Please help! I need some advice from someone who has been through this.

My husband left us 2 months ago, completely unexpected. I found this site about 1 month ago and have Plan A'd. This weekend he moved in with OW and had the nerve to barge into my house unexpected to get tools, flashlights, etc. to help he and OW move. Then he asked me if I had slept with any of the men I had been seeing since he left. I found out also last week that he has been cashing in our childrens stock portfolio that was set up for their college expenses. Granted it wasnt alot but it was all we had put aside for them. Our first one starts college in 3 years and now I dont even have the first years tuition.

I have decided to file for legal seperation so that the debts he incurs with OW do not become my problem. Also I need to get assets divided and child support set up. He has threatened me in the past that if I do this he will take my house from me. So....even though I know he doesnt have a leg to stand on...it is very frightening.

Also I found out tonight that he is introducing the OW to his grandparents and parents. His grandmother called me and told me she felt very weird about it because he will always consider me her baby girl. I told her not to worry about it because I truly beleive that people like her and my husband will reap what they sow.

How do I handle telling him that I am filing for a legal seperation. Even though he has been horrible to me and tells me over and over again that he will never come home, I still have hope that one day he will wake from the fog and realize what he has done. After 19 year of marriage the man can not convince me that he has struggled through this marriage never loving me but trying to stick it out so he wouldnt hurt me...yea right!

Please give me insight on what I should expect and how to handle telling him.

Resaann

All that he is saying is nothing but fog. Stay in Plan A, but that does not mean you cannot take care of your financial interests.

Hi,

I am sorry you are going through this. Do you have a good MC and lawyer? Get the separation before he drains all the financial means for your family. He is obviously not in his proper state of mind by his actions.

What did his family have to say? Whether they approve or not don't stand in their way. Let them give him a piece of their mind if they feel they need to.

How are the children?

I am going to ask for more support for you from the GQII site. More posters are there.

Can you setup a phone counseling session with Steve or Jennifer? Please read Surviving and Affiar by Dr. Harley and also Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson.

take care,
L.

Thank you for your support Orchid and Believer,

His family keeps telling me he is not the person they know but they will not confront him because they are afraid of completely pushing him away. He has not confided an any of his family or friends since leaving.....he only tell everybody that he has tried for 19 years to love me and to not hurt me but now he has to think about his own happiness.

The kids and I are doing great!...My kids tell me what a fun mom I am now that I am not trying to please their daddy all the time. The one good thing that has come out of all of this is the relationship between my 15 year old and I.

I have not yet read the books I just come here everyday when I get a chance, but I am going to get them. At this point I dont think there is going to be a chance of him coming back, but I would like to read them anyway. My H is a very proud and stubborn man, he would never admit guilt, fault or ask for forgiveness. He never said he was sorry for anything in 19 years of marriage.

Resaann

The program here works. Read on the home page the quick clicks section about how affairs start, and what to do with an unfaithful husband. Start in Plan A, and do it for several months.

Actually it is good that he moved in with OW. That is likely to end the affair sooner. Continue your family life without him. And remember, most come back, and they are not sorry at first.

Holy Smokes!

Resaann,

I am sorry that your WH is treating you this way.I would be SO offended if WH asked me if I was sleeping with other men! How dare he? What a sicko.AND your WH is now going for the kids college tuitions?? My jaw dropped on that one.

Get to Lawyer asap! You need to hurry up on that issue.I am glad you are going to file for a legal separation.This man is definitely going forward with this A full blast.

Keep talking to your in-laws and his family about your feelings and what you have learned.If they can put any pressure on him and this OW to stop the A by NOT accepting it,or at least making it difficult,you stand a better chance to get him to come out of the fog.Tell them all about how this is affecting your kids.

Also,tell them that the more they enable him the more deeply embedded he will be in this A.I'm not saying that you beg and plead to have his family disapprove but do tell them how you feel.My in-laws and SIl were a BIG help in not enabling my WH and his OW.It made a big impact on him,that I know.If the OW is married,I hope you have told her family as well.

