Hello,

I posted this Q in Gen Q's II as well.

Brief background... I'm BS, in Plan B and praying hard, but lately I just felt all was over and it was time to move on. (I think my LB is empty.) WS (H) has filed for D and it will be final soon.

Anyway, my H (WS) has broken through and made contact now & again, and recently the contact (such as messages on work phone # that I can't change) seem to indicate he wants to try to work on the M or at least talk about it. (By the way, WS absolutely refuses to communicate with the intermediary.)

I know from reading SAA and the boards that WS is UNlikely to ask to try/work on things with a huge show of remorse, etc. So, these mild requests may be what I've been praying to happen. (Also, SAA talks about the 2 spouses mailing NC letter together, so how does this happen if you don't talk to WS until A is over? I'm confused...)

Also, it's hard for me to tell whether this is a request to try to reconcile, or an attempt to manipulate me because he's not getting what he wants in the settlement process. (He's tried this before...saying he will work on the M if I agree to sign away all my rights to any settlement, etc.)

I'm thinking of asking H (in a very nice way) to clarify what he wants based on the last message? To talk about us & the future, or what?

Any advice / help?

Thank you!

P.S. I'm reluctant to give too much detail because my H was reading my posts during the pre-DDay and post-DDay events and was very cruel about my broken heart/soul. So, this is a different user name than my original user name, and I prefer not to give details in case he still lurks here.

This guy doesn't have a good track record. If you really want to give him another chance, you will have to be very strong when you meet/talk with him. Come up with a list of requirements you need for him to do *before* you even consider trying to work on the M.

For starters, you should not talk about the D settlement at all. If he starts talking about it, that is a bad sign. Run! Second, do not agree to move in together for at least six months of 'dating'. You can revise this later if it actually is working out, but don't tell him.

Third, he will have to draft an NC letter and you will have to send it together. Fourth, he will have to change his cell number, email, etc., and you will have access to his new ones. Fifth, you will start going to MC.

If he balks at one of these things, leave and don't look back.

Dear Happycat,

Could you ask your attorney to call his attorney to see what H means about "Working on the Marriage"?

The terms listed by IBC seem relevant for your consideration. What are your terms for starting to go to MC? Were you ever in MC? What will your goals for MC be? What are your personal rules for utilizing MC?

What are the steps you see in Working on your Marriage? What is your analysis of each other's needs? What's going on with OW? Has your intermediary contacted H since his last attemtp to contact you? What is H's opposition to your intermediary? Is ther another intermediary avaiable? Can you use musical intermediaries?

Where do your offers stand on money? Are there other issues to work on for the divorce? Did H feel you wre overly sentimetally attached to your marriage to him? What indications has H given that he wants you to move on?

Blessings

Thanks for the responses. I have answers to your questions, an update and more questions...

my general overall question is how to navigate the waters from the end of Plan B to recovery... any help/advice???

Update: we talked last night... we confessed to still loving and missing each other . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (never, ever thought I would hear that again!) ... we talked about how in our hearts we both want reconciliation, but our heads also fear it... we cried and held each other... H wants me to show I can be different before agreeing to terms of reconciliation by meeting certain of his conditions (my terms of reconciliation would of course include ending his A)... showing him would include confessing any/all of my sins to him (he thinks I'm closed off, that I've hidden things from him, etc) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

OK - so I want to show H that we can do this, but I also don't want to let him off the hook about ending the A or do this the wrong way -- what do I do? H won't commit to recommitting/working on the M until I do what he wants -- he just says that rebuilding is what he wants, but he's not sure it can happen until I prove some things to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (Keep in mind, he does not understand the MB concepts of selfish demands, and he is the typical WS in that he blames me for his A and is angry with me, etc.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I think this is our only chance to reconcile... he's very proud and stubborn...what do I do???

My idea is to meet him and say... here's my plan for reconciling...I know that you need a "show of faith" about my sincerity and ability to have a better marriage with you (although haven't I already provided this by sticking it out and Plan A??) by meeting your requests, and I hope you can understand that I'm also nervous and fearful and I also need a show of faith from you... are you willing to commit to this M and end your A?

How do I navigate this territory?? this is so hard -- I don't want to blow this... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />


Answers to your questions...
My terms for starting MC:
1. H ends A and recommits to M
2. We agree on a "plan" for rebuilding on our M
3. H seeks IC for drinking/anger/depression (ideally, he would change from his current IC who seems to only make him worse and encourages the D --sigh)
4. I should probably go back to IC to deal w/ my hurt, inability to protect myself, etc.

H refused to go to MC and said it was all a waste of time and only made things worse. I think that was part of the fog talk, but it will be difficult to get him to see a better IC and to go to MC with me. I think that MC focused on actions, not just exploring feelings, is the right choice so that we can learn how to better interact with each other and we see more progress.

