I honestly can't see how I can consider reconciliation anymore after what my husband did this week. I believe I would be an unfit mother to ever forgive him now.

Several weeks ago our youngest daughter decided she wanted to try having visitation with her father again. All three daughters had been upset with him and refusing to even talk to him since the end of December - the last time he went back to other woman, breaking all promises he made to them and me. My husband told her she could move in with him and she was considering it.

The separation agreement states that the visitation is at our daughters discretion. But when he resumes the affair he hands all control of visitation over to the other woman. She will only allow him to see his daughters a couple of hours Wed. & Sun. When he's broke up from other woman he wants to see his daughters almost every day. Sometimes they are so hurt and angry at him they refuse. I do not try to prevent them or to force them to see him.

But I was against the idea of our youngest daughter moving in with him only because I was afraid she'd get hurt again. But I left it up to her to decide. I told both my husband and my daughter my concern that if/when he resumed the affair she would be hurt because she would have to go back to just Wed. & Sun. visitation after being told she could live with her Daddy. My daughter said she knew she would probably just get hurt again but said she couldn't help it, she wanted to see her Daddy. she even said she knew he was probably just using her to help with his lonlieness and sadness over breaking up with other woman. Plus I suspect maybe she was trying to make sure her Daddy wasn't spending time with the other woman and her little girl? Maybe she was trying to keep an eye on her Daddy? Sometimes she came home with a big smile and told me he didn't get or make any phone calls. When the affair is resumed he has to check in with other woman by phone anytime he's with his daughters instead of with her. She went through a phase a while back when she watched 'The Parent Trap' a lot...

My husband assured me the affair was totally over and there was no possibility whatsoever he'd ever contact the other woman again (but refused to send no contact letter so I still refused to accept his invitations to go on dates with him or to go along on visitation with daughter). He assured me he wouldn't hurt our daughter.

So I left it up to father and daughter to decide in spite of my concern. So our daughter spent a lot of time with her Daddy for the past few weeks. She was spending 3-4 nights per week at his apartment.

Well, he dumped our daughter on Sunday afternoon. She had gone to his apartment Friday afternoon with enough clothes and homeschool work to last all week. He claimed he couldn't take her to skating as he had planned on Sunday afternoon because he suddenly remembered he was on call for work... As soon as he dropped her off at home he went over to the other woman's place. Then he called here Monday afternoon, asking to speak to his daughter (she refused and yelled at me for even telling her he had called). He wanted to know if she wanted him to take her to skating the following Sunday! This same daughter who was told she could stay all week at his apartment was now being invited to see him for a just few hours at the end of the week. And it must be her mother's fault if she's suddenly upset with her father for 'no reason' OR I must not be allowing her to talk to him - didn't really tell her he called... Jerk!

For the past two days the same daughter tried to contact her father but he wouldn't pick up. He finally returned her call yesterday afternoon. She needed money to get her skates sharpened and he told her no.

Right now I feel like I hate him. Addiction or no addiction he disgusts me. And I would be disgusted with myself to give him any more chances. I can't see how he could ever make this up to us.

My daughters and I plan to move away ASAP and never have anything more to do with the sick SOB.

Until we can do that all communication with him will be in writing and copied to the other woman. I want her to dump him too - for good this time. And I don't want to be around to help him through withdrawal.

I would start making plans and arrangements to "GO ON" with your life with or without him. And I mean financially, emotionally, etc. Do what you have to do. You have to stop depending on him to be your support and take care of yourself and your children. If this means finding a cheaper place to live and getting a better job, then do so. Once he sees that you are "GOING ON" with your life, you will most likely start to notice his behavior changing. How nice of him to have someone that needs him and wants him so much. Once you stop that behavior he will notice a BIG difference and it may be his wake-up call. So keep with your plans to move. If you've had all can take with him, then just "go on". It will make your life so much less miserable to stop wondering and worrying about what he is doing, who he is with, etc. See my post "What I learned in counseling last night". Talk to your daughters about his behavior and what you 3 are going to do to "go on" with life and be happy even though things aren't the way you wish they could be. Hang in there!

