First time posting any where.
I have been looking at the posts for a long time but have not seen a lot of talk about alcoholism and A's. I know that the root of our problem is alcohol on ws end and misdirection on my part to try and meet her needs. The last 6 years have gotten to be such a glumped up mess. I find we can go no where until sobriety is achieved. Way to much independent behavior and broken promises. Between the A and the alcohol sometimes I feel ready for the looney bin. Ws claims her A would not have happened with out alcohol involved (blackouts) but just can not get past the 3 week point in sobriety. The whole time she says she wants to save the M but does not bring anything to the table or will not try any of the MB suggestions. She also says there was nothing with the OM but a drinking relationship. I know deep inside she is a totally different person when she reaches a stretch of sobriety. She had over ten years at one point in the M. The main questions I have is how does all the MB stuff apply to a practicing alcoholic? Should I try to deal sanely with a person who is "wet/insane"? (Three times in the last year and a half we have been through detoxing at home. Shakes for 2-3 days just to get it out of her system) Is there anyone out there with a sucess story??? A story of hope or is in the middle of the same similar/ situation?? At this point we are seperated. I believe she has had no contact with the OM although she has been drinking heavily up until 1/10/05. Do the same rules apply to a WS who is lost (in the fog) both from alcohol and an A??? Before we seperated I worked on plan A as best as I could. Now that its progressed to a mixed up seperation-we still have contact-should it be treated like a Plan B??? As a recovering alcoholic I would like to try and help her sober up if I can. I've been going to Al-Anon for the past two years and have tried to keep my hands off her recovery unless she asks for help.
Any responses from people in recovery from both addictive worlds would be greatly appreciated

Hi - Welcome to marriagebuilders. Sorry no one answered you earlier. Weekends are slow. The Harley's say that this program will not work with someone with addiction problems.

So she needs to take care of that first. Is she going to AA?

Believer
Thanks for replying. Since I posted I picked up SAA and am about half way through reading it.
S has been through treatment twice in the last year and a half but never completed either one. Used and left before complete. She has attended AA off and on over the last two years but doesn't seem able to connect with anybody or anything within the program. From what I see, read and hear I need to take care of myself and daughter and let her take her course. With the seperation keep boundries. The boundries in place now are for her to have no contact with the OM (he lives 4 houses away) and give up the booze and drugs. If she makes it to the point of giving up the booze for a length of time would the MB suggestions apply? I have checked her out and know for a fact she drinks to blackouts. She claims she doesn't even remember having S with him. I caught them twice in 6 months. Many times when she has been drinking heavy she doesn't remember anything. It doesn't make it right or excuse the behavior but do the same suggestions apply. Writing a NC letter/Moving?/ Trying to deal with her when she is drinking or obsessing about drinking is overwhelming.

Alcoholism brings out the worst in people. Being an alcoholic myself it brought out the same behavior in me. Thats why I was close to suicide when I quit. I hated myself.

SIT BACK AND LET THE ALCOHOLISM TAKE ITS COURSE?
KEEP WORKING PLAN A AS BEST AS I CAN? AT WHAT POINT DO YOU MOVE ON TO PLAN B WHEN YOUR NOT 1000% SURE THE RELATIONSHIP IS OVER? ALCOHOLISM RUNS SO CLOSE IN BEHAVIOR TO A'S IT NOT FUNNY.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

REALITY IS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T COPE WITH DRUGS/ALCOHOL

Jerry -

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this. It's bad enough dealing with the A, but also dealing with an alcoholic is rough.

My WH won't admit he is an alcoholic, but both times he and the OW got together, they were drunk. What I have gathered is she is a "bar sl*$", and has a difficult time holding her alcohol. She told my WH everything he wanted to hear and fulfilled his EN and PN while on a business trip.

I've went through TWO Plan A false recoveries and moved on to Plan B three weeks ago. My WH has decided OW is NOT what he wanted. He misses me and his family. As hard as Plan B was, it apparently brought my H head out of the fog to see what his future holds.

I also have read (several times) SAA - excellent book. I've also picked up a book called "Repairing Your Marriage after His Affair: A Woman's Guide to Hope and Healing". They have a husband's version for a WW too. So far the book is very helpful.

Post and read lots - it helps. Also seeing a IC is a great benefit.

Steffany5

Thanks for replying. We may have something in common with the WS's and alcohol.
As an alcoholic in recovery I was a FWS. With the fog of alcohol and the fog of A's I couldn't hardly see past my nose. I knew the first time I cheated on my S. I could not tell tell her. From that point I do not honestly know how many one night stands I had.(fog) My S and I would be walking through a shopping mall or out in public and see a female we both knew and out of the blue she would say
"I bet you'd like to be with her-sexually" and then I'd get the silent treatment for hours or days after asking her "why would you say something like that?" I couldn't even remember it. (fog)It would be someone she had caught me drunk with or knew I had been with via other friends. At first she would tell me about it the next day.(fog) After that I think she gave up telling me because I would be out the next night or week doing the same thing and getting the same results. (fog)

The fog of both addictions totally blinded me to my own behavior. By the time I made it to treatment I was formulating a suicide plan. (Third times a charm-in treatment) I knew I hated myself but I couldn't tell you exactly why. (fog) There was only a shell of a man left with nothing inside. (fog) I just knew as a person I was lower than spit in the ranking order of life.
Now- I have been sober since August 1987 and have been a faithful husband since 1989. Might sound strange but we were split up after I was sober for six months. I saw no hope of the M getting back together so I started a "relationship". (fog still)

TRUTH-HAD AN AFFAIR

BIG BIG MISTAKE.

