I'm new to this forum but I've been reading the posts, website, and Dr. Harley's books for about 2 months now. I've read SAA and HNHN's. I'm a BH and I first discovered my wife's affair just after Christmas, (12/28/03). Everything out of my W's mouth is classic WS. I've heard, "I don't love you anymore, I'm just staying for the kids, he's just a friend, we need to separate so I can figure things out, I can't believe you invaded my privacy etc". The A is with one of her co-workers. As far as I could tell, it had been going on for about 6 months. I finally confronted her just after Christmas with the cell phone bills, and several "I love you" e-mails between the two of them. These e-mails were particularly devastating for me because they proclaimed love, yearning, and a desire to be together forever. My heart just sank and it hit me like a ton of bricks when I read that. My W of course, has taken up the "smokescreen" tactic, (or fog), and is blaming everything from our failed marriage to the affair on me! Of course, this is just her way of justifying the A.

My W claims that the A is over, but I have my doubts. They're still working together, but she says it's strictly professional. I suggested NC, but she wasn't too excited about quitting her job, and in a way I can't blame her. You see, she has a good paying desk job in the US military, has a lot of perks, a great pension, and she can retire in 13 years, (she's 34). One of her co-workers confided in me that they still go out for lunch or for walks. (The military allows 3 hours per week for "gym time"- you can choose to work out at the gym, run or walk etc.) So apparently, they're still continuing an EA at the very least. She hasn't "snuck out" of the house for any lame reasons for about 6 weeks now. That pretty much ended after I caught her for the third time!

I presume I should start Plan A right about now, since the NC thing isn't going to work. But I still have other questions like, should I contact the OM's W and let her know? Should I contact my W's supervisor and blow them in? I've even considered calling the OM and asking him what his intentions are.

I also have another dilemma concerning Marriage Counseling. We're seeing a "conventional" MC right now. By that I mean that he's NOT a Dr. Harley type who will enforce the NC rule. He believes that if my W wants to continue the A, or if she wants to leave the marriage, that's her free-will and we can't change her mind. However, my thinking tells me, (from the books I've read), that any MC at this point is counter-productive because the A is still ongoing. In fact, it's obvious to me that my W doesn't have any interest right now in fixing our marriage. The counselor hasn't directly addressed the A, but we have begun to work on the marriage problems and it's helped a little bit, but not much. My main problem now is to get my wife to just talk to me. Even though the counselor is encouraging communication, she is avoiding it at all cost. I'm starting to get discouraged.

Anyway, my question is this: Does the conventional "fix the marriage first, then the A will go away" method ever actually work? Are we wasting our time with this counselor? My W of course likes him because he's not addressing the A but is instead working on the marriage problems which goes along with her "smokscreen" diversion tactic.

Any help or input would be appreciated.

Thanks, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

R U paying this MC who tickles your W's ears? I would demand my $$ back and turn that MC in as a fraud. Wonder where he/she got their diploma from. U of A (university of Affairs)?

See if you can do some phone counseling with the Harley's. Isn't it an offense to have an A in the military?

Nothing like reality to bust the A bubble.

Please read the concepts section above and read up on plan A. It does not mean you are a constant door mat. Instead it is about you learning how to improve yourself and then after the WS choose NOT to recognize your efforts (or even say she doubts you will stay better), then learn when and how to implement plan B.

L.

Welcome to marriagebuilders, but sorry you are here. It is a good place to come and read and get support.

I have not gone to MC because my WH is still with OW. To me it is a waste of money. When the A is ongoing the WS is concerned about OP, not working on their marriage.

First you can let the OM's wife know what is going on. That will shed some light on the A. See what happens then. Are your wife and OM both in the military?

Hello to both Orchid and believer and thanks for responding. Yes they are both in the military. I also looked up the regulations for adultery and it doesn't look too promising. First, you have to prove that adutery took place, such as have an eyewitness to the sexual act...that'll never happen. Then you have to prove that either party is married...that's easy. Then you have to prove that someone showed disrespect and/or brought a loss of morale to the military. That is also hard to prove. It depends on the case, and it depends on the supervisor. They could punish either or both parties by taking away priveleges or promotions etc., but they aren't required to.

I guess I should call the OM's wife and talk to her next. I was also wondering about exposing the affair to more family and friends. I've heard it mentioned here on the board, but isn't exposing the affair a BIG LB? LB's are a no-no during Plan A are they not?

Mark

No, exposing A's are part of Plan A. First expose it to the OM's wife. Next to the military. They usually have zero tolerance for A's. But first try the OM's wife.

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

The emails and cell account records can be used as evidence that an inappropriate relationship was going on between your wife and this soldier. You could also show a picture of the OM and your wife to some of the motels in your area and find out if they stayed there.Also inform the OM's wife of the affair. The more you can expose your wife's shameful behaviour the more impact it will have on bursting your wife's fantasy balloon.

