Found out my Wife was having an affair about 3 months ago. Found the MB web site, and have really found it to be a god-send. Confronted her and was able to get us into couseling. Told her parents and any other persons that I thought could have a POSITIVE infuence on her about the affair. Didn't blab it all over the town; YET....

The OM lives 1500 miles away, she has seen him a couple of times briefly in the last 8 months, but it appears to be an EA. At least she says it is. He is divorced, and has kids. They dated in high school, and met at a class reunion. According to phone records it all started a couple of days later.

In counseling, we determined that we (my wife and I) each had personal issues to work out before we could work on us. My wife says I am verbally abusive, and she hates me, is afraid of me, and she has been unhappy in our relationship for many years.

I have had several major personal tragedies hit me in rapid succession over the last ten years. I had quit communicating with anyone about anything really important, especially her. It hurt too much to open those doors..... Am I abusive? According to the counselor No. According to the OM's mother I am very abusive.(Yes the OM's mother is influencing my wife about my abusiveness. The woman has never met me. She seems to have a marriage agenda for my wife and her son.) Did I need professional counseling to get things off my chest so I could start communicating with my wife again. Absolutely.

Now here we are. Neither one of us trusts the other. I have been doing plan A and some 180 for all I am worth. My WW is just sitting on the fence doing nothing that I can see. I have questioned her about the affair. She still won't admit it was an affair, only a "friendship", despite the 2" stack of e-mails, plane ticket receipts, and 600+ cell phone calls between them. She says it is only a friendship that got a bit out of hand (ha, HA!).

I have been doing everything I can to "tune up" myself and my life and show her someone that she would like to patch things up with. I feel better about myself than I have in years (good part of plan A!). I have kept my LB to a minimum.

After two months, we are at the point where we can go to the gym, or do things together,take the kids to do things, but as soon as the conversation moves beyond "small talk", she clams up, or gets angry and starts hammering on me again about our past marriage problems. Nothing about the future, nothing constructive. No meaningful conversation. In her version of our marriage, all the problems are my fault (revisionist history <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . There is no mention of the Affair. Ever....

I can't tell if she is still communicating with the OM, but I suspect she is at least a little. She has said before that her "friendship" with him is important, and his dad has cancer, and she will keep in touch with him no matter what I say. I think the fog has lifted a little. She now admits that the relationship with the OM could have never worked.

After two months of being very good, I finally had a meltdown and let my Love Busters come out the other night. I am at the point that I don't know how much longer I can keep doing things without getting any response. I have been doing my best to meet her half-way to try and patch things up, but I am getting nothing back.

Currently she is:

-Living in our home.
-I am paying half of all expenses plus MORE.
-I am living outside the house (at the advice of the counselor who says my wife is tramatized, and really believes she has been abused.(if you want the details of my "alleged" abuse, then please ask. The counselor has cleared that issue up for me, and I am comfortable with who I am. Not perfect:)NOT an abusive monster
-The kids are home with her almost every night. (not tucking them in, and living with them is killing me). I do see them daily and am really involved in their lives.
-I have made sure that things are fixed, scheduled, and taken care of, everyone including my wife is being entertained (we went skiing last night).

I am doing my best to meet her needs emotionally, financially and otherwise. My question... are things too comfortable? Does she have any motivation to work on things?

I still love her, but no movement on her part for months is starting to eat at me. I am starting to lose a lot of that love....

Last weekend after my angry LB blow-up with her, I made a demand of her, an ultimatum if you will. I meant every word.

I told her that I didn't think she was trying. I told her that we needed a different path, or I was going to file for divorce. Nothing substantial was happening. She replied that she was also finished, she called me a FU**** and said and she was going to file for divorce today. I told her that her language could be taken as "VERBAL ABUSE" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I also told her she had some choices to make, I explained from my perspective what those choices were, and left.

1. She could file for divorce . I didn't care, I felt I had done my best to work on things.

2. She could take a couple of weeks and read "His needs Her needs", and we could start doing the excercises, and communicating. And I would give her more space and time.

3. She could purpose a different constructive path to take. And I would give her space and time to work on her plan.

4. In the near future I was going to file if nothing constructive seemed to be happening.

Was I out of line???? I know I shouldn't have gotten angry....

I am about ready to throw in the towel. I can't seem to get any commitment from her to try and resore our marriage. I know if we work on it that it would be a great "second" marriage for both of us. We are both good people, and we have fun with each other.

