I wasn't planning to do this tonight, but she called and wanted to talk about the fact that I had earlier left her a note saying there was something we needed to discuss.

Anyway, I confronted her about finding evidence she is on contraceptives, about her escapades Valentine's day weekend, etc. She had the entire week to plan out what she was going to day about the weekend, but she was quite surprised when I confronted her about the contraceptives.

She finally admitted using the contraceptives just in case she wants to get into a relationship. She said we are no longer married in her eyes and she is doing nothing wrong. This from a supposedly Christian woman who is supposed to know right from wrong.

I would like to say I handled it in the best sense, but I didn't. I LB'd all over the place, said she is deceived and blind and should be ashamed of herself. I then told her that I no longer want to talk to her, given her attitude. You can lambaste me for this, but before I hung up I said I hope she is practising safe sex for the sake of our children.

Aghhhhhhhhhhhh

Shaken -

Join the club. I LB'd big time tonight. I still can't believe some of the things I said. Must be the post- Valentine's Day blues. Lots of members here are in crisis the last couple of days.

Shaken -

That sucks. My WH has told me similar things, why he doesn't feel guilt about breaking his vows.

Of course it is because he hasn't really loved me for the past 15 years, he was just fooling himself. And he slept with her because it was the natural next step since he was in love with her. So why should he feel bad? That is all perfectly logical, isn't it???

Fogese.

I do so much better when we don't talk about R issues. He is not committed to reconciling, and he lives in an apartment. He hasn't filed for D yet because, as he told our MT, his nature is to give people one last chance. He is giving me one last chance. Hm.

Anyway, just try and keep in the back of your head that LBing only encourages WS to focus their unhappiness on you instead of themselves.

I am praying I follow this advice tomorrow at the 3rd (and possible final) MT session when I tell WH that our boys and I will not stay in the Scout Troop with him and OW any more.

Wish me luck. I wish you luck. Come here and post and vent and bounce your ideas off people. You are at the right place.

Amy

Hi shaken,

Don't be too hard on yourself.I LB'd my share last week.It is just such a volatile situation sometimes,it would take a herculean effort not to express how we feel.Most likely your WW didn't agree with your summation of her actions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Well,on to the next act of the show right? Are you going to do Plan B? I know you said you handed her the separation papers,hopefully there was a clause in there that said "Don't call me unless it's an emergency."

Hang in there.

O

What did you say to LB tonight believer? I am sorry, I have been too lazy to read your story. I could hardly focus on work today. Had to chair a 3-hour meeting with 20 people (most of whom I have never met) and was amazed I managed to hold it together.

Now I am sitting at the computer, alone once again, drinking a really nice Spanish red wine. One of the little luxuries in life I am beginning to indulge in quite regularly.

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Shaken -

Join the club. I LB'd big time tonight. I still can't believe some of the things I said. Must be the post- Valentine's Day blues. Lots of members here are in crisis the last couple of days. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi Amy Maree:

How are you holding up today? I feel forr your situation. It is difficult to comprehend how people who made vows before God, friends and family can be so hard-hearted and show a complete lack of remorse for their actions. It is incredibly hard to understand.

What bugs me is not just the lack of remorse, but the statement that "I'm doing great spiritually; my relationship with God is right on". Talk about deception.

Don't forget. Your husband (and my wife) did love you. It MAY be true that they no longer love us, but they are saying anything they can to justify their horrible behaviour.

Like your husband, my wife is absolutely sure we will NEVER reconcile. Unfortunately, she is also in a bad enough mental state that she could be very dangerous (not physically, but financially, legally, emotionally).

Last night I told my wife that she would have had far more honour and respect in my heart if she had been honest with me from the beginning, by telling me clearly that she wants a divorce and wants to commit adultery. I would honestly have better feelings for her this way.

I'll be thinking about you tomorrow. Stay strong.

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> Shaken -

That sucks. My WH has told me similar things, why he doesn't feel guilt about breaking his vows.

