I have a question about Plan B contact.

Instead of using a third party as intermediary (something WH absolutely refuses to do) I informed WH that I would only communicate with him in writing (unless there was an emergency requiring quicker contact by phone). I also notified him that I would not have any private communication with him as long as OW was still in the picture and he wasn't planning on committing to our marriage. I have several reasons for doing this, including my belief that it is wrong to communicate with someone of the opposite sex behind your partner's back. He has to make a choice between OW and me, and then IMO only one of us will continue to have private contact with him that the other is not privy to. I also told WH that any communication he has with me will not be kept secret. He wants to reconcile with me secretly - not let OW and his family know. (Another, equally repulsive option - he wants to come home but tell OW and his family I forced him to come home or else he woudln't get to see his children - AND continue to see OW on the side!)

Anyway, when he e-mails me, he includes this statement:

>>> The information contained in this e-mail transmission is privileged and/or confidential intended solely for the exclusive use of the individual addressee. If you are not the intended addressee you are hereby notified that any retention, disclosure or other use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this notification in error, please immediately contact the sender and delete the material.

I notified him that he had to remove that statement from his communication with me or else I will not respond.

What do you think? Just contunie to ignore any e-mails he sends that have that statement, right?

Or maybe I should respond ONLY with reiterating the requirement that there be no secret communication, that he has to remove that privacy statement?

Your WH is still in the fog. If you are in Plan B, there should be NC, and that includes emails.

Any contact just prolongs the affair.

I guess I should go to strictly written communication THROUGH an intermediary then?

Anyone want to volunteer to be the go-between?

In addition to WH refusing to communicate through an intermediary, I had trouble finding ANYONE I know to serve as one. My original choice of intermediary was the MC. I felt if we only discussed things in his presence (not both going at the same time of course because of Plan B) that would be the most successful. But the only MC WH would agree to go back to says he thinks I should just divorce WH now. Everyone else either thinks I should not have any communication with him whatsoever - just totally dump him and pretend he no longer exists... OR they think refusing contact with him is an example of me being 'uncooperatve' or even 'manipulative' or 'vindictive'! Very few people understand and endorse MB concepts.

So I decided to resort to only written communication that I could then COPY to others (family, lawyer, counselors, OW) to at least be able to verify and hold WH accountable for his promises, threats, and cake-eating attempts. Also it would expose his false accusations. I needed to have a way to prove that he was the one trying to use visitation with our daughters as a way to get to see me - NOT me forcing him to see me and denying him visitation with his daughters.

Anyway, I guess the best option would be written communication through an intermediary. That is what I would really prefer and will continue to try to find an intermediary willing to help.

But for now, my insisting on written communication only, that I will not keep secret, has at least had the Plan B effect of ending communicatuon between us. Since I notified him that I will not communicate with him in private anymore there has only been a few communication attempts from him: a couple of e-mails (which he added non-privacy statement to) and 4 phone calls. I didn't respond to any of them.

Another thing I could do is to inform his relatives and OW know that I am refusing to have communication with WH unless it is in writing and not private. It might interfere a little with his lying? That was one of my motives for refusing non-private communication: to be able to verify and stop the he-said/she-said accusations. In a way, the relatives, OW , counselors (and lawyer if need be) would sort of be intermediaries/witnesses to all communication, but after the communication takes place? I know it would still be best to really have an intermediary the way Plan B advises. Still searching for one...

<small>[ May 08, 2004, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

I think they have intermediaries on www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com. Check it out. You need to do a good Plan B. Many marriage counselors do not have a great track record in restoring marriages. MB is free and seems to do pretty well.

You can contact WH about seeing girls. Just keep communication to that. Say "Hi - girls will be available for pick-up Saturday at 9:00AM. Will that work for you?"

M, I will face the same problem soon. Do you work? Are your girls all with you? How do you work out financially?

I work and no relative here can help me. How do i communicate with him if in Plan B? Also S has behavior problem now, do i just keep it to myself?

Hate to threadjack, but I’ve got the same issues and my standalone post didn’t get any responses.

. I have a 2 & 6 year old whom I’ll have 3 days/week when WW takes possession on her new home. How do you work the transfer? Dropping them off at a pre-destined site will work some of the time, but……

Me thinks intermediaries will likely get sick of me and my MB concepts. After all, WW’s house is a mere 200 Meters away. I can see the rolling eyes already when they pass along messages etc. As I understand it, E-mails should not be used as a method of communication either. The logistics will be a problem.

Believer,

I went to the saveyourmarriagecentral site (thanx for the link) but can't find anything at the site about an intermediary service. Do you have to pay for the counseling from Penny to get it?

All I want is somebody to forward any written communication thru, and for the communication to be non-private (so I can copy it to others to interfere with WH's lying and false accusations).

As to communication about visitation:
The separation agreement states that visitation is 'at the daughters' disgression' and I stay out of it. If one of my daughters wants to see their father, they contact him directly and set it up. Sometimes (like for the past several weeks) they don't want anything to do with him.

