Got a note from my H today saying he had changed his address, and I needed to take his names of any bills that are still in his name or joint - not that I could take his name off the mortgage if I wanted to. Once again he does something and then tells me afterward - he took me off our one joint credit card and didn't bother to tell me until after I tried to buy gas with it and was refused. He doesn't have the b**** to tell me anything ahead of time, or he just enjoys the power trip of running the show. I sent him an email telling him how sick his kids are and he hasn't even responded to ask how they are doing. I am so tempted to write him a long and nasty email telling him what a flaming coward he has always been. How I was the one who made the mistake taking him back and then marrying him a year after I came home from work one day to find he had moved out - he moved back a few hours later. How I suspect that he has cheated on me before, since his reaction seemed more one of anger than concern when I had an abnormal pap smear a few years ago and they thought it might be HPV but were surprised because I should have been low risk, since he is the only one I have ever been with and supposedly he had only had two other partners, one of whom was a virgin at the time. <P>He doesn't believe our seven year old can read well enough, although he has never once heard her read, so he first has his lawyer sending me a letter telling me to cooperate with a school evaluation, and then calls up and arranges it. Of course he blames me, as I am homeschooling her, and obviously I do a sh**y job of it, which is why one of our two kids who were homeschooled in high school was accepted to a prestigious college, and the other started college at 16 on an academic scholarship and got straight A's in all her academic courses. I don't want to put our seven year old through the stress, and the real reason he wants her evaluated is because the slut thinks she has behavioral problems because she has temper tantrums there and embarrasses her. <P>No, I don't want counseling. I want to raise my kids by myself without his interference and especially without the interference of the sl**. He never had any opinions when he was here - what right does he have to micromanage their lives after he has deserted them? Several people have bemoaned the fact that their spouses only call the kids a few times a week - he has called them 3 or 4 times since he left 10 months ago. I would give him his frigging divorce tomorrow, with visitation, if he would give me sole custody. I s***ks that the courts in this state let deserters have joint legal custody, overnight visitation with the sl** - even though adultery is a criminal offense.

Nellie, honey, I don't know what to tell you. I can only say that you can vent here anytime you need to. Only when you feel like you've had enough, will you be able to let go. I can't believe that he is behaving so badly. <BR>As for the criminal misconduct, I'm glad I don't know whether it's like that in my state or not. I'd be really tempted to press charges. "The Ultimate Love Buster"... <BR>Hang in there and be strong for your kids.

Nellie,<BR>I think you have to determine exactly what you want from him that is either legally or somehow attainable. Then figure out your best chance of making it happen and follow your plan.<P>Calling him names will not likely increase your chances of a favorable outcome of any kind.<P>For whatever reason, you H has in the cruelest ways possible shown that he is at least at this time the poorest excuse as a H and a father. <P>There is probably nothing you can do or say to make him be otherwise.<P>Therefore, concentrate on living the best possible life as Nellie and as your children's mother and best as you can, ignore your H's bad behavior.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Nellie:<P>As a supplement to FHL's comments, I think you should seek out and hire an excellent attorney. My guess is there's alot you can do regarding physical custody of the kids and possibly even sole legal custody. Also, I don't think your husband can legally keep you from moving (although you may have to bear transportation costs associated with his visitation). I say THE HE** with him. It's time to get aggressive in your own best interest and that of the kids.<P>I also think some sort of a Plan B might be called for. Not for the purposes of saving the marriage, but for your own sanity. How about you use Caller-ID and never talk to him. How about you block his e-mails and force him through an intermediary for child logistics discussions. It doesn't seem like he adds any value in decisions regarding the kids so maybe it's time to leave him out of them.<BR>

FHL,<BR>Unfortunately, there is nothing in this state that is attainable. The non-custodial parent has all the rights that the custodial parent does, and none of the responsibilities, except for child support. He doesn't have to see them, but I have to let him if he wants to. He doesn't have to have any input into educational or medical decisions, but I have to abide by his decisions or take him to court. <P>Knowing what I do now about the likelihood that your spouse will turn into a completely different person, it is obviously insane to have children with someone else, except perhaps by A.I. <P>Mitzi,<BR>I don't know that anyone has actually been jailed on adultery charges in recent history. Adultery is apparently only a factor for the custodial parent - the non-custodial parent can do whatever he/she wants, with no impact on his "rights" as a parent.

