We are 5 weeks from D-day and I am working hard on Plan A. My WW is lost in the fog, though the PA has ended she is still contacting him (EA). Frustrating!!! Now WW wants to separate and move into her own apartment leaving me with the 4 kids and the house.

My question, to date I have not exposed to the OM's wife for fear of pushing WS and OM together. I confronted OM and he said he would push WS away if I kept things quiet. OM has a business centered on families and this will cause havoc for those families and OM if I start talking since the EA/PA started there. While WS has left the business and is no longer seeing OM regularly at his suggestion, she is still foggy with OM. I am thinking it is time to expand the exposure circle, but it seems bitter. What do others think? Time to expose or wait for the fog to lift?

If the EA is still alive...which it is...then you need to expose! She is still contacting him, which he is allowing, thus still an A.

Imagine being the one in the "dark" about the A. Wouldn't you want to know how to fight the beast?

It is a tough position to be in but I feel you and your M, and also the OM marriage could only benefit from the exposure.

No one wants to be the bearer of bad news, but who wants a M based on lies and deceit? I know I wished someone would have been kind enough to share what information they had concerning my H infidelity with me. I truely was the last to know!

You're going to trust the OM to push your WW away? Right! the Fox is going to guard the henhouse.

Expose. Don't enable the affair.

MrMom,

I was MrMom for 13 years while working out of my home, I too have 4 kids and a home and without being cruel or hurtful, here is the truth...

If your WW is talking about getting her own place, she is still cheating. It is just that simple, she is willing to give it all away to pursue her illicit and disgusting affair.

You cannot believe anything that comes out of her mouth right now and you need to keep that in mind.

Now on to exposure, I can't tell you to do it or not, that is a personal decision however by not informing everyone of her behavior you are enabling them to carry on in secret, and affairs thrive on secrecy.

The only thing you really need to consider when you are trying figure out whether to expose or not is can YOU live with the exposure?

If you can't live with exposure you might as well pick out an apartment for her to have sex with the OM in now.

Just remember, all this is to try and restore your marriage and exposure is one piece of that process. I found though that what is more important here is that YOU are a better person nomatter what happens with your marriage.

Think of it this way, wouldn't you want to know if your spouse was sleeping around? Don't the families involved deserve to know the truth of what is happening? As long as you remain silent your WW can do as she pleases, screw your kids over and lie about what is actually happening to everyone important to you (that is your family, and her family) The OM's family also deserve to know the hellstorm that is raining down on them without their knowledge.

I speak from experience on this, you cannot concern yourself with how the WW, OM or anyone reacts to exposure. Right now your WW is planning her exit from your family, she has already told you she is willing to give you the children and the house???? Why would that be? Because she knows you wouldn't stand idly by and allow her to suck the children into her dirty world. So she will forsake them for the OM along with you, think about it, a mother willing to give up her kids? Where does that leave you?

Listen, you need let her know in no uncertain terms that if she chooses to leave you have things you need to do to insure the survival of your family and wll protect it even if she won't right now. It isn't a threat, it's a promise and you don't need to be cruel just firm and let her decide what she is going to do.

If she leaves you need to be strong enough to follow through. Personally I would expose right now before she leaves but some don't have the stomach for it, it's just a matter of what you can live with.

Keep plan A going strong but remember, the person inside your WW's skin right now is not the person you married and will do anything right now to continue her behavior.

Be strong, be smart
Protect your kids

Rebornman

Thanks for the thoughts. I believe that I have to talk to OM's wife first and then let the circle start to expand to other family's that are at risk. I have learned that OM has a habit of doing this.

Since Plan A suggests that I avoid the topic of the A with WW, I see no need to tell her what I am doing. She will learn as she starts to try to plug back into that network.

It still seems that this is going to just add to her hating me, which is against the Plan A effort. But, until she stops the A, there won't be any movement. I guess. . .

How do you tell another person their spouse is cheating?

MrMom,

Trust me, I feel for you and I understand how you feel about all this. It is still fresh with only 5 weeks since D-Day but you have to understand, she hates you right now for being in the way of what she thinks she wants, she doesn't care how the kids are affected by this and doesn't give a rats behind how you feel.

Exposure is just poking a hole in the fantasy bubble they have created around there behavior. Exposure puts pressure on the WW and OM, pressure they don't feel now because there is no pressure on them at all.

