Tell yourself that he is an addict, that he has to hit bottom, and that the MBW is the classic "intervention". This is your best shot.
You have 9 days to last through. Let him do what he is going to do.

In the years that follow, you'll be glad you stuck to this no matter what the outcome because you won't have to deal with the guilt of having ended the M (not having the Christian commitment to M, not being able to forgive, etc.). What I see of MB is very impressive. I go into each lesson wondering how we could possibly get through it, and face problems that seem to have no solution, and things seem to work out.

You have 9 days to hang on. Keep posting... I feel for you like you wouldn't believe. I never went through what you are going through, but I suspected and he told me not to call OWH and so I lived with thinking I was going crazy... it was all so horrible ... and yet two years later things are much clearer and more tolerable...

Can you believe that I actually lay in bed praying that our 4 month old would die of SIDS... since he was blaming her for being so upset, he didn't want a fourth child... You can get wrapped in fog...

Please hang on and keep posting...

Cherished, you are so right. You give me hope. Did you say that things actually worked?

My situation probably is slightly different. WH didn't want to commit like yours. He just want a D. What do I do?

Should I just let him do whatever? If he hand the D paper to me, do I just sign it?

No, you don't sign it. Tell him you don't want a D.

Believer, I don't know how D works. If I don't sign the D paper, then I won't get a D? Or if he files, it will automatically D. I don't know anything.

But at least, there is no action. We still have all the joint accounts, all his stuff are still here. I really don't know what to do.

Just got a voice message from him. He said he is home(he still calls it home), he was going to ride bike with S. All the things he did give me mix feeling. He did so much to hurt us, then he did other things to make me feel that he is still worthy.

A colleage just walked in asking me to translate some questionares from Chinese. I read it, it is about marriage. She needs to do research. Then I read a Chinese novel, it was about a man who had so many A's, he killed the last OW. But his W and D were still waiting for him. It described when he saw his W, she was strong, self-respect, etc, it made him feel very guilty. He asked for D, finally his W agreed, then he freaked out.

I think that I should learn something there.

Lostnhurt,
The last time my H brought up D was two days ago. BEFORE the A started nearly three years ago now, I wanted us to attend a MBW because I read HN/HN and felt "starved for affection". NO was the answer. I special ordered the workbook and asked if we could go through it. NO. After the A was exposed, I asked if we could attend MBW here in Minnesota. NO. I asked again five months later. NO. Finally, after $6,000 in MC with two different MCs, I said you can go through MB or not but I'm ending the current MC now. He decided he was willing to participate and by then we could get the MB program and follow-up without attending the weekend. That's my story. I heard D many, many times. I also had my MIL telling me I needed to forgive him and an A was understandable because what was the W like that the H would have an A. You know what my response to that was? Oh, and under what circumstances is it understandable that a H beat up his W in front of their children? HIS family felt bad but thought the problem now is I need to forgive him. MY family thinks I am nuts to stay with him and won't see him again ever no matter what. We have had a very rough time of it and not just because of the A, but now he is willing to go through MB follow-up. However, he has brought up a number of times that I'm not doing it right and he quits. I've learned to say "Your choice" because indeed it is. He may quit at any time; however, we are still going along and things are becoming clear.

You have two goals: 1) keep your sanity and your hope, and 2) encourage your H to attend the MB weekend.

He's unlikely to file for D in the next week. He wants to keep attention OFF his bad behavior (an affair, in the end, is simple thoughtlessness) and make it ON yours. How can he succeed? Hmmm... How about this -- I want a D. Maybe that will work.

A friend told me that my job is to make sure he cannot blame me for his behavior.

He succeeded for many years. That's how abused women stay in abusive relationships -- the women think it is THEIR fault that their husbands are beating them up. Well, in this case, guess what? Your H cannot possibly be the blame for his affair. You have to be the blame!

Look, I was so lost that I accepted blame for his breaking my arm, but I knew an affair was not my fault. Where did he go after that? To: you won't forgive me. That again makes me the problem.

Your H is doing what he can to blame you for his behavior. Don't cooperate! Tell him that you want him to be happy, tell him that you think that the MBW can help you two to become happy together, and encourage him to attend. Other than that, what needs to be discussed? YOU have absolutely no ability to keep him away from OW. Don't try. That's his decision and, at the moment, he's made it. He may think he can have you and her, too. Well, you and SH have agreed to stay in Plan A until the MBW. That means that he can have you and OW -- until the MBW. The game changes after that. Then he has to make a decision. If he wants to see OW, PLAN B...

The MBW and follow-up is not some sort of magic bullet that solves all marital problems, but I run into obstacle after obstacle and they seem to be addressable. It's a very structured program of 24 lessons. We are on lesson 3. We may be on it for a while, but that's OK.

I encourage you to eliminate any possibility of his being able to blame you for his deciding against attending the MBW. If he can find an excuse, he may use it. YOU need some reserve to go through the follow-up program to create a great M.

