Right after DDay 6/02 I read Harley's book. The most important things to me were #1 Honesty and #2 No Contact. I asked for these two, and WH agreed to do this for me so we could rebuild our marriage.

History:
6/02 DDay (OW came to see me - A was 4-1/2 years!)
6/02-9/02 Continued phone calls / voice mails from OW to WH. I intercepted most if not all of voice mails. WH insists that he never contacted her - she instigated all contact. She finally stopped (or maybe not?).
9/02-9/03 No contact as far as I knew. Went to MC. Things were looking up.
9/03 Found out about phone contact. OW had moved out of state and Nextel National direct connnect showed up on phone bill. WH said she called "out of the blue" one day to "see how things were going". He promised to stop talking to her. I called OW and she instisted he was calling her not her calling him. He insists that the opposite was true. Both said contact was "just friendship" and agreed to stop.
3/04 Found incoming calls on cell phone bill that were repetative (11 in 2 weeks). I called the number and found out it was OW. WH denied talking to her. His "I DO NOT TALK TO HER" - sounded like Clinton's "I DID NOT HAVE S WITH THAT WOMAN"! I called OW again and she again insisted that he was calling her - not her calling him (she just returned his phone calls). I said fine, please do not answer his calls. When I threatened to leave unless he started telling me the truth, WH finally admitted that they had been in contact many times over the last 2 years since DDay. He did indeed call her - but only returning HER calls!? He did not think "my" method (NC) was the best way for him to recover and only agreed to NC to keep me from leaving. He decided to gradually let go of OW and now feels he has. Agreed to NC going forward.

Reasons to stay:
1. I promised for better or worse for LIFE and I believe in that promise.
2. We have 3 children who LOVE us both and need us together. They know nothing about the A. They worship their dad. My 6-yo daughter tells me often that she is so glad she doesn't have to worry about her parents getting a divorce! (She has a friend whose parents are divorced.)
3. None of my family or friends know about A. If I leave it blows it all open and it would make it much more difficult to start over.
4. He says he wants to work it out. He does not love OW - says he loves me (funny way of showing it!)

Reasons to leave:
1. I no longer trust my WH. I know he can lie to my face and I can't tell. I've lost my respect for him. I don't know if I can get these things back.
2. I'm afraid that he hasn't had to face the consequences of his A. I've been plan "A'ing" (with some LB's along the way). Why should he do anything for me when he can get away with doing things his own way?
3. We have this cycle - I find evidence, he lies and only admits anything when backed into a corner, says he's sorry, and I stick around for more. Will it ever stop?

How many times do I put up with broken promises and lies before going to plan B? Plan B will just have so many consequences in my life (children / home / friends) that I have to be really sure it's my only option before going there. I really want our M to last - for LIFE!

Anyone been through this for this long? Is there hope?

In my opinion you need to protect your love for him and go into Plan B. My H has been carrying on for a year, promising NC and then constantly breaking it. I am fed up and have no respect, feelings, etc. for him. Don't let that happen to you.

I am shocked that you have let NOBODY else (family and friends) know this has been going on for so long. I immediately told my parents and had him tell his parents, then only a few of my close friends. Now that WH is in EA with someone else a year later, I let everyone know. May have been a BIG Mistake. Harder for WH to want to come home - emberrased, knows what people think about him, wants to end it, run away and hide. However, sometimes exposing can make the WS want to change. Why protect him and his R with OW? Your only job should be to protect him in the eyes of your children. I think it's time for plan B. You are letting him have his cake and eat it too and there should be a time limit to that and you have given it enough time. I know it will be hard, but move on with your life. NC with WH while he is in C with OW. Go for it! Good luck! JMHO

1. Have you or did you go for MC?

2. Can you afford to counsel with the Harleys or with Penny at SYMC? I would STRONGLY advise either of these options at this point.

3. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He did not think "my" method (NC) was the best way for him to recover and only agreed to NC to keep me from leaving. He decided to gradually let go of OW and now feels he has. Agreed to NC going forward. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the meantime, what is his plan? Put the onus on him...how does he plan to ensure N/C this time? This is not your job to play detective...it is his job to explain how he will commit to and keep his promise of N/C...

just saying he will is no good...he's done that before...trying harder is no good...he hasn't been able to keep his word...

work WITH him to figure out a solution...treat it that way...no LBs...hear what he has to say...

but truly? I think you need professional advice at this point.

best of luck to you...awed

Thanks for the responses.

1. MC - Yes, we did go to a MC for about 9 months. It helped, but we didn't make as much progress as I would have liked. Our MC's approach did not match Harley's and I did not like his methods. I would like to follow Harley's methods WH is (finally) reading Harley's book. He agreed to try to work through the concepts in the book instead of going to another MC. If that does not work - I have another MC to try. We could also try calling Harley - but that would get expensive! Depends how many times we would need to call.

2. Not telling anyone. I did talk to one close friend. Basically I don't trust very many people. My family is close. If I tell one of them, they'll all know. Then their friends will know and so on. I've seen it happen before. I'm afraid WH will run right to OW if he is "shunned" by our family and friends. That's exactly what happened to a friend of his - his wife told family, who told friends. No one would talk to to him anymore so he ended up with his one friend in the world - the OW. I realize that the flip side of this is that the only person he's hearing the right message from is me. I've encouraged him to tell his dad - who I know would support our marriage. So far he hasn't been willing - and I don't want to do that behind his back.

3. I've decided to stick with plan A as long as he is willing to work on things. Time will tell if this time is different.

4. Is is selfish demand if I demand NC when he is not willing to? I did this - I said NC "or else". So last night I told him that I thought that was wrong of me. I ASKED for NC and told him it was up to him. He agreed to NC. Maybe this times he means it.

What you are agreeing to is an open marriage. I hope you will call the Harleys at least once.

Please talk to Harley. Your M worths the money.

I would rather spend $10,000 on MC than on a divorce. Hey you could tell kids you DID ALL YOU COULD and feel good about it. Plus if it works, then you have the person you wanted to spend your life with and chances are if you make it through this you'll be happy. I haven't done MC with Harleys yet but I plan too. I'm wondering if they will talk to me alone if he is unwilling?