true, I have led 1/2 of my life in an unknowing lie. How much more of my life do I live in a consious one?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by m01069:
<strong>Redhat, this hurts. If this is true, I have led 1/2 of my life in an unknowing lie. How much more of my life do I live in a consious one? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the biggest problem of BS is expectation !. When your expectation is unmet you start to attribute to measurement of how much WS love you. Be patient and give it time and consistently doing the same thing.

Here is Harley's premesis ... If H let you to filling all of his needs, you avoid LB, spent time alot together to filin needs and be honest with your communication (create emotional intimacy) ... H would be in-love. In-Love feeling are creatable ... all he needs to do is let you.

Hang in there and don't have any expectation for now.

Now how long you have to do this ? ... as long as your mind willing to. There is a time when you have to cut the cord ... He might be a freeloader or renter in this M and never wanting to be a buyer.

-rh-

Redhat

Thanks...I am trying to meet EN's, H says trying too hard. We see each other for maybe 1-1/2 hrs day between jobs, Sunday he should be home around 1 pm for the day. Do I push affection? We were ALWAYS affectionate prior. Now it's like I'm a stranger touching him. But he did admit that a lot of his behavior is "forced" and not natural right now. I'm afraid these "forced" behaviors he is showing will become habits.

Communication is very open, honest, not demanding, well not TOO demanding. When he said he couldn't PROMISE to always be faithful, I got pretty demanding to that one, but that was last Sunday. I cry a lot, that's when he seems to come back to me, let's his guard down.

Emotionally I have always been very fragile. My feelings get hurt at the drop of a pin.

Do I continue to show affection?

Could I relay my sexual frustrations?