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Chrished, thank you for your insight. It is reallt helpful. I have to refocus myself to GOD. I won't give him any excuses for not going to MBW. I know that is not magical, but at least he is exposed to the concept.

lost, cherised is good, wow! great reply! you know you have the forums to help support you how about more in-person support? family, friends, church, etc.? i know i have tons of support and i feel it but at the same time i just want a hug! from someone who cares, supports, and loves me. my mom is coming up this weekend and i am so looking forward to just hugging her and talking to her. even though we talk on the phone, looking at someone still makes a difference. i was never close to my mom until i moved away from home and have gradually grown closer to her over the years and then we were thrown into overdrive the past few months <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> but hey there's nothing wrong w/that.

i have found that all i have to tell people or ask of people is just to pray for me and my H. i don't need to say more than that and afterall how can they pray for us if they don't know that they should? remember, remember, remember you are in a race and it's a MARATHON, not a sprint! i keep using this analogy but it's so fitting. the next 9 days are the next leg of the race and you have got to stay the course! it's probably easier for me to say b/c i don't have to see or talk to my H everyday and there's definitely pros and cons to that.

i gotta go, i had to stay late at work because i had to take off a couple of hours for tax stuff so i just decided i would stay late and then just go straight to church from work. i'll be talking to the pastor tonight and will probably be going forward for church membership on sunday when my mom is here. God knows what he's doing and we just have to take one minute at a time, yes, that's right one minute. because we never know what might happen. hang in there and prayers to you.

I have what may seem like a dumb question (and is looking too far into the future) for those of you posting to this thread (sorry, LNH, not meaning to steal your thread).

What if WH kept up A forever and never filed for D? I have a feeling mine could do this because it doesn't seem to bother him or OW that he is still M. He's always said if he and I don't work out, he'll never get M again, and she says the same, so there's really no reason for either of them to officially D unless her H wants to M the girl he lives with someday.

I'm not sure WH will ever file on me, even if he never discontinues the A. He'll wait forever for me to do it, so I can be the one who made the choice.

Do others ever face that situation?

LL

I don't think my WH will ever divorce me. He continues to say he loves me, blah, blah, blah. I sure will never get married again.

But let's not worry about that now, let's worry about taking care of ourselves, family, and home.

Dear friends, thank you for your support and encouragement.

We did not talk last night. I was so tired, because of the sleepless night before. But we did watch the movie Nutty Professor, I almost fell asleep. So I did sleep through last night, maybe partly because he was here, I don't know. I got to learn to dettach.

This morning we had a short conversation.

Me: Can I ask you 3 things?
H: What?
Me: Come home. If you don't come, please give me a call. When you are out, please answer my call.
H: Silent.
Me: Yes or no?
H: (mumbleing) ok. nCan I ask you one thing?
Me: go ahead
H: Can we seperate?
Me: No, we are asking opposite things.
H: It is easier for you, so you don't have to wait for me and check where I was.
Me: That is not what I want. I just hope that you can come home and be happy.
H: We are already seperated.
Me: No, that is not true. You just left without telling. It is irresponsible.
H: Why am I not responsible. I took care of the kids. Don't you think I am better than before?
Me: Of course, you are much better. The irresponsible I meant is that you not coming home without letting me know. Not answering my calls. All i want to know is that what your arrangement is, so I can arragange accordingly. Just be courteours. I prefer you tell me where you are and when to go and discuss with me, but you don't have to if you don't want to. My request is minmimum, just inform me. That is it.
H: You should dumb me b/c I am such a bad person.
Me: I will dumb the bad behavior, not the person. Maybe an alien lives inside you now.
H: Let's seperate, you are working to hard. you don't feel good. It is too hard on you. (???)
Me: That is not the solution.

H: Remember long time ago, you went to a trip with two boys of you high school classmates, you told me you want to see how it was wihtout me for sometime. So you can try now, just to see how it is without me.

Oh, that was long time ago, in 1987, two years before we were married. We were just dating. My friends called me to go to the west, Grand Canyon, L. V., LA, San. F., etc, it was about two weeks. Well, those boys could be candidates for my boyfriends too. But there was basically friendship. we knew each other too much since we were 12 or 13. But anyway, I already forgot about that, I didn't know he still remember. I didn't know why he was not invited. maybe just b/c we wanted a reunion.

Me: I want you to be here, but I don't need you.
H: Is that true. In the past, you just need me to do things, be a driver when traveling.
Me: I didn't mean it. If I made you feel that, I am sorry.
H: I know you are nice to me, but I feel that you didn't do it from your heart.
Me: How can I show you that it is from my heart?
H: I don't know. You have to find out. My experience showed that it won't last long either.
Me: Do you want me to be nice to you forever? Ok, first you need to give a chance to do that, second, you need to give the time to see how long it will last, right?
H: You don't have to try so hard.
Me: How about this, I have few days before going to my crusie, then we will go to MBW. Can we try to work a little bit for these few day?

H: What do you mean?

Me: You come home everyday, be a good husband and father, see how you like it?

H: Then we will seperate?

Me:(I almost laugh) Then we can see what happen, if you don't like it, we can talk about what to do next, if seperation really makes you happy, we can talk about it.