Meanwhile,like the others have said,get busy taking care of you and the children and get your legal rights in order.

O

Dear R,

Sorry I wasn't able to post your thread on GQII yesterday but the site crashed on my computer. I will do it tonight. You sound much better.

Read the concepts section above. Right now you need to work on strengthening and improving you. Your H will continue to act like a jerk. Know this and plan well.

Love your children with all your might. Let them know that you have not abandoned them. Do not stop them from sharing their feelings with their dad. Don't make excuses for him and don't shield him from anyone.

take care,
L.

Hi there and welcome to MB

You do not need to tell your WH that you are filing for legal seperation at this point just go along to get some advice at this stage and know what your rights are. You will feel so much better once you have done this because you will know where you stand and his threats will not be worth anything. Is the house in both of your names? As you are the main carer for the children and are still on the home your WH will not be able to force you out or to sell the home. If you have joint accounts, take out your half or what you need and get the bank to close these accounts. Get your own accounts etc. Once you have sorted your finances out you will feel so much better and in control.

In the meantime talk to people about how you feel especially his family, show your feelings that way you don't have to ask for their support they will see it for themselves and they may not say anything to your WH and OW but I guess the atmosphere will say it.

These plans are there for you and it sounds as if you are taking advantage of this time for you. It is important that you look at yourself and where you fit in and make changes if necessary to become a much stronger person. Your children will help you and do not be afraid to show your feelings in front of them, they will support you through this tough time.

Things are not easy right now and they seem to get worst before they get better but keep your head held high and look after you. Get out more even if you don't feel like it. Make a list of all the things you wanted to do and never got round to doing it because of time, money, people, WH etc and start doing and ticking off those things. Trust me you will see a light at the end of the tunnel. God bless you.

The legal separation has to take place ASAP. You should swallow hard and just do it, knowing this will anger him, but you have no choice. Think of it this way - ANYTHING you do that doesn't fit neatly into his fantasy world will make him angry. But, consider not telling him anything until you get the legal steps set up. Then let your attorney tell him. Can you get control of your remaining joint assets?

For what it's worth, nothing you have described so far is out of the ordinary with regards to infidelity. Take some comfort in this because this means just about everything you can absorb from this site and the participants in this forum applies to you and your situation.

As to what to expect from him? - just read here and see the bizarre world you have been thrust in to. Expect the same.

So, is it true you have been seeing other men? If so, stop. You can't have it both ways - torn about your H's infidelity while doing it yourself. If not, good. If this is a baseless accusation, it indicates he's desperately trying to demonize you to justify his behavior - a sure sign he's in turmoil.

Please read the post linked in my sig line below and all the embedded posts.

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Believer,

My husband had been emailing me all day telling me he is sorry for his behavior lately, and that I am right he hasnt been paying enough attention to his kids, that he realizes that he has become his father (his father did the same thing and is still living with OW after 10 years) and that he knows he is going to have to pay for it for the rest of his life.

The kids are supposed to go with him this weekend, my 15 yo refuses, and the 10 yo doesnt want to either. I compromised with them and they are going to go for just Friday night and come home on Saturday.

WH contacts me this afternoon and tells me he is so upset that the kids dont want anything to do with him. I asked him if he was ready to hear the reasons why the kids arent comfortable with going with him and he said yes....so I started explaining to him that we love him, but the kids feel odd that when they are with him because he is so emotional and he is usually on his cell phone most of the time. He blew a gasket.....he started ranting and raving that I was making all of it up and planting crap in their heads, etc. The crazy thing is that several weeks ago I told him that the 10yo heard a conversation between him and OW on phone about her getting a tatoo on her butt. He said so what, thats not a big deal and I told him that the tatoo is not a big deal but his child hearing her dad talk to another woman about it initimately was to her. He has admitted the conversation twice!.......Well today he said that he never talks on his cell phone to her when the kids are there and I am crazy. I told him that his grandmother has even admitted that he is on the phone all the time. (he lives with her) Then he started talking horribly about his grandmother and that he is going to disappear and get away from all the stupid gossipers that dont have a clue about what is going on in his life. I told him we werent gossiping we were discussing our situation and our concerns that we have for you. He spewed lots of ugly words and hung up on me.