Like I said, it's up to you whether or not you do it but I waited for the same reasons you are professing and it wasn't a good thing.

How do you tell them? I did it very simply and with a ton of compassion. I explained who I was to the OM's Wife and then told her why I was calling...she cried and we met for coffee and I gave her a copy of "Surviving the affair"...her husband is a serial cheater and the book gave her some strength to tough it out.

I told all our families the same day, my side and hers. Of course all I said to her side was that WW was having an affair and I wasn't sure how much longer she was going to be around and I wanted them to know the truth before she said something.....to this day, NONE of her family has a relationship with her at all...however I do...

If you want to read more about my sitch just look below to "Help, I just got this e-mail emergency" thread. You'll see I had my issues with exposing but I did it and felt much better afterwards.

Good Luck MrMom
Stay strong
protect yourself and the kids

here is the beginning of my story

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002286

and here is the end?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002400

Thanks for the threads to your earlier experience. We have a lot in common it seems, though your WW seems to have been more broken up than mine. My wife appear either surface friendly with me and the kids or Cold As Ice. This cycle occurs several times per day, sometimes per hour.

You are 1 year out from D-Day. I am curious where you are at this time?

My WW has asked for a legal separation agreement leaving me the kids and house. That seems extreme, but I believe she does need some space to sort things out without me or the kids pushing. She also believes that she will be able to get back to OM lifestyle, but that will not be as easy as she thinks once exposure on that front starts.

MrMom,

If you read my threads you will see that my EX did the same thing. It is just a ploy to be able to continue with the infidelity.

She wants to leave those things to you in an agreement because she can't take them with her and still live in her fantasy world.

My EX did the same thing after a bit...pissy and cold then warm and feeling like dirt...All my advice to you is to expose BEFORE she gets a chance to leave or money is spent on lawyers with an agreement...I didn't expose before she left and I believe that made all the difference, a bad difference.

I thought all the same things you are right now...i.e. she'll hate me more, it seemed cruel and spiteful...blah,blah,blah....thats because your love is still strong and you don't want your WW to look bad in the eyes of others and you don't want her angry with you.

Here is the unfortunate newsflash MrMom- Your WW is ALREADY angry with you, she is blaming you for her conduct to alleviate the guilt. Even though you have nothing to do with her bedding another man, she will blame you for it.

I want you to think very carefully about one thing MrMom, try to do it without considering your WW's past with you. Think about this question as if she were a stranger or a story you read in the paper....What kind of woman abandons her children? And in that question also consider this...if she will ababndon her children, where does that leave you in the scheme of things?

I'm just offering some advice here and pointing out something I wish I had done differently....expose now before it goes any further, and that means scorched earth, tell everyone just be considerate and not cruel about it. MrMom, that means tell EVERYONE so that there is no safe haven left for them to continue.

I know it would have made all the difference in my situation.

Where am I at now you ask? Happy and content, divorced and glad to be. Raising my 4 kids the way I want, doing what I want, when I want to do it. The EX? Still living with the married man, has little, very little to do with the kids. The oldest 2 haven't spoken to her in...hmmm...5-6 months? The 2 younger ones won't see her while the OM is there, EX has taken the 2 youngest to spend the night a few times (just for 12 hours or so, it's about as much mothering as she can stand to do) and thats it. If she were to never come again it is to the point that the kids wouldn't miss her...sad but hey, she did it to herself.

I'm dating a woman who has 4 of her own, who's husband did the same thing to her(serial cheater) so it makes things much easier, she helped me quite a bit through some of the darker days.

Just to let you know, it is 14 months later and the whole thing is still my fault MrMom, I know you are hurting now, god knows I remember how friggin' horrible it was but be rest assured, whatever happens between you and your spouse from now on, if you follow the MB advice, it will get better....most importantly, you and your kids will get better. If the day comes tthat she is going to leave, do yourself a favor and be in the room with your 4 and make the WW explain to them why she is going. Don't let her get away telling half truths and lies.

I don't know how others feel about this but MrMom I would tell her you exposed this infidelity, what I mean is do it first thing in the morning and let her know you did it when you are done. When she calls or comes home all pissed, just let her know you did it because you are trying to protect your family and save it, at the same time I would tell her if she plans on leaving the 6 of you are going to sit in a room and she is going to explain what she is doing to the kids.