Can I get some advice, or at least a pep talk from someone? Am I being too impatient? Help!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Is it time for a modified plan A, or a plan B.

Thanks!!

You should try to stay in Plan A for a little longer. I would like to hear more about your alledged verbal abuse.

Yes, I agree. More Plan A but STOP those LB's,DJ's,and D discussions! You are too early in the game here to be discussing a divorce.Think of your children.There are NO modified plans here at MB either.

Also,review and study your Plan A objectives soldier! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

O

New to MB: What is Plan A/Plan B? Where do I find the guidelines. I think I need some insite.
Thanks!

BBQ,
your therapist may feel that it's beneficial for you to be outside the family home but how about your legal rights (how does the word desertion sound?)not to mention how your children must feel...abandoned maybe?!

look defusing the anger is good...which i think is the reason that your therapist suggested the seperation but this is obviously not having the desired effect on either of you. instead you sound more frustrated then anything else and that frustration seems to be causing you to act in ways that are counter productive toward achieving your stated goal...which i assume is to save the marriage.

as for the ulitmatums, you better be sure that you intend to follow through otherwise you will have achieved nothing but the opposite of the effect you intended.

if it were me i would move back into the house. while there i would adopt a totally disinterested yet friendly and congenial attitude. i would make no demands what so ever on your wife...none. instead you should plan to interact with extreme civility...no yelling, screaming or arguing at all.

in the process i would begin to plan my life...a life socially seperate from her's. i would also be very careful when it came to money. if you're to sole contributor to the family income, then i would be sure that she recieved only what she needed to run the house hold. and to be sure, that means no money for trips or vacations on her own.

as for speaking with her little "soul mate" or the "soul mate's mom," let her do what she wants...you can't police her and you can't make her do what's right according to your rules...so disconnect...i would just make sure that she respected the confines of the family home. and the exposure of your children to the situation.

from that point on i would just wait. if she approacheds you AND ONLY IF SHE APPROACHED YOU...would i have a relationship discussions. and at that point, i would make it clear as to what you feel is appropriate behavior on both of your parts.

one last point. if she were to divorce you, does she really think that you would allow her to take the children and move them 1500 miles away from you? if she does, i would disabuse her of this notion forth with.

make no mistake, all this talk about abuse and everything else...all her little plans...this is fog talk and nothing more.

coach

Thanks guys, I am getting much more focus on this. This is a marathon, not a sprint!!! I havn't been being patient enough. Also, as someone else on the board said..You have to become a plan A Warrior!!!

I am seeing some chinks in my WS's armor this week. I backed off from her, and she has called me and asked me to go have coffee and talk, and we spent an entire weekend day together shopping and had lunch together. I suggested that we go to a concert next weekend, and she accepted. We are taking baby steps, but they are baby steps away from the abyss.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess I will back off a bit more and see what happens. It is nice to occassionally see her old smile come back.

If anyone wants to read a useful book try this one. I have been digesting chapters of it for the past week or so, and it has really helped. You can print out the chapters from this web site I found. The premise of the book is kind of like applying a plan A to your entire life and all your relationships. Interesting reading, but you need to chew it up a bit. Not easy to eat in one setting:)

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/books/020821bondsend.html

Good luck with the concert.

Thanks Ocean, but my wife decided that the concert was going to be too much. Right now, it seems to be the right thing to do, not going. She needs some space. It would have been really fun time though... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Oh, well. I'll look to the future, pray a bit, and keep working on making myself a better person. This plan A stuff can be addicitive! Even though I am getting very little back, I am finding it very nice to at least be able to meet some of her needs. Her smile is infectious. She really is a special person deep down. I wish I had told her that more. I suspect if she ever opens the door a crack and has the courage to look out, that we might make a really neat new life together, and we might both suprise each other a bit. I know that I am a different person than I was three months ago. Unfortunately, I am a rowboat with one oar right now. Circling..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We had a really nice dinner together this evening with our kids. It's the little things I guess....

Well, I digress..I guess:)...Chin up! Onward and Upward!!!!

Hang in there BBQ.Like you said,baby steps,no giant leaps for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Rome was not built in a day,as someone mentioned.You are in this for the long haul.Just remember to pamper yourself here and there so you don't get lost in the fray.

O

Thanks October,

Sounds like you and I are on a similar timetable. I haven't had to Plan "B" thank goodness!!

