I'm starting a new thread(see Any results on MB seminars) because I did a search on MB on serial cheaters and this disorder surfaced.

When I did a search on google about NPD,I found that the definition fit my H/WH to a "T". He has a feeling of entitlement i.e. that these affairs are his "right" to explore because they make him happy. He also has unresolved issues with his mohter. Blames a lot of things on others, primarily me. Not able to accomplish his goals etc. because I am holding him back. Etc.

Am I in danger of making a false diagnosis? I have for 16 years been married to this man and 10 years ago he admitted his 1st affair to me. When I discovered his second one, I insisted on counseling. He went 3 times only and promised not to get involved again. Four years ago, I discovered another serious affair which he claimed he felt a "connection" to like he's never experienced before. (He must have forgotten that he said the SAME thing about the 1st affair he confessed to.)

Well he had a few more flings while having the steady affair with #3. He recently told me that I was never in danger of him leaving the marriage and his proof of that statement was that he had been dating the girl for 4 or 5 years!!!!!!!!!

This is also a characteristic of NPD-this false life that they develop.

Well back to my original question, am I in danger of misdiagnosing a disorder that I believe is very serious? If indeed this is what is plaguing him, the prognosis is not very good because these narcissists have a fear of counselors as well as feeling of superior knowledge.

NPD has a very low rate of treatment with a positive outcome.

pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy which begins by early adulthood and is present in differing contexts within a person's life.


A narcissistic individual is grandiose in their sense of self-importance and exaggerates their achievements and talents. He expects to be recognized as superior without achieving any great accomplishments.

A narcissistic individual is preoccupied with fantasies of his brilliance as well as his unlimited success or power. He fantasizes about beauty or ideal love.

A narcissistic individual believes that he is "special" or "unique." He feels that he can only be understood by or should associate with other special or high status people.

A narcissistic individual requires excessive admiration and is on a constant search for admiration.

A narcissistic individual has a sense of entitlement. He has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment and expect others to automatically comply with his wishes.

A narcissistic individual takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends and uses others without regards to the feelings of others.

A narcissistic individual lacks empathy and does not identify with the feelings or needs of others.

A narcissstic individual is envious of others and believes that others are envious of him.

A narcissistic individual shows arrogant or haughty behaviors or attitudes and does not care who he offends.

Now understand that we all have some traits of many personality disorders.

NPD exist if a person displays 4 or 5 of the above traits on a routine or regular basis. Single acts of exagerated importance or lack of empathy does not serve as proof of having a trait all the time as required in order to be clinically diagnosed as NPD.

Of course serial cheaters often are NPD and according to your post he is clearly a serial cheater.

Its not the fear of counselors that impedes therapy its the NPD's belief that they have done nothing wrong or are not at fault. Hard to convince someone they need to change if the believe they are perfect.

Personally, I think NPD is a lot of garbage. It's selfishness, and a person who wants to not be selfish needs to start thinking in terms of how what they do affects the other person.

Harley's POJA would cure your H of his serial affairs if he took them seriously.

What I see is that the MB program exposes the willingness to build a good M. I suspect there are some who are unable to build a good M -- like the sex offender who killed Dru in MN -- but I tend to think that more people use those labels as an excuse for doing what they d...mn well please.

The best part about Harley's program is this: it ends a bad M. Either the M is fixed, or it is ended. And I am ready for mine to end.

You have to be willing to give up the "trappings" of M in order to escape the "trap" of a facade of a M.

Stunned dad and Cherished,

Thanks both. I am right in between both of your responses. A part of me wants to ascribe to the theory of NPD place blame there and let it sit, and yet, I still believe it is a behavioral choice that can be changed. I am one of those people who wants to help my H change. I want to do the research and the work and I want to fix it. I want to step inside his body and make him see how his fantastic and realistic lives are reversed. I still have not understood that I can't do the changing for him even though everyone, EVERYONE says that only he can.

He has told me in the past that he understands he is selfish, he has said(in anger) that there will always be someone in his life i.e. an OW. He has said that he needs to be happy-apparently because my life philosophy, (morals, values etc.) is different than his-I don't know how to have fun!

My greatest challenge now is not saying or doing anything to upset him. If you have read my other post, I just mentioned that anything I say seems to upset him. He goes through phases. Months on end when I can't say or do anything right. It is stressful to say the least. I hate to dissapoint him( a problem I have) so I stay quiet and don't rock the boat.

Yes, he is admittedly selfish but if he, as Stunned dad quoted, doesn't think there is anything wrong with him, why try to fix it? He believes the only thing wrong is me.

I think it's very hard to diagnose a narcissist. When people are in the middle of As, even SH says they have N tendencies.

I did believe my FWS was narcissistic. My therapist thought so, too. But I have seen some changes in him and I realize that if I'm going to work at recovering my M, I can't think of him as defective. Well, not any more defective than I am.

If FWS thought his A was any sort of entitlement, he no longer does. He expressed it in more practical terms. If his needs were not being met at home, he gave himself permission to go elsewhere.

FWS does do alot of blaming on others, but I keep pointing that out to him, so now he sees himself do it. Perhaps he still does it and just doesn't tell me all the time.

FWS doesn't really have a problem with goals. He does like me to push him at times, but I know others like this as well. Maybe I'm surrounded by Ns.

My therapist says it's hard for even therapists to identify NPD. It's almost like you don't know for sure until you live with the person.

My FWS does admit to having some kind of split life. He can't always resolve different sides of himself, but he does say that he feels most "whole" with me.

I have not been able to get FWS to go to counseling regularly. He criticizes the counselor and points out that he's been going to therapy for 20 years. He feels he's been working on himself more than most people.

I believe the key is in how *you* feel. Do you feel heard? If you're walking on eggshells, that is not a good sign. I still feel that way, but I'm learning all the time how to approach certain subjects and I do notice that FWS does not fly off the handle all the time. I feel he is trying just as hard.

I'm not sure how to get through to a NPD, though. When I thought we were separating, I didn't hold back anything. I told him that my therapist and I thought he was NPD and our MC thought he was a love addict. He knows what this means. Perhaps he's digested this info and wants to show it's not true. Whatever it is, I can see changes in him.