Moving on, you are absolutely right. That is the most important lesson I have to learn too.

Hi MovingOn,

I agree with you. My daughters and I want to move on and will continue with our plans to do so now. We don't want to be dependent on him for anything more than what he's legally required to provide. We're fed up with his lies and manipulations. We were planning to move before but he insisted we stay and promised he'd make it financially possible for us to do so. He even broke up with the other woman in February because they were fighting over his giving us extra money so we wouldn't have to move. I discussed with him the possibility that he woudl resume the affair and we would have been unfairly delayed in getting on with our lives. He assured me that wouldn't happen - that she was totally out of his life... We certainly have learned that we can't trust him anymore. We will be moving on ASAP.

I read the list of things you learned from counseling (in another thread):

1. I learned that I CANNOT control my WH.

I'd settle for just being able to trust the promises he voluntarily makes. The problem is he can't accept that he can't control me. I have a right to live wherever I choose (where I can really afford to live without depending in a way that he can manipulate)

2. I learned that there is NOTHING that I can SAY or DO which will make him realize, change his mind or lift the "FOG".

What's frustrating is seeing him come out of the fog, expressing remorse for what he's done, admitting 'they have no future together', making promises that the affair is over 'for good'... but then going back to the other woman again. He's like a Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde show.

3. I learned that I should give over my concerns and worries to GOD.

Absolutely! I need to keep reminding myself that he's not my problem anymore. I struggle with guilt over this because he is still my husband (divorce won't be final until September) and he has some serious problems he needs help with. But if he chooses to refuse my help then there's really nothigng I can do but pray for him and then just try to put him out of my mind. Besides, when he goes back to the other woman, chooses her, it's her responsibility then to try to meet his needs and try to 'make him happy' (which is never going to happen until he gets help - which she's not even aware he needs yet).

4. I learned that I am only making myself MISERABLE trying to keep track of WH - what he's doing, who he's with, where he's at.

Luckily, this is something I've never been the type to do - checking up on him. In fact, a lot of people I know claim that's why he's had affairs - I didn't check up on him...

On the other hand, my husband is having considerable trouble accepting that I don't have to answer to him. He gets upset if my cell phone is off or I'm not here when he picks up or drops off the kids. On a recent evening he said he drove by my house 3 times and my car wasn't there (SO?!? - I was at the drug store and then put the car in the garage when I got home - of course I didn't respond with any info about where I was LOL) And he doesn't like it that I've started going to a support group for separated/divorced people. He also has made comments that I shouldn't date or remarry.

The other woman seems to be obsessed with trying to control and supervise him LOL. She makes him check in by phone during visitation with his daughters - telling her exactly where they're going, which daughters he has with him, how long they'll be there, etc. She dictates how often he can see his daughters and wouldn't even let him go to a restaurant with us (when I was in plan A) for his daughter's birthday dinner. We were meeting at the restaurant at 6PM on a Sunday and he told his daughter it was 'too late' for him to be out LOL!

5. I learned that I should stop all the phone calls, messages, and emails that I send. They are LB's to him. Some are nice, most are not. Plus it makes me look needy.

I agree. During Plan A, the more I called him, the less he called me. It just made him feel pursued (and 'trapped'). What I don't get is how he can put up with the other woman's extremely short leash but yet he 'doesn't feel like' she's checking up on him! Love is blind stuff I guess. I learned that toughest time to resist the temptation to call him is right after you have... and it gets easier the longer it's been since the last contact. In a way us BS's are fighting an addiction too. My husband has admitted he tries to start fights with me and 'remind himself to hate me' so contact with him is rarely pleasant anyway. The easiest way to not get snared into an argument and end up love-busting is to just not talk to him LOL

6. I learned that what I do is priveledged information and he doesn't need to know what I am doing with my time so quit telling him. Make him wonder what I'm doing for a change.
Exactly! This really drives him nuts! As I said before, when he notices I'm not home, and asks me or the kids where I am - I don't tell him anything. I'm not dating (won't until divorce is final) and am usually just at the grocery store but I let him assume whatever. I now leave my cell phone off all the time and just check my messages and missed calls frequently. He hates it.