Today, I felt some genuine progress between my wife and myself. I think we both had a really nice time. She made a great lunch, invited me to come over and eat, and then we went on a 7 mile hike on a new trail by our home. Then we came home and I grilled burgers for everyone and we sat and talked for two more hours! While I don't yet consider us completely out of the woods, I am at least a tiny bit encouraged. (maybe we can get to the "In Recovery" part of the board eventually:). We both seem to be doing positive things for each other and trying to get things working again.

I think it is hard for both of us to start trusting each other again. She does say that she would like to work on patching things up, but it might take some time.

We had a very honest and open conversation this morning, and that was good; it wasn't easy though. I guess that comes with the territory. I was a REAL jerk to her before this all happened, I was angry, grouchy and tense all the time. My job had me tied up in knots. I had shut down emotionally and closed myself off. I said some horrible abusive things to her that a person shouldn't say to anyone, let alone their spouse. I could have just as easily had the affair. We were a disaster waiting to happen.

She really doesn't want to go back to the old life we had, and is a bit tentative still. I don't blame her, and I really don't want that either. I can't go back there. Yuck!!

It will probably take some time for both of us to open up again emotionally, we have bruised each others hearts pretty good. I don't have a lot of expectations right now, and no timetable. Just walking in the sun with her talking about nothing important is enough. Maybe that is the way it should always be anyway???? I would like to move back home though, hold her hand, talk, and maybe give her a foot massage after a hike. I don't think I am ready for much more than that. I miss my kids a lot, but I feel like I need to respect her request for space and give her as much time as she wants and needs. Whatever it takes.

I do think me living at home would help us connect again. Living together might help her realize that I don't bite....much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , and I really am forgiving her and moving forward.

Today my wife seemed genuinely happy for the first time in a long time. It made me really happy to see her that way. That's all I ever really wanted anyway. It's funny how we get off track from such a simple goal. When we marry someone, isn't happiness the only real goal both people should have....????

I guess we (as a couple) are going to have to learn how to have fun with each other again. We have been spitting, clawing, and biting at each other for quite awhile. Blaming has become a habit. Both of our priorities had gotten out of wack. Bad relationship habits need to be identified and made to go away. Hopefully we can use the MB books to learn some new and better techniques for communicating.

We seem to be starting with honesty. She told me about the A today, and she seemed very sincere. I really believe what she told me. I appreciate that it was a very hard conversation for her to have. Her honesty really helped me. I can move forward now without wondering. I think I have lived with her long enough to sense her moods, and she was genuine. It felt really good. Healthy!

With 3 kids, you feel guilty about carving out a chunk of time that doesn't include them. We didn't do that for several years, and that is part of what caused our marriage to implode. What I am understanding now, is that making time for your relationship with your spouse is NOT optional, and it is as important as air and water to a marriage.

The book I reference above has helped me a lot. Maybe it can help you and your husband. It is also is a pretty good handbook for life in general. I am glad to hear that your husband is wanting to work on things. That makes for at least two nice things that are happening in the world today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Keep us all posted. The more happy endings that people hear about, the better.

Sounds like things are much better now. Try to go out and have some fun together. It is true, we forget to have fun after going through something like this.

BBQ,

What a nice story.I know it sounds all wonderful,just keep yourself balanced.

Remember,most BS recover faster than the WS regarding the realtionship needs so for many of us,we wait for them to "catch up" to where we are in terms of implementing all the new info we read and absorb.I know you won't but don't rush her,let her take her time and wait to move back in when she is ready.You will have given her the time and space to feel good about that decision when she comes to it.

I know what you mean baout the kids and not having enough time as a couple.That was a big one for us and also my WH working habits kept him away from me/family much too much.Hopefully that will change now.We shall see.We also have beat each other up emotionally,especially my heart,it's going to take a long time to recover.Ugh.

I did check out that site you mentioned,didn't get the book though.I have read so much that my brain is overloaded on Infidelity information.For that I need a break! LOL

Hang in there,your doin fine!

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

October,

I know what you mean about info overload. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I need a brain vacation. Downtime is good!!!

Have a good day. Keep us in the loop.

BBQ-

Please give us an update. Are things still going well?

An update...

Things seem to be keeping on a level. I had a very hectic day at my job, and then talked to a good friend whose mother-in-law is dying of cancer. He was writing the sermon for her funeral which will be very soon. He seems to be doing OK. His story brought back some memories for me about my own mother's cancer, so I talked a little to him hoping that my experience might help a little. I will see him in a couple of nights, so maybe we can talk a bit more. My problems seem tiny compared to his. He also has been out of work for about 8 months. Talk about a double whammy.

