A little background. Married 8 years August 26th, together 12 years total. We've had our ups and downs. In May,he told me he was unhappy because of the way I keep house (it was very dirty), pay bills (shut off notices) and that he couldn't live this way anymore, he moved out to his Mother's. He was only gone for about a week, because I was going completely psychotic while he was gone, bawling and crying, calling him Mom at 3 am, tracking him down...etc. He got into an argument with his Mom when she asked him what was going on, and ended up coming back home....he walked in the door and said "you win!"...of course it didn't felt like I'd won....we were back together (sort of) until the end of August. He was really stand offish, and up to this point, I hadn't read any of the books or even heard of any of them, so I had no idea how to react to him, or what I should be doing. We had a talk, and I asked him "Do you want to be with me? Are you in love with me?" He didn't answer, so I said "It's a yes or no question." He said "No, it's more complicated than that..." I said "Well your not answering is the answer." I begged him to go to marriage counseling, he refused. At this time he was becoming friends with a girl who he has worked a few shops away from for 7 years, she just bought a new house and since we don't have a garage, she told him if he'd help her move he could park his 1950 Special Deluxe in her garage, that move took 14 hours, during which time I called him 3 times, and he never answered his cell phone nor tried to call me. I was furious when he got home and we got into an argument. I have "caught" him at her house a few more times since then, and told him I was going to kick the living sh*t out of her if I caught him there again (he knows I can)...he said "Caren! We're just friends...why would you do that?! There's nothing going on! That's what you just don't get isn't it? That there is no other woman. This is just the way I feel."

I moved out September 9th with my kids (Have 3, only 1 together), I didn't think I could stay in that house and keep my sanity knowing he wasn't in love with me. Now I start reading this website and the MB books, and wonder if any of this can help me.

I have NO concrete evidence of an affair, and anytime I've mentioned it he get's really P.O.ed and tells me that there isn't anything going on with anyone. So how do you plan A with someone if A) You don't live with them and B)You're not sure that there is or ever was an affair? And he won't admit it even if there is one?

I've been trying to plan A, I have tried to meet his needs sexually (which is the only physical contact he will have anything to do with) since I've moved out. I'm going over there 3ish times a week and having sex with him, but afterwards he keeps telling me we have to stop having sex because he feels like he's stringing me along. I am still able to talk him back into having sex, and have been trying all sorts of new tricks in the bedroom trying to keep him amazed, I have also made him dinner a few times (I've seen what he eats, sometimes dinner is cheetos, done his laundry a few times and the last time we had sex I scratched his back afterwards. He seems to want to hold me after sex, but we live in 2 different houses, so I inevitably have to leave because the kids are at my house.

He visably bristles if I tell him I love him, so I don't anymore, he knows I love him...and it seems to make him uncomfortable to hear it, he flat refuses to tell me he loves me.

I wrote him a letter the other day, in it I told him all the things I'd realized since we've been separated, that I should've kept the house clean, that I shouldn't have taken sex for granted, and I know how bad I am with money, and that I would hand my checks over to him if we were able to work things out. That I loved him and truly wanted him to be happy and that somehow I hoped he could still find that happiness with me.

Last night he went out drinking with his cousin, he called me when he got home (2:40 am) I answered the phone, and he asks if I was asleep, I said no...because truthfully I can't sleep at all. Anyway, my daughter had 2 friends over for her birthday to spend the night, and he said he was calling to see how that was going. He was drunk. I said it was going fine. We talked for a while, and I decided to ask him what he thought about the letter.....since he was drunk, I figured his guard would be down a little. He said "What do you mean, what did I think of it?" I said "I dunno, I just wondered" He never really gave me a firm reply on what he thought of it. I then told him I wanted to have sex with him, he said "no..." I said "No?" He said "I told you we can't do that anymore." I said "Yeah, you keep saying that" Again he said he didn't want to string me along.

This is ripping my heart out. I've lost tons of weight (I was only 140 to begin with) none of my clothes fit, I can't eat, I can't sleep. I try to eat, and I get a couple bites in and feel sick. I am on Zoloft...have been for a month. I am on Xanax because my nerves are totally shot. The doctor also put me on Ambien, but it only allows me to sleep maybe 3 or 4 hours, and then I wake up. I was seeing a counselor by myself, but he really didn't seem to understand what I wanted, he kept telling me my husband could divorce me if he wanted to whether I wanted him to or not, and really didn't give me any advice as to how to save my marriage, he didn't seem to feel it could be saved by me alone, and me telling him I wasn't divorcing my husband just made him repeat "He can divorce you even if you don't want him to".