I have contact OW by email several times regarding different things, so today I emailed her asking her to please talk to him about pushing his family away, that I am frightened that if he is not careful he is going to have a real hard time getting his kids respect back and that he hasnt talked to anyone in his family in a while. I asked her to please try and explain to him that he is going to have to try real hard with the kids.

Well......this is the email I sent her and her response:

OW,

You and WH have started making your life together, but if you really care about him, I hope you will try and help him not push everyone that loves him away, including his kids. I tried to talk to him today because I am having a hard time getting the kids to go with him for the weekend and he wont listen to anything I try to tell him about the reasons the kids give me.
He is convinced that I am making it all up. I am sure that you know of every conversation we have and if you truly look at it beyond the point of view as his girlfriend you will see I have done nothing to you or him in the entire god for saken situation for him to think otherwise. I have tried since day one and will not ever give up hope that one day he will see that he had a
good life and he is going through a bad time that really has nothing to do with me or the kids.

I know that he keeps pushing me away and I have excepted the horrible things he says to me and threatens me with, but to see him getting angry about people around him that are just concerned about where he is going in life is very scarey.

He hasn't had much to do with the kids since he left and when he does come over to the house for any reason, he doesn't really talk to them. They
need him, even though they are upset. Just try to get him to understand that it is going to take a lot of work at the relationship with them. If I didn't care about him, I wouldn't be telling him these things or you, god especially you. But I do care and I am willing to degrade myself enough to contact you for help.

I know he will be angry at me for writing to you, but at this point what does it matter, he cant stand me anyway, and I am doing this for the
relationship with his kids, not me anyway.

----------------
and her response:

BS:

I know you think I am this horrible person that has ruined your family and I hope one day you see the truth and realize that I am a good person and
would never tear a family apart. If you only knew the conversations I have with Al about his children but you choose to not believe the things he tells you. I HAVE never and WILL never keep him from his children. I have told him multiple times that I will not allow him to put anything before his kids. I have absolutely no problem with him helping you anytime you need it and especially his kids. He loves his kids more than anything and he is going to do everything he can to make sure they know that.

I also want to have a good relationship with you for your kids. I know you hate me now but I hope one day you will listen to his reasons for leaving instead of continuing to believe I am the reason.

-----------

well I couldnt resist and here is my response to her:

OW,
Oh, I hear the reasons he gives me for leaving, and if it makes you feel better to believe that for 19 years he didn't love me, then that is ok.
Just remember the reasons he is giving me, it is pretty scarey isnt it to think that 19 years later someone can all of a sudden tell you that he never loved you, especially when all along you thought they did. Try reading up on infidelity in marriages and see what your conclusion is after you have read several journals of the reactions that men have during low points
in their marriages....it is normal for them to say and convience themselves that their entire life has been horrible....think about it...how else could you possibly deal with the guilt if you didn't convince yourself what you have done is for the best.

You are right it is not your fault he left.....it is both of your fault. But that doesn't even matter now. What's done is done, and if he ever
realizes he was wrong, then I will be here for him. The horrible things he says and the wonderful tantrums that he has doesn't change my feelings for him. Especially when I know that the person he has become over the last several
years, is not the person he really is. It is the person that cant deal well with pressure and changes in our lives. I am sure you have been there at one point or another in your life, where you just want to just say screw it!
Everyone comes to those places in life....some choose to work hard and fix it....others choose the easiest and most comfortable way out. He
choose the comfortable way ....of course...he had you wanted to soothe his wounds and make him feel better. After being married so long you grow to not appreciate the person that is there for you the most.