Nellie,<BR>Although we are all here because of some dysfunction in our relationship due to some degree of infidelity, not ALL marriages experience such tragedy and some recover. True, none of us can take anything for granted, but we can live our lives best we can, regardless of our circumstances.<P>Although you need to be angry and you need to grieve and you need to work a variety of emotions through...you also need to know what you are striving for for yourself and for the role model you want to set for your children.<P>There is no way to guarantee any or all of your children will find a loving trustworthy partner that will go the distance...do you really want to plant a message of bitterness and despair for their hopes of love and family?<P>You feel what you feel, but you can choose to work toward feeling differently. It is unfair that you have to be the strong healthy parent and your H gets to be the Bozo, but that seems to be the way it is.<P>Are you serious about wanting to move to a different state? Have you explored all your legal options? Are you sure your H would oppose you?<P>I'd get a excellent attorney and go for anything that will benefit you and your children.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Distressed,<BR>Unfortunately, in this state, I am not allowed to move out of state with the kids unless I have his permission. Caller-id is not an issue - he never calls, except to say that he will be there in a few minutes, or whatever. He welcomes going through an intermediary - on several occasions he has told his attorney to write me a letter about something that could have been resolved easily without getting the attorney involved - but since he is undoubtedly not paying the attorney fees himself, what does he care. What I don't appreciate is being called up by the school department and informed that he has requested an evaluation - I have to go along with it or fight it in court. I would love to leave him out of the decisions, but he is doing his best to make my life and theirs a living H*** - I strongly suspect that the OW has strong opinions about what the kids should or should not be doing, and he is too much of a wimp to buck her. <P>Everything is a freaking power trip for him. He knows I don't want the kids to have nintendo etc, or violent games, so that is exactly what he gave them for Christmas, with the stipulation that they stay at the OW's house. Of course it is a good way to keep them out of his and her hair while they are there - my son has told me that sometimes he spends all day playing nintendo, playstation, and gameboy (her kids apparently have all three, along with a computer and a tv in every bedroom). He got angry at our son for not liking James Bond - "most teenage boys like James Bond", he claimed.

I don't know what state you live in but where are you getting your information? All states let you move out of state if it is based on a better job ie more money. He can not take your name off a true joint account anywhere (I know I have tried) Now if it is account where you are allowed use priviledges that is different. All you have to do is call the credit card companies and they can tell you what kind of account you have. If the card is based on his paycheck he is responsible and can not be removed. If it is based on both incomes then it remains joint and no one can take any name off of it. <P>Things are not going to improve and it is time you protected your self and the kids. I would like to know who is telling you this information. Most states do not give non custodial parent any true powers. I think he is feeding you this information. Have you seen or talked to an attorney? Nellie this is very important.<P>------------------<BR>di<P><p>[This message has been edited by SDS (edited January 03, 2000).]

di,<BR>Unfortunately, I have gotten my information from the three attorneys I talked to, as well as books and websites specifically aimed at this state. In our state, joint legal custody is normally awarded unless there is abuse. <P>The card he took my name off of was in his name. Fortunately my other credit cards have always been in my name. He was referring to taking his name off the utility bills, for instance, which are mostly in both our names. <P>FHL,<P>Yes, I am sure he would oppose an out-of-state move, perhaps even if it were right over the border. He has two personalities at the moment - one wants to see his kids, is disappointed if they want to go to a party instead, shows up bright and early to pick them up - the other personality tells me he won't babysit so I can do something that will benefit the children, because it is my responsibility to provide childcare, tells the kids he "can't" see them anymore than he already is, and cuts back on visitation without warning to them or to me. The only explanation that makes sense is that he and the OW have made an agreement that he can see the kids x amount and no more, and he wants to take full advantage of his "allowed" visitation.<P>No, I don't want them to be bitter and despairing - just realistic. If I had had any clue that so many long-term marriages are destroyed by infidelity, I would have run my life very differently - I doubt very much that I would have married, and if I had, I certainly never would have given up my home, my friends, my job, and my pension to follow my H. And if I had had children with him, I would have had them much earlier, so that I wouldn't still be raising kids as a sixty year old single parent. I hope when my children plan their lives, they plan them without the assumption that their spouse, if they have one, will be there, and they need to be aware that by having children with someone they are giving away the ability to raise their children according to their goals and values to someone whose goals and values may change drastically overnight. We planned for the eventuality that one of us might die - but never for the eventuality that one of us might turn into a completely different person.