Of course it is because he hasn't really loved me for the past 15 years, he was just fooling himself. And he slept with her because it was the natural next step since he was in love with her. So why should he feel bad? That is all perfectly logical, isn't it???

Fogese.

I do so much better when we don't talk about R issues. He is not committed to reconciling, and he lives in an apartment. He hasn't filed for D yet because, as he told our MT, his nature is to give people one last chance. He is giving me one last chance. Hm.

Anyway, just try and keep in the back of your head that LBing only encourages WS to focus their unhappiness on you instead of themselves.

I am praying I follow this advice tomorrow at the 3rd (and possible final) MT session when I tell WH that our boys and I will not stay in the Scout Troop with him and OW any more.

Wish me luck. I wish you luck. Come here and post and vent and bounce your ideas off people. You are at the right place.

Amy </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Dear Octobergirl:

She lied through her teeth, until I presented compelling evidence to the contrary. Only then did she admit to using contraceptives, not to sleeping with someone. It doesn't matter what she says because I know.

With respect to the separation agreement, there is no clause in there about no contact. I am leaving that for the Plan B letter, which I have not yet started, but which I will also send to wife's mother. My MIL and I have always been very close. This must be breaking her heart. However, I doubt she knows about the infidelity on her daughter's part.

I have serious doubts the Plan B letter will work. My understanding of Plan B (and I hope I am very wrong) is that it may only work if you are still meeting some of WS's emotional needs. I doubt I am, as WS has not allowed me to meet her needs for 17 months. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> Hi shaken,

Don't be too hard on yourself.I LB'd my share last week.It is just such a volatile situation sometimes,it would take a herculean effort not to express how we feel.Most likely your WW didn't agree with your summation of her actions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Well,on to the next act of the show right? Are you going to do Plan B? I know you said you handed her the separation papers,hopefully there was a clause in there that said "Don't call me unless it's an emergency."

Hang in there.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi Shaken,

I just wanted to post a quick one here before I go to bed.Plan B is more geared to letting the OM/OW try to meet all of the needs of the WS(which can help to dismantle the A and it's fantasy),you are not meeting any of their needs in person but perhaps at home,like domestic needs or family commitment,etc.These needs were not something my WH OW could ever do because he knew that the OW would never be welcomed into the family or allowed near my girls and therefore she had a big roadblock right there.

My In-laws were crushed too and they stopped speaking to my WH.My SIL continued to talk to him but only about day to day stuff,not he A.She was just as much against it and disapproving as my in-laws.A's take a toll on all family members,it's just awful.

On the don't call you part I was being facetious,sorry.I meant that she has hurt you so much that she shouldn't cause you more pain by even calling.Anyway,nevermind what I said. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'll say a prayer for you tonight as I do for all of us here at MB.Rest well.

O

Thanks for your insights. Hope you slept better than I did last night.

Well, there is no question OM would likely never be able to meet my wife's need to nurture and protect our children. But the trouble is that I would never stop doing that, even with a Plan B letter. In this context, I am unsure it would be of benefit. But, I guess the Plan B letter is more about me than her.

I will put some thoughts together on paper and share them with the group.

Have a super day if you can.

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> Hi Shaken,

I just wanted to post a quick one here before I go to bed.Plan B is more geared to letting the OM/OW try to meet all of the needs of the WS(which can help to dismantle the A and it's fantasy),you are not meeting any of their needs in person but perhaps at home,like domestic needs or family commitment,etc.These needs were not something my WH OW could ever do because he knew that the OW would never be welcomed into the family or allowed near my girls and therefore she had a big roadblock right there.

My In-laws were crushed too and they stopped speaking to my WH.My SIL continued to talk to him but only about day to day stuff,not he A.She was just as much against it and disapproving as my in-laws.A's take a toll on all family members,it's just awful.

On the don't call you part I was being facetious,sorry.I meant that she has hurt you so much that she shouldn't cause you more pain by even calling.Anyway,nevermind what I said. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'll say a prayer for you tonight as I do for all of us here at MB.Rest well.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Shaken -

Well, my MT appointment about Scouts could have been better, could have been worse. But, I think he got the message.