Hi LostNHurt,

"M, I will face the same problem soon. Do you work? Are your girls all with you? How do you work out financially?"

I don't work. My daughters live with me and I am homeschooling them. WH earns $50 per hour (IMO major part of why OW was interested in him). We get child support and 'maintenance' (like alimony). It has been a struggle financially but mostly because until I was awarded child support and maintenance, WH was inconsistent at paying bills or giving us money. So we went through savings to survive and got behind on some bills. We almost moved to be near relatives and in a state with lower cost of living... But WH promised if we stayed living here he would break up with OW for good and would give us extra money to be able to afford staying put. (OW objects to him giving us any extra money or letting has the better car, so he can't keep OW and help us out enough financially for us to afford staying here, unless he's broke up with OW.) Sometimes he breaks that promise, goes back to OW, and threatens to not give additional financial support... but OW never stays made up with him for long. So it looks as if we might be OK financially. I would like to find a part time job though with morning hours so I can still homeschool my daughters and take them to the skating rink. My daughters and I don't want to give up homeschooling but we also want to free ourselves from dependency on the extra money. He told my daughters and all our friends he was giving me his car (mine was in need of lots of repairs and unreliable). But OW objects to him even allowing us to borrow it. So he won't sign the title over to me and demands it back whenever he and OW make up. I simply refuse to discuss it with him and after a few days OW dumps him again anyway LOL But if he wanted to he could call the police and make me give it back.

"I work and no relative here can help me."

I have no relatives here either but several VERY GOOD friends. When restraining order was in place I had friends willing to act as intermediary for pick-up/drop-off of kids for visitation. But WH objected and wouldn't cooperate. I don't know anybody personally who would act as intermediary to relay info between WH and myself though. Besides, I need a more long-term solution in case WH goes through with divorce.

"How do i communicate with him if in Plan B?"

That's the problem (if you can't find somebody to serve as an intermediary and/or WH won't cooperate with an intermediary) That's why I decided to do only written communication, only when absolutely necessary, and refuse to keep it secret/private (so I can give a copy to lawyer, counselor, OW, relatives, etc. if I feel it would help the situation). If WH fails to do what's needed to save marriage/family, divorce will be in September. If I remarry, all communication with ex-WH will be shown to my new husband before sending.

"Also S has behavior problem now, do i just keep it to myself?"

IMO, no, don't just keep it to yourself. I discuss my daughters' reactions and problems resulting from this mess with FC (family counselor), MC (when we were going to him), relatives (both mine and WH's), pastor, my friends, my lawyer, and with WH. Of course because of Plan B I don't discuss it with my husband anymore - all you have to do is notify him. He just blamed it all on me and/or said he didn't believe they were having problems. I remember one time when I told him youngest daughter was threatening to kill herself he told me "that's what suicide hotlines are for - don't bother me"! Yet, when I didn't call him immediately when same daughter chipped her tooth (because it was late at night and I knew he was with OW and would just have his cell phone turned off anyway) he tried to misrepresent it to his lawyer that I had failed to notify him in an emergency... So you probably should notify him about son's problems, regardless of how he responds. And it probably would be a good idea to have verification that you notified him and how he responded. (Another reason I decided to go to only written, non-private communication; if I can show proof of his uncaring response then I don't have to worry so much about his false accusations.)

Good luck. I really don't know what else to try?
At least by refusing to have an communication with WH that I can't verify, I feel more protected from his abuse and false accusations.

Believe posted something about an intermediary service at saveyourmarriagecenttral. I'm trying to find out more about that.

Hi Binder,

". I have a 2 & 6 year old whom I’ll have 3 days/week when WW takes possession on her new home. How do you work the transfer? Dropping them off at a pre-destined site will work some of the time, but……"

Well, in my situation, my daughters are 12, 16 & 18. Usually only the 12 year old wants to sometimes see her father (not for several weeks now though). While the restraining order was in effect WH wanted me to allow him to pick kids up at my home (and to even come along during visitation)! Of course I said no and made arrangements for him to pick them up elsewhere. But he objected and usually refused to cooperate.
Then he'd pretend that I didn't allow him to see his daughters. There is no longer a restraining order in effect and I did a Plan A for about 6 months during which time I allowed him to come to my home and even went with him for visitation and some dates. But now that I'm in plan B I will allow him to pick kids up out front (IF they want to see him). There is no regular visitation schedule set up and visitation is up to daughters.

"Me thinks intermediaries will likely get sick of me and my MB concepts. After all, WW’s house is a mere 200 Meters away. I can see the rolling eyes already when they pass along messages etc."