Thats enough for now...keep up plan A...it is a noble thing you are doing and I wish you all the success in the world.

RebornMan

one more thing MrMom....

She does NOT need space to work things out...what she needs is you doing a great plan A and no contact with OM...space is code for "I'm going to see the OM and pretend to work on us"

Sign yourself up for some counseling, tell her you are going and that she is welcome to join you and thats it! Don't bring it up again except to tell her when your appt. is. If the kids already know something sign them up as well, they need someone to talk to...maybe she will come eventually maybe not but the counseling is for you to be able to live and survive this, your kids too.

MrMom, She does NOT need space...trust me, your judgement is a little clouded because of the situation and that is completely normal. You want to go along to get along but what she is planning is the ultiamte in disrespect and she isn't doing anything for your benefit or your childrens. You are the sole protector of your family and you need to keep that in mind when making all your decisions.

There is only ONE person looking out for your family and that person is you....remember that

Reborn, Thanks as always for your thoughts and the detail with which you are willing to share your story. It is very helpful to me since I am too close to the persons and events in my own story. I am gaining perspective and strength with each passing day, but slowly.

Your thoughts on exposure are very logical. I have to share with others. Right now she truly believes that she can plug into that fake reality and continue the lies. If you had asked me 6 months ago I would have said my wife was the last person in the world that would lie about anything. My how things change. . . .

I am currently away on a business trip and as I left, she said to me that she hoped the kids would understand that she was leaving them and the house so that they could keep their current lifestyle . . . What a joke.! The kids know that she is not working on the marriage. My oldest proudly told me that she was glad I was "fighting" a divorce. That is what they are going to see. My three oldest are girls (14,12,10) I am hoping that they don't have to find out about the A, but when she moves out I fear it will become obvious quickly. I suspect they will react the same as your children. Did you tell them the details or did they discover it on their own after she moved out?

Right now my wife sounds like she is going to stall moving out. "getting a job" "need more money" "don't have time to look for an apartment" I wonder how exposure will affect the timing? I guess it doesn't matter. I have to expose out of respect to the OM's wife and family as well as our mutual friends that are being lied to. I also need her to know that the lie is NOT something she can go back to. I need to close the lie option. If she is going down that road, it should be at least honest with the world around her. She definately blames me or all of this.

You asked about counseling. I have been in counseling since things started. Initially, I did not know about the A. I discovered in during the first 2 weeks of counseling and my amazing counselor kept me from exploding myself and te family in the process. At this point, WW is in counseling with the same counselor. Nominally, it is marriage counseling but WW announced that she could not love me and was only hoping for better communication and that we might become friends. . . At least there is someone objective she can talk to that can help explode the lies and inconsistencies in her head. I can't do it and OM surely won't.

Thanks again for your thoughts and your kindness in remaining on these lists as you rebuild.

MrMom,

Glad to hear you were out of town, was beginning to wonder what was up. Whatever happens stick around here at MBer's, you won't find a better bunch of folks and support out the wazoo. If it hadn't been for this place I would have gone nuts. Think of it as a personal log and place to vent, learn and rebuild for the future.

I want you to know it is a growth process Mr., you are going to have amazingly good days coming and amazingly bad days, but I want you to know that as times goes on, whatever happens the good days will outnumber the bad eventually. I do know how dark it can get but just as the sun always rises, so will your newfound enlightenment brighten your days.

I was in the same boat Mr, my EX was the last person on earth I would think of as a liar, you have to remember that the person that is your spouse is on vacation right now and has been replaced with an evil replicant. The spouse may or may not come back from vacation but in the meantime you have to deal with the replicant with a strong plan A and exposure.

Mr., you know why she is saying she wants the kids to maintain the lifestyle right? Because she cannot continue HER lifestyle with the kids, they all do it for the most part and it is a wierd defense mechanism that WS's use to alleviate guilt and think they are dealing fairly with you...."See, I didn't take the kids, I'm not all that bad right?, let's be friends OK? No harm no foul right?"

As you can tell the logic and reasoning part of the WS brain is nonfunctional at this stage of the game.

