I really need some advice. But first a little background info.
M14
WS42
BS40
S(12,6)D(5)
0w28
Found out about A 9/03 2years with co-worker
back an forth till 2/04
ow left work 3/1/04
3/3/04 spent night w ow
SInce he was gone all night the children got involved and 12 year old and I told him to leave.
He begged to stay, I allowed it since 12 year old was saying it would be different this time because he has promised him. WS called ow and told her it was over. But in a very mean way.
All the other times he was gentle about it.
I felt ws had finally closed the door to OW allowing him to show up on her door step.
WS begins counselling for Alchohol and us.
WE went to mine together and he was told he needed to help himself first. So we both see someone.
Great 6 or weeks or so I thought.
I sensed a change. Turns out he called OW to apologize for the things he said. Counselor and he discussed this. WS felt bad at the way it ended because they were not his words but things I wanted to hear him say. Very true( I used you, You never meant anything to me etc...) He did it as part of staying with us. He would do anything to have me allow him to stay.
WS says he called to make himself feel better and to move forward for with us. He had to put those bad feelings to rest.
Since I told him the last time any contact and he is out. I asked him to leave. After a four hour converstation many things came out. Yes, in some ways I understand why he had to do this but he should have said I am sorry that is all. Not have a long friendly conversation. I feel he has opened the door right back up and he agrees. and knows it was wrong.
He discussed not telling me but feels he needs to be honest for us.
His concern is that it has brought back all these feelings to the surface that he thought were gone. His counselor says it is normal it is all a part of his greiving for the old relationship.
I am so confused Do I make him go? Do I let him Stay?
Do I make him write a nc letter to her.
THey ended the conversation with her asking if he wil call again and he said he didn't know.
I am so hurt and so confused. Yet I am still so in love with him or am I how do I know? I know I deserve better. He doesn't want to leave but can't stand hurting me. So then why does he? Should I go to a session with him and his counselor. I am begining to wonder if I am just so afraid to be without him. I know eventually the children and I would be fine. Bottom line is deep in my heart I want us to be together and this whole to have been nothing more than a bad dream. Wishfull thinking. Please help I feel like I am back to square one all over again...Sick to my stomache ,crying and very depressed....

Welcome to marriage builders. It is a good place to come for help. Read all about Plan A, and start there. Yes H needs to write a NC letter. It should say he loves his wife, is working on having a better marriage than ever, and desires no contact with her.

Keep reading here and posting. We all have felt like you do now, but it can get better. Stick with us.

I have been in plan a since sept.
The affair has ended several times with the most progress being this last on March31,2004
I feel I am at the end and need to move to plan B
but how do I know this for sure.
I beleive I ahve been a dorrmat for a long time and he keeps stepping on me.
Do I make one more request for ws to send NC letter to OW? and if he refuses move to plan B?
My Brain is fried, my stomach in knots, and my heart aches soo much.....

Bump for advice/help with Plan B

I do not undestand what your post means.
At this point my H doesn't feel he can promise NC with OW. Not because he wants to see her or talk but because he has already promised and broken it. He says he is confused because he thought it was all over with, now all these feelings have resurfaced. isn't this because he spoke with her? he is traveling a lot lately for work and I hate his being away. I don't know if I could ever handle plan B. I do think he needs to see what life is like without me and the children but am so afraid he won't think it is so bad and I will lose him forever. Is there an average time frame for for plan b like there is for A?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HRTBRKN2:
<strong> he is traveling a lot lately for work and I hate his being away. I don't know if I could ever handle plan B.

Is there an average time frame for for plan b like there is for A? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello, HRTBRKN.

You are in a difficult place. Do you think he has seen or talked to ow?

It really does impede recovery if there is contact. Have you read the Concepts linked at the top of this page? There is plenty of good advice about Plan A/B in those.

Generally, though, the sages will say you can usually handle Plan A for about 6 months. It's also important to do a GOOOOD Plan A. That way, when you move to Plan B, you have left WS with a good sense of the permanent/lasting changes you are currently making, or have made.