I know! People just don't understand and it works in favor of the WS when the BS has to try to make these arrangements for who knows how long... I get one of two reactions when I try to explain to people: "Why would you and your daughters ever have ANYTHING to do with him EVER again?"... OR: They think I'm being silly, uncooperative, manipulate, or vindictive if I refuse to have contact with WH. Some even say that it would be my fault then if we get a divorce (MIL says if I don't just let him come home - no questions asked, no proof that he and OW are really broke up, no requiring him to go to counseling... then I must not love him... that I just need to forgive and forget and TRUST him...) And even if I could find somebody to serve as go-between, they wouldn't want to do it forever, after divorce too.

"As I understand it, E-mails should not be used as a method of communication either. The logistics will be a problem."

I am settling for written communication for now, because I feel I have no other choice and it gives protection of being able to verify whatever is communicated.

In an emergency I should probably have to give him a phone call too... I guess I could tape the phone call and/or leave him a message.

Thanks Mermortal,

I know it will be tough, especially if WW says, “The kids are here, come and get them” I doubt I’ll be able to get an intermediary away from the TV to P/U my kids. I may convince her to drop them off at the neighbors and I will get her to enable the text messaging on her cell so to give the odd impersonal transfer of information. I also anticipate she will fudge the handing over times, as she has to service her career and the OM.

I’ve got to say though; part of me is looking forward to the separation/Plan B. WW has not wavered in her resolve to leave me “because our marriage was soooooooooo bad” and not because she’s intimately involved with another married man. She sees him at will and does not try to hide the relationship. I am even questioning if I want her back at this point…….she has been awful to me, I’ve kept my mouth shut except for positive communication.

Plan B?? I do not think it will sway her, but I guess plan B is about me, not her. Lord give me strength.

I doubt I’ll be able to get an intermediary away from the TV to P/U my kids.
Everyone you know which may be used as an intermediary is glued to a television? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I'd SERIOUSLY think about getting someone else as an intermediary.
Someone who would be serious about helping you save your marriage.

Binder -

"Plan B?? I do not think it will sway her, but I guess plan B is about me, not her. Lord give me strength."

If/when you decide to go to Plan B (AFTER a really good Plan A - they advise BH to Plan A WW for 6 months) you will feel much more confident, regardless of what WW ultimately decides. Our church is doing a '40 days of purpose' program using Rick Warren's book "Purpose Driven Life". It is really helping me to get my focus off of my WH and into developing a closer relationship with God. Some of the time now I don't know if I even want my WH back. I hardly ever have that desire to contact him now and it's a lot easier to fight that feeling when it does surface. And I used to be really worried that I couldn't stick to a Plan B - that I wouldn't be able to resist calling him. It WAS really hard to not call him at first. Plan B might not sway your wife... It doesn't appear to be swaying my WH. I think it's just a power struggle to him. Plus he's told so many lies to so many people for so long I doubt he will ever tell the truth now. ALSO, since I was too needy in Plan A and broke Plan B a few times too early, he has a false sense of confidence that he will never lose me.

But Plan B is helping ME to accept that he probably never will do what he needs to do in order to save our marriage AND to finally start feeling OK about that. I don't feel like it's my responsibility to try to reach him and teach him anymore. It's his problem and he best decide he wants to fix it ASAP or else he's going to be dealing with it all alone. I don't even want to give him help in what to say or do anymore. I was probably just teaching him how to be a better con artist anyway. If he doesn't love me enough to seek out the info and apply it - oh well... I won't date until the divorce is final but why should he deserve any help in competing with other men to try to keep me?

I feel SO MUCH better now because of my getting closer to God, doing Plan B, and taking an AD. I don't feel so rejected anymore. Instead I think he's a fool because he's most likely going to end up losing me. And he will realize too late that all those things he put higher priority to saving our marriage won't make him happy. He'll have the sympathy of the people who believe his lies but he won't have me.
I honestly think he believes he can somehow keep me without having to confess he's lied. But I'm not settling for anything but the best anymore. If he doesn't measure up - tough.

<small>[ May 10, 2004, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Thanks for the replies.

Chris, I was being a tad facetious regarding the TV comment. I can however anticipate the reluctance of my friends to go to a house less than 200 Meters from mine to pick up my kids on a Saturday morning in January during a spell of –30 degree weather. (I’m in Canada eh?)

I’ve obviously bought into the MB concept, but I don’t know if I can sell it enough for folks to do the above, at least not for any length of time. I may use the neighbors as a drop off point and retrieve them from there. I can drop them off at friends for her to get, not a problem, but for her to reciprocate……hmmmmmmmm. We’ll see.

When is someone going to invent that darn transporter?

I’ve been subjecting myself to this since Dec. A plan A was intuitive initially though I was initially far too passive and was trampled upon. I have been continuing under a more structured one since early April, but she does not stay in our home at night, only comes home when I’m working to take care of the kids. Not much opportunity to connect. She gets her own house on the 18th .

I’ve reached my limit, any longer and I’ll start to be counterproductive. I have to start looking after myself. God is helping. I'm getting in touch with my spirituality and seeking comfort and support there.