We will meet about it next Wednesday and make the decision.

I wish you luck in finding your clarity with reagards to Plan B. I am still in a holding pattern, and do not look forward to the days ahead when I will have to be making crucial decisions.

Thinking of you. Keep us "posted" on your thoughts and progress. I am interested in your story.

Amy

Dear anyone who cares to respond:

I am feeling that there is only one reason to implement Plan B: It is for me. It is not because I have much hope that it will ever bring my wife back. It can't be for any other reason because the facts as I know them are as follows:

- WS is completely out of love with me. I have not heard ILY in about 4 years, and I know wife has not loved me for about 2 years

- WS admits, quite proudly in fact, that she is now on birth control. She is either already in the midst of a sexual relationship with someone else or is about to embark on one.

- WS has no desire, nor interest, to work on the marriage or even to consider reconciliation. She has made this clear many times

- WS has already moved on with her life. I am now officially in her past, even though we are still married.

- WS has simply not allowed me to meet any of her ENs for 17 months now. The only needs she wants me to meet relate to my involvement with our 4 children, and financial needs that she has.

- WS leads a secretive life. She has abandoned all but one of her established friends, and no longer has much of anything to do with her older set of friends.

- WS has no contact with my family, except my sister, who she sometimes runs into because they live somewhat near each other, our sons are on the same soccer team, they run into each other at kids' school functions or grocery store, etc.

- WS has given up attending church

- WS has no remorse or regret that she has given up on the marriage

- WS is a good dancer and goes to nightclubs on a weekly basis.

As far as I am concerned, there is only one positive thing in our relationship. That is, WS wants and desires me to have as much of a relationship with our children as is possible under the circunstances.

So, having said all this, is there even the remotest possibility that Plan B will even work?

I seriously doubt it.

sadly,

Shaken

Dear Amy Maree:

If your husband got the message, then I think your appointment can be considered a success. Good.

Thinking of you and your decision-making over the next little while.

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> Shaken -

Well, my MT appointment about Scouts could have been better, could have been worse. But, I think he got the message.

We will meet about it next Wednesday and make the decision.

I wish you luck in finding your clarity with reagards to Plan B. I am still in a holding pattern, and do not look forward to the days ahead when I will have to be making crucial decisions.

Thinking of you. Keep us "posted" on your thoughts and progress. I am interested in your story.

Amy </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Shaken -

Of course Plan B works, but not always the way you planned. I have been in Plan B (well, I must say on and off) for 5 months now.

The nice thing about Plan B is that you can look at the relationship much more clearly. I have gotten so much stronger since being in Plan B. You will too.

But it is essential that you start taking care of yourself. You will find that when you do things to raise your self-esteem, you will feel so much better. When I first found out, I was completely crushed. Now I have mostly happy days.
That will happen to you too.

Yes,to add onto what believer said,Plan B's effects can be twofold:

1) your WW will want to rejoin you in your marriage to make it a better one after seeing the positive changes you make within yourself and that you seem to be "moving on" with your life.

2) you have become stronger by seeing what life is like with out WS and you focus more on you and your kids,family and friends and you live as though you are no longer "married" to WS.

Now,each example has the potential to work but the first one may not happen.By the time you have been in Plan B for a while,it doesn't seem so scary or depressing or anxiety provoking that #1 doesn't work out.That's the difference.

There are absolutely no guarantees with any of these concepts here but Plan B is to help YOU.Yes it is sad that your WW might be a "changed" woman and not come back.She has practically abandoned all that she was and knew for a new set of rules,likes and tastes.It is extremely difficult to see that change in our loved ones.

But take heart to the fact that you will continue to be a man of integrity and dignity,your children will always have you and your support and love of them and also that stability.You are a good person and we recognize that.It is not forgotten even though your WW has other ideals right now.

Bury yourself in your children,that works for me.Get on the floor and be a kid again,let them be silly with you.Love them and receive all that love back,make them happy and watch them smile,that is the best blessing that I can think of.