About the kids, my oldest discovered my Ex's infidelity before I did and told me, so it didn't matter what I had to say about it he was telling his brothers and sister about it within days. He told me and I gathered up evidence and confronted her, she lied naturally but the damage was done. The other kids came to me and asked me about it and I told them the age appropriate truth. You would think that the kids finding out would be bad enough (as you can probably imagine how crushed and hurt they were and made it very clear to her) My 9yo D told her at one point that "you are married, you can't have BF's"...out of the mouths of babes huh?

Just remember Mr. if you don't expose and get the truth out, she WILL PUT HER VERSION OF THE TRUTH OUT THERE! And guess what you will sound like when you go to inform everyone of the truth? I'm sure you know exactly what you will sound like to others.

The part about it being your fault Mr.? Of course it is your fault, you are trying to stop her from doing it therefore all the problems in the marriage are your fault and she will rewrite the history of your marriage until it is a sad little thing that needed to end anyway.

All you can do is a good solid plan A, improving yourself and showing her what life will be like if she stays, if you have any questions about what that entails feel free to ask, not only can we help you with the things you ought to be doing but from experience I can certainly tell you some things you shouldn't do. If you are questioning a course of action post here and ask.

You need to think about the things that had been going wrong, things that she has complained about in the past, things you don't like about yourself and work on them...don't say what you are doing just do it. I wouldn't put any stock in the things she is saying right now that are wrong, think about what she has said in the past.

I've rambled a bit here but just know you have a place to go when you need it and plenty of people here that WANT your marriage to succeed.

If you ever need someone to vent to here you go

dreamland@wowway.com

feel free anytime

RebornMan

OK, next question then.

I just read on another posting of this site from a FWS that the communication was WOW and drove everything. Focus on listening and asking what the WS is feeling. WOW, this lead to an epiphany. That is exactly what my wife wants, but right now everytime I get her going there she heads to OM thoughts and I don't respond very well. She announced a week ago she will no longer mention that topic or person to me.

While I can still plan A, I am frustrated that she is hiding things. Yesterday, I asked how her day was and let her tell me. It was very open and positive. But, she left out a big block in the middle of he day when I have reason to believe she visited an old group of friends that include OM. I did not push so we ended pleasantly, but this is difficult to deal with. Do I push NC or not say anything about it, continue plan A, and expose. That is my thought for now.

At what point do I start a new thread in these discussions?

MrMom,

I understand your frustration, being the BS is hurtful, and frustrating but what you are really trying to do right now is offer an alternative to her infidelity.

Of course listen, but also if it starts to get to you do something as simple as look at you watch and say "I forgot I had "X' or "Z" to do" and go do something for a few minutes to clear your head. Even if it is a fake phone call at least you can extract yourself from a situation you feel isn't going well, or isn't fruitful and you find yourself losing your grip.

The thing is, you can't harp on the affair, you have to be trying to meet her emotional needs as best as she will allow and improve yourself in the meantime. You did very well by NOT inquiring about her time you assume was spent with OM and friends....bravo for you...it takes a strong man or woman to be able to do that. Try to keep relationship talk to a minimum!!!!!! (meaning less than not at all) Just take care of your kids, take care of yourself and that will speak louder than any words you may utter.

Now of course a human being can't go on like this forever but it has been 5-6 weeks now and you should try at least 6 months before moving to another plan and hey if you find things getting better in 6 months, go another 6 months if you can but know this, without doing the BEST PLAN A you can, you will always have doubts in the back of your mind about if you'd done this or, if I'd done that so really try, try, try...

The bottom line is Plan A and expose right now MrMom.

No Contact will come later....

Good Luck Bud....talk later, it's dart night and I have to get going

RebornMan

Now for the latest twist. At lunch today, WS informed me that she does not want to move out. She cannot imagine being away from the kids. If I want to file for divorce, she understands. But, she would rather stay in the house and just live separately. She also wants to go back to the group of friends that includes OM, but not work on that relationship for now.

It was a friendly discussion and other than a brief discussion of her love for OM, I did a great job of Plan A I think. Is this a good thing? I have no idea. NC was not mentioned as I felt it would be LB and break an otherwise excellent discussion. I guess if she is in the house and we are a family I can plan A easier. But, she is miles from working on the relationship.

I welcome suggestions from others on this one.