But you did not address anything I said in the email.....

It was a mistake even trying to ask you for help....I never said you were keeping the kids from him,....but just like he is doing right
now.........you are only hearing what you want to hear, and it is an immediate reflex for you to start taking a defensive position.

How you got out of this email, what you did I do not know.....but it was pretty clear I was addressing the issue of the kids feelings.........not mine, not yours, your feelings do not come into play into this at all.
He has stopped communicating with everyone in his life. He doesn't talk to his friends, family or kids about his feelings, only you. Not a very
unbiased audience is it? I am sure you are supportive and tell him wonderful things like...." are you sure you don't want to go back?"....and when he says he doesn't it just cements your feelings of his commitment to you even more. I can understand that. I am sure it is a wonderful feeling. But you have to
admit that there are selfish motives behind you being sympathetic. He would definitely not appreciate someone who talked badly about his family.

I am sorry I contacted you and I should have known that the only perspective you would have on this, is that of your interests. I will not contact you again..... I hope you are ready for the rollercoaster of your life, because the most important thing in the world has always been his kids. And what they are feeling (which he doesn't know, because he is afraid to really
ask without getting emotional and they are going to talk to him when he is like that) is going to take work on his part. Lots of attention and
understanding. FROM HIM, again, this isnt about you, AT ALL!
--------

Well, have many draws from the love bank do I have to take for that.....because give me the check and I will make it out....I needed that and it really felt good!!!!!!.....

I am moving to Plan B as soon as my legal seperation papers are ready, which I hope will be next week sometime. I really hope that all this talk is fog talk, but to be real honest with you, he seems so convinced that he truly never loved me and that he has NO PLANS on ever reconcilling with me. I have tried real hard to do a good plan A...and I think I did, because he was started to ask questions like "why dont I tell him what is going on in my life and the kids?" and coming around every now and then and make excuses as to why he is there and then complain that we talk around him and he doesnt know what we are talking about because he isnt here for all the conversations etc.

I know I screwed up with the letters, but please guide me on what my next step should be before I Plan B next week.

Resaann

Dear Resann,

Well you sound much better than the first time you posted on this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for your H, the fact that his emotions can swing so, makes him a character NOT to be trusted. Therefore, you need to plan how to move forward without him. Not D, read up on plan B more.

Do you have the book surviving an affair? REad it. Get ahold of the book Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson. Between the 2 you will learn how to plan B and handle the fog babble.

Did you read the link in WAT's sig line?

take care,
L.

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid,

Thanks, yes I feel much stronger since the first time I posted on here about a month ago. And now I am having such a hard time imagining him coming back. He is so positive that he doesnt want that and he is obviously moving on and he and the OW are having such a wonderful little life....I know I shouldnt feel so negatively, but I am at the point that I wonder why I keep hoping.

Resaann

res - stop communicating with the OW!!!

You and NO ONE else can reason with these two at the moment. Stop trying.

Why have you resigned yourself that this affair is permanent??

Why have you encouraged your kids to spend time with their Dad when they don't want to??? - in a situation you KNOW is harmful to them???

What have you done in your Plan A???

WAT

Worthatry,

I realize I shouldnt contact her and now I have alot off of my chest, and dont plan to do it again.

I guess I have been feeling more and more that the affair is permanent due to the fact they were friends for 2 years before the A started and now they have decided to make a life together....he seems pretty sure of himself when he comes around and when talking to him.

I told the kids that they did not have to go if they do not want to, but my 10yo D is torn about her feelings so I told her maybe we should compromise and she decided she would just do the one night with him, I think mainly because she misses seeing her great grandmother that she will see when she is with her dad.