7. I learned that I need to just be cordial and leave when I feel like I want to yell, scream or rip his head off.
I don't spend any time with him so this part is easy. And he's the one who has the anger/violence problem - it takes a LOT (probably too much) for me to start boiling. When he would get verbally abusive on the phone I would hang up.

8. I learned that he needs time away from me to even get the chance to miss me, the kids, the house, etc.
Yup - The problem is when he's away from the other woman (they break up with extreme frequency - 4 times since end of December) he misses her and doesn't make it through withdrawal.

9. I learned that I need to keep myself busy and happy and basically just move on with or without him. Go to church, pray, talk to friends, scrapbook, clean house, anything to keep busy and my mind off him and what he's doing.
I like this part the best. My daughters and I have lots of hobbies and friends. I've been packing because we have to move. And I've been doing my daily bible reading and devotions religiously LOL. It really helps to stay busy - especially with exercise. And cleaning house pays multiple benefits: it's exercise, it cheers me and my daughters up to have a sparkling home environment, it helps me get ready to move, and when he comes over to get the kids he sees I've improved at something that's one of his important needs.

Thanx again for the response and I liek the tips you listed.

Meremortal,
It sounds like you are doing a great job, better than me. I guess the key is consistency. It is hard when they say one thing then do another or when you are depending on them for something then they do something else. That's why it is important to move on with or without them and become less needy. I made the mistake last night of trying to call WH for advice on how to use the snake-thing to unclog the toilet. I should've just tried it on my own, but I called and his line was busy. Of course, that made me wonder who he was talking to. I tried back and he answered and I asked him who he was talking to. He said a guy from work and he was expecting a call back and can he call me later. I said, only if you need to. He said well I'll call back and make sure you got the toilet unclogged. He never called me back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So really, I just set myself up for disappointment. If I stick to those items that I learned that never would've happened. The good news is that when I called him at midnight, he answered. I told him I was getting used to be seperated. He said he was reconsidering the seperation and that we'll talk about it this weekend. I won't get my hopes up but I think the wheels may be turning.....

Hi Moving On,

I must come up with about a zillion excuses a day to call him LOL. I just hate it when I give in. I had to learn how to do that toilet auger thing too. I bought a book called Dare To Repair - written by two women for women. It has the Rosy the Riveter illustration on the front (rolled up sleave - showing her bicep). I also go to the hardware store and ask the salespeople how to fix things. My husband did that "I'll call back later" to help me with something then didn't. That really hurts - not only do they let you down but you have to wonder what they might be doing instead. The power was out and he said he'd come over to help me get the generator started - even told me NOT to call somebody else to help me. He told em that at 4 PM as he was leaving work. But then he turned his cell phone off and never showed up. I guess he had to go out to dinner with the other woman because her power was out too. At 9PM I finally called a friend to come start the generator and went to get some fast food for dinner. Our daughters are 12, 16 & 18... and totally disgusted with their father.

You can't discuss any of these things with him later because he 'doesn't remember'... and it would be love-busting.

I've been having a really bad week because he went back to other woman on Sunday and basically dumped his daughter who was supposed to stay all week with him. All the mean and dishonest things he's ever said and done have been haunting me all week. Instead of the usual struggle to not call him to say I love him, I have been having to fight really hard to not call him and tell him off LOL

Everybody has been asking me for a long time: "When are you going to get angry? Don't you ever get angry?" Well, I'm pretty darn angry now! I no doubt want him and the other woman to break up BUT now I don't think I want to stay married to him. I want him to lose us both now.

I guess what helped me the most was seeing the same behavior of the WS's here, over and over. They each just have different versions.

After you've read the same stuff over and over, it is easier not to take it personally. When you no longer take it personally, it doesn't hurt so bad.