In that sense, yes, you are way overdue for Plan B. I would wait to see if he comes a little more out of the fog. It sounds more like left-over fog talked (in his actions/words), rather than contact, but anything's possible!

Therefore, keep Plan B in the back of your mind as a possible option. Indications of contact DO NOT MEAN GO TO PLAN B immediately. Plan B should never be used as a "punishment" for slipping and getting together w/ow.

Plan B HAS to be used when they continue to waffle between coming home and being w/op, and you feel yourself losing the last remaining love for your S. Otherwise, there's nothing left for recovery, and if you think that's easy, go over to Recovery board and read soem of those posts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As far as whether or not you could "handle" Plan B (whether as a single parent, or whatever), listen, hun....errrr, aren't you kind of handling it alone NOW?? With him traveling (for work, I presume)?? It's no different than what you're already doing. The only difference, and it's a good one....is that you will be peaceful. If there's contact between them, YOU WON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, OR CARE!!!

Take care of yourself. This stuff ain't easy!!

God Bless,

Thank you for your advice lupolady.
yes I know for a fact her has called her (2 Weeks ago)to apologize for the way he broke things off at the end of march.(The last time they were together was the 30th of march, staying out all night and coming home on the 31st) I also know that he asked how she was feeling about things(the two of them ) and she said she wants him to get a divorce so that the two of them can be together.He was told by his counselor to end things in his own words and way but instead he opened the door right back up again. Which I know starts the whole mourning phase over again for him.
Yes he travels for work and I do it all but I know I casn call him and that he will be coming home. The problem is that I know every move he makes ...when he is out of town and if I don't all I have to do is ask and he tells.
I believe I ahve been doing a great plan a since he told my sister in law he can not believe how wonderful I have been and how truely amazing I am. Yet he is still confused..... well so am I right now

Dear Hrtbrkn - Ask your H to send a final NC letter, explain to him that this is it. He needs to establish NC with this OW - and if contact resumes you are threw, can't do this anymore.

If he goes through withdrawal again he is to talk to yourself or his therapist about it but in no uncertain terms ever talk to this OW. You need to put your foot down. Make it clear. I think you have given him lots of opportunities to get it right, now its his turn.

If he does speak to her again you need to Plan B him, Good Luck Sandy

Sandy, Thank you . I know this is what needs to be done but doing it is the problem. When I took him back the last time I told him no NC or that was it. Now he has called and spoken for to her for over four hours at one time. That doesn't sound like ending things to me. I have asked him if he could promise no more contact and he tells me he is not sure he can make that promise since he has already broken it this last time. When I told him to leave he says that he shouldn't be so open with me since it leads to him leaving. He is just trying to be totally honest. Well, when is enough enough? How do I get the strentch to plan B. Just this weekend we had a wonderful time and everything seems great. But then I get the phone bill and see how long he has spoken with her and I am in pain all over again and doubtling myself. And I always have an excuse "this weekend is my nephews graduation and if I make him leave how do I explain that to my whole family who will be around for the graduation. It should be about my nephew and not me, and I know it would turn to me. Then I worry about the kids and how they will react? I would love for him to see what it was like with out the kids and I and see that this whole thing is nothing more than a fantasy for him. Him giving the best of himself and the same for her. But when Real life came in bills, laundry, seeing the kids without her being around etc... how happy would he be. The flip side is, me being so scared that he will be happy with out the kids and I. Mainly me.
I am so tired of this roller coaster. I just want my life back. And OW is so smug about it all.. She tells him simply" I want you to get a divorce so that we can be together.."Wouldn't you think she would get tired of waiting around and the back and forth as well.. I guess the truth is she is 28 and has nothing to lose by hangingn around waiting. I know for a fact that she is doing her own thing and yet lets him think she is waiting patiently just for him.
God Help me , I need strength and guidance...I am not sure how to get trough this.

It is your WH making and breaking a promise to your child that concerns me the most. It's not uncommon for the WS to have some false recoveries, making contact again and then having to start withdrawal all over again. It's an addiction and every time he has contact with her again he will slip back into the fog and have to start over. And when that happens you should seriously consider going to Plan B until the WS sends the no contact letter (assuming you've done an adequate Plan A - considering both the length of time and quality of the Plan A).