What have I done in my Plan A?..........I have invited him to stay for dinner when he comes over and we have nice family talk. I have asked him to join me to watch a movie at home occasionally, which he refuses to do. I tell him when he is around that I am here for him if he wants to talk, because his job is really a nightmare right now. I have finally got him to the point where he actually asked me one day if I was ok...and then of course the next he was a jerk to me. He has been told in many ways and many times that I am here for him when he needs to have a place to be comfortable and talk. Then he started getting carried away with withdrawing my childs college fund, etc. and introducing OW to family. So, that is when I decided it would be best to move to Plan B as soon as I get the legal seperation underway. I am losing my feelings for him rapidly. I know that underneath the hurt and anger right now, I love him immensely but I have been a door mat and my feelings rejected for years now. I have been like a puppy dog, begging for him to work on our marriage and to spend time with me for years now. And honestly he hasnt apologized or said he was sorry for anything he has ever done or said in the last 19 years together. I really dont think he will ever admit he is wrong in the things he is doing now.

Resaann

Plan A requires more than just being nice.

Have you taken a critical look at yourself and identified your contributions to the poor marital environment that set the stage for the affair?

Have you sought from your H his assessment of his emotional needs and how successful or unsuccessful you were in the past at meeting them?

As I said before, your description of him is typical of WSs. Of course he's sure of himself. They all are.

But, if your mind is made up that the affair is permanent, and if you feel your feelings for him are almost drained, by all means go dark (Plan B) when the legal separation is settled.

WAT

WAT,

Yes, I know that it includes more than being nice. And yes I have evaluated what I did wrong in the marriage, and the only thing I can conclude and my WH agrees, is that I was way too devoted to him and needy. I enjoyed be around him all the time and I didnt have any social life without him or hobbies.

He said he had no needs not being meet. He just plain and simply married me and then realized he did not love me, so he kept the marriage going for 19 years to take care of me and the kids and make sure we were in a good place in life so he could plan his escape. Those are his words. I have been to counseling over the last 5 years, even before I had any clue that my husband did not love me, to try and seperate myself a little from him. He has always liked going out after work with his friends, OW was one of those, and he would get angry when I didnt approve. He had me believing for years that it was me that was wrong for not liking the relationships he had with women at work. He asked me to go to counseling to try and find out why I was so insecure with him going out with these people. Boy was I an idiot........he was the one wrong! Now I know that and I have gotten to a place in myself that I know I dont need him, and I will never put 100% of my life into him. I have 2 wonderful kids that I did not spend enough quality time with because I was always trying to please him. If he ever decideds he wants to come back it will be a totally different me he comes back to. I will set guidelines on that fact that if I am not comfortable with something then he needs to be sensitive to that and not just push me off that it is my insecurity. I will not be a door mat for him EVER again. I am a strong sucessful woman that has a great job and wonderful kids that love me and love being with me. My 15 year old for the first time ever wants me around and wants me to hang out with her friends, she says that I am so much fun now and not afraid of what Dad is doing or what he will think about what I say or do.


I will always have a door to my heart open for him....but he will have to prove that he deserves my devotion and love before I will let him in again.

Ok, here is my WH response to my response from the email of the OW....this is why I am pretty sure that there is no hope left for him coming back...

BS,

I started out this email with 3 paragraphs of really nasty writing.. cutting you down to the core, as I usually do.. To see what you write about me really makes me angry. I then decided that I am going to make a change, starting right now.. I am going to fight the urge to angrily debate you on every false and misleading point
you make below and ask you to stop emailing OW simply because I ask you to.. I hope you recognize my efforts to turn over a new leaf
and do me this one favor in response to my new behavior.

I will still calmly rebut your comments.. please understand that I am not speaking in this email in a flame or angry manner, please do not take this as me yelling or being ugly or nasty)

- Reasons for leaving you... you have held onto one reason that I gave you and you don't even have it completely correct.. You don't listen when I tell you so why should I keep telling you? You obviously think it was all for OW and because I was feeling old and needing a young person to make me feel better..
Sorry. but that is not correct..