My goals for MC would be to learn how to have and maintain a good relationship -- communication, kindness, trust, care, protection -- I think the MB concepts are valuable and that would be a good roadmap - learning and practicing those principals.

Each other's needs (I'm guessing here):
Him: admiration; affection; SF; conversation; household support

Me: admiration; conversation; affection; recreational; financial

He is still with OW, although he has talked about ending it and how he loves me, not her, and he wants to be with me. I think he is afraid to end it, then if it doesn't work out with us, he is alone. It's so wrong, but that's how he thinks right now - he is not MB-educated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

H (and his therapist, apparently) are opposed to the whole intermediary concept.

Mostly there are only money issues left w/ the D.

I have no idea what you mean about the sentimentally attached to your marriage question...

As far as indications to move on... H had the usual fog talk, but now he is recanting... see above.

hey happycat- they didn't break the mold when they made the WS- they ran it and made duplicate molds and spread the SAME WS all over the planet....geez.

my h walked out 7 weeks ago-after a full effort recovery on my part and an admitted continuation of A on his part for 17 months.not nice. walked out like nothin-no looking back. has sent a few LAME (their words) emails to grown sons- they answered once. very simple- GET IN OUR LIFE WHERE WE LIVE OR STAY OUT FOREVER. I have few conversations with h. he'll send a nasty email like in a fit-I won't make email deals- so he'll call and get frustrated at not getting any answers about whats going on in OUR HOME and hang up. so I'll do dark again......filed for support-that will get some reaction? who knows. says he still loves me but not like he should. but that answer will change- it has many incarnations. all blow and no go. no ACTION. doesn't come for his stuff- left with nothing- doesn't file for D- doesn't DO anything but live his new life with ow and let us rot? its all very sad and confusing. selfish and heading down the devils path is for certain. me me me. what about me. that is his song. God is having his vengeance- some not nice things have happened to h since he left. so I wait and I pray.......

check out ladies chat sometime- I have a medical condition that keeps me in the chair alot..

http://www.san-andreas.com/mbladies/chat.php

PEACE OUT

Dear Happy Cat,

You mention that Wayward Husband needs help with his depression, Drinking and Anger. Why does IC for H feel that D is good?

You mention you are unable to protect yourself.

My wife is odcasionally abusive and impoite, with outbursts. I have been reading Cloud and Townsend Boudaries. Do a search on Boundaries, and you will see that many on this board have had good results.


BOUNDARIES IN MARRIAGE (1999), by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend, Available in Leather, ISBN 0-310-24612-1, Hard back: ISBN 0-310-22151-X, and Paper Back: ISBN 0-310-24314-9 (Soft Cover) Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49530.

Boundaries in Marriage Workbook, Paperback, ISBN 0-310-22875-1.

Boundaries, Face to Face (2003) by Henry Cloud and John Townsend

cloudtownsend.com
www.drhenrycloud.com
www.newlife.com

Boundaries Course Video, with Cloud and Townsend, comes with the Boundaries in Marriage, the Particpant's Guide and the Instructor's Guide.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1813624&sourceid=1500000000000000040820
Boundaries Groups:

overcomersoutreach.org
Overcomer's Outreach Boundaries Groups

celebraterecovery.com
Celebrate Recovery Boundarie Groups


Lecture Reservations:
newlife.com
1-800-new life
703-729-3900, Chris Cole on Groups


Your husband has asked you to change, as a condition of his return. What changes would he like to see in you?

Are you familiar with 180 Degree Divorce Busters?


DIVORCE BUSTER'S INFO:


Website: divorcebusting.com
MB Thread on 180 Degree Divorce Busters


180 Degree Divorce Busting, by Michelle Weiner-Davis, divorcebusting.com

Internet Search Words: Divorce Busters

Michelle Weiner-Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

Article by Michelle Weiner-Davis on Divorce for Longevity.com, Divorce Section

lovegevity.com, 180 Degree Divorce Busing Articles by Michelle Weiner Davis


Stop Divorce Website
Stop Divorce website


In what ways have you tried to change? In what ways have you succeeded in changing?

Congratualtions on getting Plan B to get you to the point you have described. Sometimes switching back to Plan A for a while, is test to see if Plan B has worked.

Others have pointed out Fog Talk. I don't suggest that you believe what H says.

Making it a priorty for H to get a handle on his problems could be a primary goal. It would be difficult for you to be a good wife, if H is drunk and unkind.

I have been in MC. What are your rules for participating in MC? Will his IC see you and H for a session? What do you know about Al Anon? What do you know about co-dependency? In what ways did you make things worse? Have you changed?

What does H dislike about MC? How could you win out over OW?

I hope you have already gotten back together again, and this post is unnecessary.

Blessings

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>