IMO when the WS is making and breaking promises to the kids, you have to go to Plan B to try to protect them some. I wish I had gone to (and STAYED IN) Plan B a lot sooner.

My daughters have told my WS things like:

"I won't speak to you again until you get rid of the bimbo"

"I'd rather have you out of my life completely than in and out of my life"

"Well then you must not love me very much if it's so hard to decide" (After he told daughter he was 'torn' between his family and the OW)

"You're not part of this family anymore - I don't have a father"

"Unless you go to counseling I don't want to see you anymore"

"You're a liar"

IMO it would have probably been better for my daughters if I had dumped my WH about a decade ago... They wouldn't have had to go through their father treating them like this over his lust for an OW. The first man who ever broke their hearts was their own father.

HRTBRKN,

Listen, hun, you're getting good advice.

YOU NEED TO BE IN PLAN B. This is NOT a "punishment" to him. It simply allows you to get OUT of his confused, vacillating movements, and heal, and savor what little love you have left, and (I think most importantly), makes ow have to be responsible to meet all his EN's. (if she can!)

Usually, after a short time of that, WS learns that OP isn't quiet so *wonderful*.

You will keep this up till - like meremortal says - your children will begin to resent him for putting *them* through this, and you (and children) lose so much love for him, there's nothing left to rebuild when the A ends.

It isn't all that hard. Write a PBL, then stick to what you say.

We are all here to help you. DOING IT is the hardest. Living after doing it isn't all that hard. After all, he's already gone most of the time now, isn't he?

I really wish you could do a search for Mimi's posts. She was terrified to go to Plan b. It didn't take long, once she got serious. Her H practically came RUNNING home! See, as it is now, your H's cake-walking........and you're allowing it! This only prolongs the A, and allows OW time to learn HOW to meet his EN's. Better to cut it off sooner, while she doesn't know him well enough.

Step OUT of the drama, and wait for his little *fantasy bubble world* to come crashing down. Don't use future events, family get-togethers as an excuse. This will be part of the ramifications he will have to face for *having an A* in the first place!!

Just like getting a divorce, THERE'S NEVER A GOOD TIME TO DO THIS.

God Bless,

OK I did it I asked him to write a final NC letter and ....he can't. He said he knows what he should be doing and that it should have been his idea but it wasn't and that is the problem.
It bothers him that this should be a no brainer but he doesn't feel he can do it. He said he has been there 4 times already and can't. I told him he has to leave and find out what he really wants in life while I still love him. I told him I don't want to end up hating him. He is worried that I won't be ok with him leaving and will be angry and not let let him come back and that he shouldn't be allowed to come back. I assured him that I would give him the time and that I was the one asking him to leave so I would have to be ok with it if he wanted to come back. Was that wrong of me? He said he was only leaving because of my altimatum (Spelling?) I asked why what else would you do wait till you contacted her again or disappeared for the night again for it to start all over. I told him I loved him but could not take the pain of him not being able to commit to me and the kids. That he need to figure out what he wanted us or the OW. I didn't sleep at all last night and when he woke up we had a long conversation, again...that is when he told me he was going because of my ultimatum. He also said he loved me, my response was I know just not enough. He also told be to stop crying he hates to see me cry and that he hates to hurt me. He also said that he never thought he would hurt me because he honestly felt I didn't like him or care about him for it to bother me. I asked him why he let the A go on for so long intead of comingt to me and ending things and he said because he didn't want to lose me.
OK so now what? I am in so much pain. I know this is what needs to be done plan B right? I just hope I can stay strong. Part of me wants to just let him stay and see what happens and the other part wants him to go and realize we are what he wants in life. But I am so afraid of him not coming back. I am sorry for rambling but I am so confused and hurting so much. I need some advice and some support from those of you who have been here where I now am. Please help me find the strength to get through this...Expalin t me how I could go through all we have been through in 20 years always fighting for us to only end up here ....?

Time to stop the long conversations and go to Plan B. He needs to see what life will be like without you and his family.

Get a Plan B letter ready and post it on the general questions board. There is more traffic there.