My husband did tell me he wanted a divorce, before I moved out, and I went to see a lawyer, and came back and told him how much money it was, and that the only grounds he had me on was possibly irreconcilable differences, which I would contest...I told him I'd contest that the sky was blue if he filed for a divorce. So he hasn't mentioned another thing about divorce.

I've been praying everyday that he'll change his mind, that he'll miss us. But so far he seems happy with his decision, and I feel like all my efforts are going unnoticed...or at the very least unappreciated. I know I'm not supposed to expect anything in return, but I don't know what to even look for as a positive sign.

We are taking my daughter to this "family fun center" tonight for her birthday, I thought that was maybe a good sign, but I don't know. I can't help feeling like he's completely through with me, and beyond the reach of my Plan A efforts.

Help me please, I'm really floundering.

-Caren

Here is the letter that I gave him 2 days ago, I thought maybe posting it would help you understand what I was saying, since I felt like my post was just rambling.

__________________________________________________

Mark:

We've been apart about a month now, and so I thought I'd write to you and tell you a few things that I've discovered since we've been separated.

I've found being away from you very painful, as you know. I admit there have been times when I was unable to think clearly enough to be reasonable in response to what I was feeling, and for that I apologize. I just love you so much, that the threat of losing you is almost too much to bear.

I can't blame you for finding fault in our marriage, I know that you were unhappy. I was happy, because I had my family, and was in my comfort zone, which unfortunately made me lazy and I was unable to see the huge holes I now realize I ignored.

I realize that one of you needs, after a long day of work, was to come home to a clean house, and that in order for you to be able to relax, unwind, and be comfortable I needed to provide that for you. At the time keeping house clean seemed petty to me, even though you had told me repeatedly how much it bothered you. I now understand how important it is, and have been keeping my house very clean in your absence. I know that if I told you I would change, it would mean nothing to you because I've said that many times before. The difference now is that I didn't understand how important it was to you, I would tell you I would change and make a half hearted attempt at it in order to have peace and not fight with you. I now realize that I was wrong not to provide this basic need for you, it wasn't a lot to ask, and it shouldn't have been questioned.

Another thing I realized, which I guess I always knew - but didn't know how to change, is how awful I am with money. I know that we should be working towards something and not just existing. I know how disappointed you were about the bounced checks, and I have honestly never written a check that I intended to bounce, I am always playing a game of catch up, thinking I can make up the money somehow. I have a huge lack of attention to details in these areas, and end up digging a hole for myself I can't get out of. I honestly want a home of our own, nice cars and nice things, but I know that with me being in charge of my money that will never happen. I am unable to save $5.00 for a week. I also know how good you are at saving your money, and I respect that. I know that in the past finding out that you had money "stashed" would make me angry, but it was never because you were able to save it, just that it was a "secret" (I also understand why you kept it a secret, because I would have spent my money faster, and then started on yours). I think that if we are able to eventually work out or differences that we should not have "my money" and "your money" anymore, that it should be "our money" and that you should have control over it. I really believe that I should be handing my checks over to you, because I truly have no clue what I spend my money on, and it's gone before I know it.

I know that I'll get no argument from you when I tell you how great we are in bed together, but like you said to me in a conversation a few weeks ago, that there were a lot of little things that I did that you took for granted, I am guilty of the same thing. I took sex with you for granted. I just went along under the assumption that sex with you would always be there whenever I wanted, and if I was sleepy, or just pre-occupied I'd just "not be in the mood" and refuse. I now also realize that was a mistake on my part, and have thought of making love to you everyday since we've been apart.

I am sorry that I took you and your love for me for granted, that was a mistake on my part. I miss everything about you.

Mark, I want you to be happy, I honestly want that with all my heart. I can only pray that you can somehow still find that happiness with me.

I Love You,

Caren

________________________________________________

Well that was it. *Sigh* I'm so lonely <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

-Caren

Your letter is good, I hope he will listen. It is difficult to trust when one has asked for help over and over and not recieved it.

There are things you can do to show him you are serious.

Do the things now, while he is away, that you say you will do if he comes back.

We had a talk, and I asked him "Do you want to be with me? Are you in love with me?" He didn't answer, so I said "It's a yes or no question." He said "No, it's more complicated than that..."

You can love someone, and not have the energy to be with them. It may be more complicated than just yes, or no. Don't demand that he talk until he is ready. Ask him to tell you his feelings when he is in the mood to do so, and he may help you understand much better what is in his heart.

I have heard good things about this web site (Link below, for help with organization around the home. I am a guy, and my W does most of the inside work at our house, but many here have raved about it.

Fly Lady

If you have to go to counseling, buy books, or whatever it takes, make a plan, and stick to it. No matter what happens, you will be more of the peson you want to be, and you will be happier for it.

I did a short reply on your other thread too. GQ usually gets more traffic than A/B.

God be with you.

SS

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>