MrMom,

I know you want others to chime in but this forum isn't a real busy one for some reason so your stuck with me for now....lol....I'll post somewhere else and see if I can get others in on this for you.

Alright, if she is staying then you can keep it up...OK? Keep improving yourself, keep the kids well-taken care of, keep showing her a loving alternative. You could also tell her you have no intention of Divorcing her or leaving the children and her, it is just reassuring and not smothering...baby steps Mr., baby steps...your doing fine....in and of itself that is a whole lot of progress in a short amount of time.

There are ways of getting the message across that you don't approve of her getting back in with that circle of friends (obviously they aren't the kind of friends she needs, they all knew she was fooling around and apparently approved, not good influences) but if she starts turning this thing around and breaks through the fog she will see how disrespectful THEY were to her marriage for making it OK to pursue the OM.

She's not done with this guy yet but you already knew that MrMom...just keep being the BEST man you can be, the best MrMom and do it for yourself, yes I said yourself because whether or not WW wants to come along for the ride with you is up to her, you can't force her, she's a big girl. However, you will be a much better man in the end either way and being the best we can be is all we can ask for out of life.

So get busy MrMom, you have a long road ahead of you and we have a lot of work to do....

Are you up for it?

Just a little piece of advice, it won't cost you anything so you'll get exactly what you paid for...lol...pick one thing TODAY. One thing today you would like to change about yourself and work on it. Work on it for a few days till it is a habit and then pick something else to start working on....like I said, baby steps Mr. and all will be well.

Your doing fine soldier, carry on

go hug the kids and read them a story

Thanks. We won't be giving up the ship anytime soon.

I still haven't read the surviving the affair book. It is ordered, but has not come in yet. I look forward to that.

In the meantime, do I avoid all questions about OM?? I had a bad realization last night regarding an event at New Years. I want to ask, but figure that will likely be LB and I probably can't believe the answer anyway.

Hey Mr.,

You'll devour that book, and not just once. There are sections and anecdotal stuff in there that will directly apply to you so read it a few times to get a full handle on the material.

Onto the other stuff...Why ask her about New Years? Why bother? It won't change anything and she probably wouldn't tell you the truth anyway and that is definately 3 steps backwards. It is much better if you don't force the alien to lie to you.

Look Mr.Mom, your WW already knows you disaprove of what she is doing, disapprove of the OM and are angry about her trying to wreck your family right? The more you focus on him, the more SHE focus's on him OK? Don't put her in the position of defending the OM because she will, the OM is someone not worthy of your time or attention...get it? Don't make it seem like he IS worthy of your time or attention. Don't forget exposure Mr....must be done. Every sitch is different, I used the scorched earth policy...some find the concentric circle approach works...ratcheting up the exposure in an ever widening circle....whichever is fine just use what you think will fit your sitch.

What you need to do is focus on you and the kids, keep the conversation light and non-confrontational...don't be tempted to get into relationship talk or try to overpower with the lovey-dovey stuff.

Find out what her emotional needs are (if you don't already know) and meet them the best she will allow you too at this point.

I'll tell you one thing from experience, when I didn't act like I cared about the OM one way or the other the WW asked me if I didn't care about us anymore...wierd question huh? You know what I said? I said "Of course I care about us but why would I waste any energy I could be using to make my home a better place on someone who is trying to destroy my happiness? I don't think about the OM anymore than I do the death of the ant I stepped on this morning"

Stuff like that hits like a brick and trust me, her world has been in turmoil since the 2 of them moved in together. I've had a few drunken phone calls from her, it's just to bad they came too late for me. She hasn't tried for almost 2 months, i think she finally got the message.

Hopefully your alien will see it before you don't care anymore.

Get busy Mr.

I love the description of the alien. My WW wants me to decide to stay in the house with her or file for Divorce. I made my choice before she suggested she was moving out 10 days ago. Keeping it light is the best path. I think you are right.

I would like to have more confidence in her emotional needs. I think that I know them, but she doesn't want to open up much to let me confirm. I have read about this survey that she can take, but I am not sure that my asking her to do this would be a good thing right now. Is it available on the web here somewhere or is it in the book?

I would love to have her read some of the articles here and probably the book when I get it, but again I don't think she will want to go there. Better to just read those things for me I guess.