O

Hi Octobergirl:

I definitely see your point #2 happening at some time (in fact it is starting to happen now). Regretfully, I seriously doubt #1 will materialize. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Yes, my children (and work) are my life now. I get teary because I usually only see them on weekends, and this weekend I have decided to go to a men's retreat, so wife will have them.

Wife has not contacted me since our blow-up Monday evening. Not unexpected, I mean I basically told her I don't want to talk to her again. Of course, I also LB'd left right and centre...

My youngest daughter (6) is hooked on the phone, and either answers it all the time or takes the initiative to call me. This is a lifeline, as my wife still needs information from me, and I her, but neither of us want to talk to the other right now. I knew my WS was coaching daughter to ask me certain questions about when I was going to pick up kids for dinner Friday evening and that sort of thing.

I really can't stand using the kids as intermediaries. It is wrong and it is not fair to them. But, I feel I have no choice right now, especially if I am about to embark on Plan B (have not written letter yet - work has been so busy and I have had the emotional stability of a piece of dried fruit.

So, what are my next steps. I guess it is easy to say "write a Plan B letter", but anything else to get me through this period?

Thanks all!!

Shaken

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> Yes,to add onto what believer said,Plan B's effects can be twofold:

1) your WW will want to rejoin you in your marriage to make it a better one after seeing the positive changes you make within yourself and that you seem to be "moving on" with your life.

2) you have become stronger by seeing what life is like with out WS and you focus more on you and your kids,family and friends and you live as though you are no longer "married" to WS.

Now,each example has the potential to work but the first one may not happen.By the time you have been in Plan B for a while,it doesn't seem so scary or depressing or anxiety provoking that #1 doesn't work out.That's the difference.

There are absolutely no guarantees with any of these concepts here but Plan B is to help YOU.Yes it is sad that your WW might be a "changed" woman and not come back.She has practically abandoned all that she was and knew for a new set of rules,likes and tastes.It is extremely difficult to see that change in our loved ones.

Bury yourself in your children,that works for me.Get on the floor and be a kid again,let them be silly with you.Love them and receive all that love back,make them happy and watch them smile,that is the best blessing that I can think of.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I went away for the weekend (planned in advance) and my wife had the kids. Went to a men's conference. After taking the kids for dinner Friday night on my way up, I dropped the kids off and checked my voice mail. Wife responded to the separation agreement. Is not happy with my wish to sell the house. This could be a problem. I am seeing another lawyer this week to see how much of a leg I have to stand on.

I have not said more than three short sentences to her since I confronted her 6 days ago. Twice she has answered the phone when I have called the kids, so I have had to ask for them. The other time she asked for the money I always give her every two weeks and I had to tell her to get it out of the bank herself.

It hurt even more today when I went home to old house to give the kids a hug on the way back from my conference. Found that wife has packed up some of my stuff (mainly books) for me, including our wedding album. I cried in front of my oldest son who was there (the rest of them had gone out) and told him I was sorry for all I had done and for allowing this to happen to him.

He told me I was the best father. That helped. He is so quiet, though, unlike younger son and me. He hides everything and wife and I have to draw things out of him.

I am so sad about the impact my wife's decisions are having, or will shortly have, on our wonderful children. They are so precious and don't deserve this. My wife does not appear to show any shame. Maybe she hides it well. When affairs are found out is it normal for WS to feel shame after a period of time? I confronted wife 6 days ago.

There is good news. This weekend I got re-acquainted with a fellow a couple of years older than me. He asked about me and my wife (not knowing about separation). I told him the news and he told me that "I can relate to you because me and my wife were separated for 6 years, and have been back together now for 18 months".

You can be sure I picked his brain for everything I could. I doubt I could wait 6 years, even if WS did want to re-connect after a time.

Shaken

All I can say is that I feel the hurt you have. i don't understand why the WW want to break a family apart. It is like a knife cutting our body apart. The pain is unspeakable. Hope you cope with it well.