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: yosh ]</small>

Finally, I have info to offer someone else instead of just receiving it. I am in the military and, as a commanding officer, have investigated adultery charges more than once, while at the home base and while deployed. In my current situation the OM is not in the military or else I'd have lots of leverage and ammo when exposing the A.
Commanders are required to investigate adultery charges when brought to their attention. The best way to go about getting attention is to call, or go see the soldier's commander (not a captain - company commander, but the field grade officer - usually a battalion commander who is a Lt. Colonel).
At the same time I would contact the post Ispector General (IG) and start an official inquiry. The IG works for the post commander (a General). IG inquiries must be investigated and get the oversight of an agency outside of the soldier's unit. After making these inquiries, continue to contact the commander and IG for updates. Give the IG and commander copies of all of the info you have. Go to the local legal services office and give one of the military lawyers an official sworn statement (keep a copy for yourself, the IG and the commander). The lawyer can advise you of your options and what you can expect of the process.
It is true that adultery must be proven in a fashion which makes military prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), the military laws applicable to soldiers. The more info the investigating officer has, the more thorough his investigation will be.
The investigator will ask both soldiers questions in a formal setting after reading them their rights. They should be questioned separately and will have to give a sworn statement as well. If the investigator has emails which he can use to develop questions, the soldier must either tell the truth or lie. If the soldier lies (and the investigator has emails that show different info) the soldier is then guilty of making a false official statement which is punishable under UCMJ.
You see, the false statement to the investigator usually carries a more harsh penalty than the offense itself. Most soldiers know this and the truth usually comes out. You need to know that the soldier can refuse to answer questions without legal representation being present (the soldier then gets a military lawyer). If this happens, then the lawyers take over the investigation and questioning. The more proof the investigator has, the better legal case the military has. If the soldier refuses to answer questions - the lawyers take over and attempt to prosecute the case with the info. Usually, if the evidence is good, the case will get lots of attention.
If an accusation is all you have, wait and gather evidence. One of these soldiers will give up the goods on the other in order to save their own career and *ss. By the way, anytime the unit must investigate adultery and feels it can prove the case, the fact that this warfighting organization had to go through the ordeal is contrary to the good order and discipline of the unit. Commanders do not tolerate a lack of discipline (like adultery)because they then have trust issues with that soldier. Be prepared, this could end the careers of both soldiers (at worst), or could cause each to loose lots of money. Bottom line: the military does care about the dependents and spouses of soldiers, but most often, the spouse doesn't give the investigator enough info to prove adultery - only an accusation.

Wow! Thanks Apache for all that info. BTW, I assume you are Army by the word "soldier". In this case it's "airman". I'm not sure if there's an IG on the base, but I know who her immediate supervisor is, her Colonel, and the Base Commander. I was thinking of notifying all three. I also know there is a JAG office on base because we had our wills done there years ago.

I read up on the UCMJ regulations regarding adultery, and it didn't seem too promising as far as sucessfully prosecuting a case, because adultery itself is hard to prove. All I have is e-mails that proclaim love and yearning and "I want to be with you forever someday". I also have an e-mail that was written after a business trip that they were both on. That one says, "I have no regrets about what happened/ I don't feel guilty or think it was wrong/ it's a wonderful memory for me...". They don't specifically mention a sexual act, so it could mean anything. But if there is an inquiry and my W and the OM both get questioned in front of their leaders, that might be enough to scare them into stopping the affair. But then again, they both work in the same office, so the contact and temptation will always be there. That's why NC in this case is so hard because they both have good jobs and pensions etc. Anyways, the A will be MUCH more exposed, so I'm sure that will help the A die out that much sooner.

Some generalized advice based on my time in the military...

Forget the IG and UCMJ. The best thing to do is approach her commanding officer without her knowledge and present the evidence that there is an innapropriate relationship. Let her co deal with it in-house and quietly.

And I DO RECCOMEND YOU DO THIS IMMEDIATELY!

Any news to report? Or are you still just thinking about what to do?

Hi Believer; Yes I'm still thinking about what to do. I did talk with the OM's wife this morning and I'm glad I did. She was so glad that I called, but she already knew about it. She only found out and confronted her H last Sunday, 5 days ago. I've known for over 2 months. She had a good attitude though. She said she's going to fight to make this marriage work.

The only thing I regret about calling her is this. I'm ready to expose the affair to more people and even the military, but she's not willing to do anything of the sort right now. She didn't even want to tell her H that I called for fear of getting him angry again. I don't want to get her upset with me as well, especially if someone loses their job over this. Maybe we just need to talk more. She needs to understand that exposing the affair will make them end it that much sooner. I have suggested that she buy the SAA book.

Take your time and be slow in deciding what to do next. Congratulations on contacting OM's wife. My WH's OW's H has been my best support. We still talk often, even after 8 months.

Tell her to check out this site. It would be good if you were both on the same plan.

I hope my message wasn't lost in all the words. ALWAYS start with the commander, but consider using the IG as well. I have seen some commanders handle the issue "in house" by simply telling the service members that IF anything is going on then they should stop. And then things go back to the usual. Informing the IG is the way to ensure a formal investigation is conducted in accordance with regulations. It makes commanders investigate properly until all of the deatils are out. I would like to see these two "airmen" explain the details of the emails, and what they could possibly mean. Conflicting stories create more questions. Even more conflicting answers put folks in jeopardy of getting caught in lies - which is even worse when it happens in a formal investigation - it's called making false official statements and attempting to interfere with an official investigation - two separate offenses. Adultery is no joke in the military, especially when it happens between two married service members. If the OMs spouse is concerned with her safety, let that be known as well. Also, see a military lawyer to find out about your rights as dependent. Have you been married more than 10 years. Has your spouse been in the military that long. Adultery puts retirement in jeopardy as well. No service member ever wants to realize that in today's military, a divorce could mean that 1/2 of their retirement could go to the ex-spouse. You can put lots of pressure on both of them, but it is up to you.