I justified it for a long time (years) (fog)that she had two EA's going while we were together and another EA/PA after we split. (truth by her admission)I justified it on her behavior. Nothing wrong with me-Its all you. (fog)

After being around this site no way- no how- is A going to happen again from my side. My focus is to try to save this M using the MB principles when and where I can. It is extremely hard with an alcoholic. Sense gets turned into nonsense real quick. The boundries I've laid out is that she has to quit drinking and no contact with OM before we can work on the M. I believe at this point she has had NC for about 2 months. The alcohol has been about 1 week. I'm still trying to work Plan A even though we are seperated. Not exactly sure if Plan B will be implemented. She wants to date me. Is this her fog or a way for us to try to start over? Is this the Plan A false recovery you were talking about in your last post? What do you think? Its tempting me but I would like to see more sobriety.

I know I have made mistakes along the way and I truly am trying to follow the right path now. My wedding ring stays on until the final papers are signed-if it goes to that point. I never want to return to the "pondscum" status again in my life.

I'm not implying that your WH's story is the same as mine but if alcohol is a problem then the problem is alcohol. A double dose of denial is created with both addictions. The world also seems very very distorted with both addictions.

I'll pray for you with your Plan B-that if its Gods will-that recovery will progress in the direction you would like to go in your M.

Please tell me or describe what a Plan A false recovery is. I don't know if I quite get it.

Also you mentioned a book in your last post-Who is the author-Is it something I could pick up locally or internet?

Sorry for rambling on. My daughter is with S this weekend and just needed to get some things out. Hope it makes sense.

Thanks
Jerry

A little history
H 46
W 40
Dated for 3 years
M 1982
DS-1983
DD-1993
WH- 1984-1987
BS-1984?-1987
H-Treated for alcoholism Aug1986-Still sober
W-Treated for alcoholism 1988,2001,2003,2004
W-Sober until 1999
WS-2003 EA? PA-Caught together in July and Nov of 2004
Seperated in Nov 2004 until the present
FWH-Al-Anon/AA/Church/Trying to work Plan A while enforcing boundries-gently

I am asking for help with this because I do not seem to get anywhere. The alcoholism mimics the affairs and I can not tell the difference without physically verifying information. Its just not possible to do that. All the lies and deception is still in place even though she swears there has been NC. The alcoholism keeps all the LB's alive that were present during the A. I am at the point where I chose not to live in limbo anymore. My WS is so far into the fog of both addictions at this point that I can't tell what is going on. Being seperated has only made it next to impossible to verify anything.

I have mixed the two addictions in my Plan B letter and would greatly appreciate comments. Is it too much? Not fair? ???

PLEASE RESPOND ASAP

Dear WS

There are so many issues out in front of us that is is no wonder it's confusing as to what's going on. I apologize to you for my part in helping to create this mess.

I know over the past years I have pursued "material things" foolishly trying to keep our family happy. The cost to the family was great but even greater to our relationship. I know I haven't always been emotionally available for you. I know I haven't helped as much as I could around the house or with DS and DD. I apologize to you for my part in helping to create an evironment where your two addictions are possible. Even at this point I can't seperate the two from each other. I was not there when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistakes.

I am willing to take what I have learned from past mistakes and try to create with you a new life for both of us where our needs could be met very well. I can't do this until your relationship with both addictions has ended.

Until that happens I will have no contact with you. I will not be able to help you with money. I will sign off the yellow checkbook and that can be yours.

Your Dad and Mom have agreed to help with any arrangements with the children. We agreed with DD -Every other day at 7 PM. I am still agreeable to this arrangement. Should an emergency arise call my cell phone. I promise I would do the same for you.

Please respect my descision to seperate from you this way. The alcohol and A with OM has caused a lot of suffering not only for me but the children as well. I love you WS but I simply can't keep going under the conditions as they are. Not knowing if it's alcohol, continuation of the A or a combination of both tears me apart.

As soon as you are willing to permanentely seperate from both addictions and are willing to take strong measures to ensure total seperation I will be willing to talk to you about the future.

I would love to rebuild our marriage some day. I want to be able to meet your needs and avoid at all costs doing anything that would hurt you. We have the ability to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do together makes us happy. Working towards that goal together would take hard work and effort but then there would never be a reason to seperate again. I would like to keep my soul mate status. I want to stay your best friend and the person who is always there when you need me.

I've loved you through our twenty five years and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I just can't be with you or continue to help you as long as alcohol and OM are in your life.

I have always love you

Jerry