I have not told OW my whole life was horrible, nor have I told anyone else that it was. I just was not happy.. and I want to be happy..
without drugs or anything else influencing
my behavior.. I want it to come naturally, and it does now... I'm sorry it was not with you, but I cannot change that. It's not a conscious thought. I truly wish you could get your head
out of all these journals you speak of. They are all written by counselors and psychiatrists and they are simply opinions, not fact.. just because it's in writing does not make it true or fact.

I am SO VERY tired of hearing everyone's opinions on why I did what I did.. Everyone seems to know why but no one will listen to the one person who knows... Me...

It's quite frustrating to hear what you all say about why I am the way I am.. I'm really tired of everyone psychoanalizing me to determine what is "wrong" with me...

Do I feel guilty? Yes, I surely do.. Horribly guilty.. for what I have done to you and my kids.. but I was left with 2 choices.. Continue to miserably live a Lie, or Feel the pain of ending it..

Neither was a good choice but one of them had to be made.. Again, I am VERY sorry.. I should have had the guts to do this LONG ago, but I was a coward then, and I guess I still am in

many respects since I have had such a hard time telling you that it is over, for fear of hurting you even more.. I wish I was not so much of a coward when it comes to facing difficult issues.

- Fault for leaving.. OW has nothing to do with me leaving. It is not in ANY way her fault.. I did what I did based upon my own free will..
Please Please Please stop saying she had an part in this. It simply is not true...

- Was I wrong? it's funny that you seem to know what's best for me and that you do not think that I, myself, could have an opinion on what's best for me... you must get this through your head.. I did not work hard to fix the mess I was in because I did not WANT to fix it.. I did not WANT it anymore.. Why would I fix something that I do not want? I'm sorry it involved the kids but I cannot live unhappy any longer.. I cannot fake the smiles and laughter any more.. I just cannot do it.. The mental torture is no longer bearable.. hence my tantrums and horrible things I say to you.. Which I hope you can see me changing now...

Your comments to OW below really hurt me, if that was your intention, you did well.. I'm sorry you feel the need to do to her what I have done to you.. She really had nothing to do with this at all.. I'm asking you nicely to please quit trying to hurt her. She is a really really nice person and she does not deserve this at all.. She is genuinely concerned about our kids and she is genuine in her request to be friends with you.. She has never once complained about me going to the house to help the kids or you either.. Actually, she reminds me to call the kids WAY more than I remember on my own.. Please stop thinking she is some evil person who is trying to keep me from my kids.. it just isn't true..


Once again, this email is being written in a calm manner.. I am not screaming, and am not trying to cut you down in anyway. only trying to state facts...


Al


I think that this is the final slap in the face.....he is pretty sure.....

I guess that will be my H say tome too. I can hear from him. He said that he was not happy. I don't see he is happy either now.

She really had nothing to do with this at all.. I'm asking you nicely to please quit trying to hurt her. She is a really really nice person and she does not deserve this at all.. She is genuinely concerned about our kids and she is genuine in her request to be friends with you..

Believer: Oh my gosh, I'm starting another one of my laughing fits.... Help, help! I'm spewing my coke. This guy is waaaaaaaay out there, even worse than my H.

Believer,

Yes, I spewed too when I read it!....this is why I am having such a hard time with sticking with the program. I want my husband back but I have realized that I surely do not want the man that has lived with me over the last 5 - 6 years back. I have a hard time wondering WHY would he come back . I am 38....the OW is 28....I have a few extra pounds (20- I have lost 35)she is smaller and more petite than my 15 yo daughter....I have kids and responsibilities every day.....she has none....he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants...I cant.

Tonight when I meet he for him to have the kids overnight, I tore me apart......I looked at him and wanted to so badly for him to be loading their things in the car for one of our family outings. We used to have alot of fun together, which he now says was him faking a smile and laughter.

I am not sure he will ever come back and even worse, how do you ever put yourself into a relationship again, knowing that the one you thought you had for 19 years was a farce?