I offered to watch the kids tonight so she could go to a Bunco party. She went and seemed to come home a bit happier. I like it when she smiles. We also took the kids out for pizza for dinner, and had a funny time with them. 3 crazy little kids eating pizza, knocking their drinks over, being silly. We adults should take a lesson from them, we take life waaay too seriously:)

I did e-mail her today and asked if she wanted to grab a quick bite to eat tomorrow night. She seems to want to. We both have errands to run in the same general part of town, so we should be able to hook up pretty easy. I think tomorrow is FAT TUESDAY, so hey why not celebrate a little!!! Maybe we can both let our hair down a little and loosen up a bit.

It is really difficult for me right now. I guess this this is still the normal emotional roller coaster ride we are all on .... I see the MC in a couple days. I need to bounce some things off of her and see if she can help me work though them. I feel that what I am doing is good for me right now. By now, the old me would have curled up in a ball and internalized all of this. I would have been angry and sullen. Now, all I want to do is talk about things with people. I feel healthier mentally; and deep down, happier than I have ever been in my life. I laugh a lot more. I have a very different perspective on things than I had a couple of months ago. My values on what is important to me are starting to shift and change, maybe grow. Very scary stuff.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know that my wife is probably going through a rough time also, she really doesn't want to break off this relationship with the OM completely yet, but she doesn't say much. She did say that she told the OM that he needed to try and work things out with his wife before their divorce is finalized, and he agreed. To me, that seemed very positive. I am proud of her for saying that to him. It takes courage to speak up and say something like that that to someone you still have strong feelings about. Very healthy stuff for everyone involved!

I guess I have rambled enough. I will keep at it doing what I feel is right. That is the way!! Thanks for the support, it is invaluable.

Good - sounds very promising. Your dear wife must stop having contact with the OM though. It is not enough to tell him to work on his marriage. As long as they have contact, neither one will be really engaged in working on their marriage.

It does sound like you are getting much stronger. You will be the leader in restoring your marriage. It is good to see a man stepping up to the plate.

Believer,

I guess if you want to see stepping up to the plate, check out my post on the divorced\divorcing forums. My wife has started posting there under the name Oceangirl. Jump into the discussion if you feel like it and comment, I hope a healthy debate will insue....

This evening I discovered that my wife was posting on the MB site, and had posted a response to my comment I made last week about going to a concert with her. She didn't tell me who she was in her post, which was a bit unsettling. OCEANGIRL is the user name.

Never a dull moment anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I read her post, but think I will stay off her thread. It is quite obvious that she is having an EA. That is why she has no room in her heart for you.

However, let's talk about emotional/verbal abuse. You say that you are not abusive, but from her point of view you are. So let's assume that you are. Have you gone to any kind of anger management counseling?

Your wife should be honored and cherished. If you call her names, or say you will kill her, that needs to completely stop. She needs to feel safe with you. That is probably one reason she is having an EA - she feels safe with him.

You are going to have to let her take care of her part (by having NC with OM). You are going to have to take care of your part by making more changes.

Please continue on the MB Plan A. Change the only person you can - YOU. Whether you restore your marriage or not, you will come out ahead.

Hello Everyone,
I am BBQ's Wife. I have a posting on MB in the Divorced/divorcing section. I feel very violated by BBQ AGAIN! This is a pattern for him. He can can continually place blame on me for the recent problems in our marriage, but has difficulty admitting that he was drinking 8-12 beers in one sitting, he would call me names, tell me I was selfish, a B****....instead of rehashing, please feel free to read my posts, have papers ready but put off filing (in divorced/divorcing). The only focus that he has is that he believes that I have had and continue to have an affair. I feel very strong at this point and have been numb and dead inside for many years. It was my way of coping and "making it". It was my fault that I didn't become stronger sooner. I have recently been called a liar, been told I'm the meanest person in the world, the list goes on. After a while you begin to believe all those things and move on with your life. Well, please read my posts. I don't want to bash him.

OK,I have read both your posts and you two need to stop this blame game and get into some joint counseling if you believe there's even a shred of hope.All that is needed to be on the road to recovery is two willing partners and THEN let a **counselor guide you through the treacherous waters because neither of you is doing a very good job of it now and resentment is building.

We are not professionals here and can only give you advice based on our own experience and knowledge.It's turning into a "he said she said" ping pong match and that isn't going to help anyone.

When you are both calm,think seriously about letting a *trained professional restart the dialogue between you.

O

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>