H: Ok.

Then we went downstairs for breakfast. I pop a question to him: Do you really enjoy it or it is just a responsibility when you take care of the kids? He said both.

Then he left. We will see what happen. I really have to set my goal low, and look upon GOD. I have to work hard on my feelings and detachemnt.

ALL I CAN SAY IS GLORY HALLELUJAH YOU WERE PERFECT! I am so proud of you! i think you did such a good job and please know that you can look back on that conversation and know you were awesome! i don't think i will be the only one to say this but lady, you're on your way, no matter where the "end" is. you need to reward yourself today and just smile A LOT! now take what happened as what you needed to get you through to the cruise and FINISH THE RACE! God blesses us no matter what happens to us and i wish i could give you a big hug IN PERSON! I will still be wishing you prayers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if WH kept up A forever and never filed for D? I have a feeling mine could do this because it doesn't seem to bother him or OW that he is still M. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly what I am going through as well..I think WS would fence sit as long as I would let him...he seems happy with his situation...carries on in his own space...sees OW when he feels like it but when he doesn't no strings attached as she seems willing to just take the crumbs...as for me he likes to make sure I am OK and wants to keep options open there in case either one of us OW and I pull the plug...WS has the best of both worlds here. but I am not playing this game for much longer...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not sure WH will ever file on me, even if he never discontinues the A. He'll wait forever for me to do it, so I can be the one who made the choice. Do others ever face that situation?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WS has told me he does not want Divorce..I am so mad at times I feel like filing but then I think why should I pay for the damn thing when he created this mess...maybe legal separation is the way to go ...get my finances in order and then see...what do you all think?

Your talk with you H brings up memories from exactly two years ago today for me, when I was finally out of a cast and thinking things were going well with us.

It was a Sunday morning, and we had just had sex. H said, "Maybe we should separate so that you don't have to worry about what I'm doing during the day."

My response: "I'm not worried about what you're doing during the day."

I wasn't. I think it was two days later that I first registered on MB because then I started to worry about why he said that.

That's my story, which is why I am saying this to you: SEE He is doing to you what my H did to me. HE wants to have time with OW and figures that separation is in your best interest which is how he justifies it.

WELL, you didn't allow him to justify his own bad behavior. I can see it coming -- MBW is a point of decision for him, and he is going to work very hard to justify continuing to see OW. He'll say he can't make you happy, see how miserable he's made you these last few months....blah blah blah.

DON'T TAKE THE BAIT!!!! Let Harley's program work on him, focus on the program, and see what happens. Basically, it is up to him. He is doing something so reprehensible that he will want you to be responsible, so your goal is to make it clear that you think you can be happy with him and you will do what you can to make him happy BUT it is up to him whether he is willing to work on your M.

RR, thank you so much. But I don't put any expection on his words at all. You know how a WH behaves. I will just keep my eyes on GOD.

N.O., don't be the bad guy. Wait for him to file. Seperation maybe a good solution.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That's my story, which is why I am saying this to you: SEE He is doing to you what my H did to me. HE wants to have time with OW and figures that separation is in your best interest which is how he justifies it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WS told me when he decided to move out that he needed space and time to think things over...what he really wanted was to continue A without any scutiny from me...they can come up with many excuses why they leave but in the end this is why...

i'll just pigtail on my first reply today to say that what you did was good, when i read what he said i just shrugged it off as typical fogtalk. I know you can't expect too much from him but feel good about what you did and said at that moment. remember how you were feeling so bad about calling him? well look how well you picked yourself up! YOU keep up the good work because YOU are making progress and YOU are still in the race. prayers to you.

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

Oh, ladies, you are so right. he told me that he want to be alone to think the things. I told him that he can be alone to think if he is home. I will NOT agree a seperation, it is and will be his choice if that happens.

Cherished, how did you learn all these wisdom? BTW, did you seperate? How did you keep him home? Does he still have A?

Lostnhurt, We are JUST at the beginning of recovery two years after A was exposed. That is not typical. We did separate for two months -- I threw him out of the house in September, 2002. A was exposed in May.

I had been in Plan A, doing badly, all during the A and ended up in IC convinced that this was my problem. What more can you expect from a woman who took the blame for physical abuse?

It took a LONG, LONG time to come out of the abuse fog. The key was realizing that HIS choices are HIS choices.

HE chooses an Affair, HE chooses separation. YOU are willing to work on the M.

If you can get into the program, and he is willing to end contact with OW, the program itself is a systematic way to address problems.

I am realizing that I gained 60 pounds (since beginning of M) to keep myself from having an affair because I was so deprived of affection at home. I gained 40 pounds in the last two years.

Keep up the good work...focus on what you can do and the MAIN thing is to volley back to him any attempts on his part to justify his behavior by pointing at you. And keep in touch...

Cherished, you have gone a long way. I really admire your strength.

But sometimes, I don't know what I should do. I am very confused.

I am listening to some messages from internet. It is about the ways how a coule can work under GOD. She said that you think that everything you do is for GOD, not for human. Maybe that is what I should do.