You know, on the subject of being "realistic."<P>I'm one of those people who learned at an early age that the only person I could rely on was myself. I had to parent my mother after my father left, and I've always felt that people will ultimately let me down.<P>It's not a fun way to live.<P>For the first 12 years of my marriage, I lived pretty much a separate life from my H. It was like we were friends and roommates with sex, not a team. I was terrified of getting "lost" in the marriage, of losing "me" in "we." No amount of time spent with him got rid of that. I had my own friends, my own social life. Often on weekends, I was too busy with other things to spend much time with him.<P>It all came to a head in spring of 1998, when I was finishing my master's, and he found a group of co-workers, including Dragon Lady, to spend time with.<P>Boy, was THAT ever a wake-up call. One thing I decided to do as part of OUR recovery was to open up to him more -- as much as that hurt and as hard as it was with Dragon Lady breathing down my neck. But he's responded really well, and we're closer than ever.<P>Nellie, please don't do this to your children. You have every right to be angry and bitter; as much of a right as my mother did. But believe me when I tell you -- you are NOT doing your children a favor by teaching them that they can't rely on anyone. If you teach them this, you are cheating them out of a CHANCE at intimacy.<P>Yes, there are many couples damaged by infidelity. But don't forget...you're getting a skewed sample here. Yes, your H is being particularly hostile. But he's one man, not all of them.<P>Don't ask your children to shut their emotions in a box. Or they too will be spending 80 bucks a week to try and work it all out when they're 40.

Dazed,<BR>My H has always been able to shut up his emotions in a box, as were his parents. I have never done that - although I never felt like I was losing my identity, I was reasonably trusting, obviously too trusting, and always felt close to my H. Look where that got me. My H now has the companionship, the money, etc. I think it quite possible that he will never wake up and feel the guilt. Is what he has true happiness - I don't know, but what difference does it make as long as he perceives it as happiness - and it is a d*** sight better than the pain that the family he left behind is feeling.<P>Yes, he is just one man, a small sample. But there are many, many other betrayed, both here and in "real life", whose spouses are just as cruel, if not worse. Then there are all the families whose lives are destroyed by alcoholism or drug use. Taken all together, this is not a small sample - it is a fairly large percentage of the population as a whole. <P>I am not cheating them out of a chance of intimacy. But it is important for them to make the choose intimacy, or not, with their eyes open. My H and I spent 19 years teaching the children of the importance of family. I originally wanted them to believe that family would always be there for them. I was very happy that my children are close friends with each other as well as siblings. My H once told a prospective employer during an interview that the most important feature of a job was flexibility, because his family was so important to him. In the space of a day, my H managed to throw 19 years of example out the the window. Yes, he is only one man, but he is not just some random man who is the exception to the rule, but THE ONE PARTICULAR MAN who had been a role model in the teaching of the value of family.

nellie1,<P>I know at least one woman who chose to move out of state. yes, she has to let her son see his dad, but he has to give her adequate notice, and she doesn't have to pay the travel expenses. This "dad" cheated on her for a year, then dumped her for this secretary. He also had the gall to expect his son to be a ring-bearer in his wedding to the *lut. Just because your state "normally" does things a certain way doesn't mean that is what you'll end up with. You've been the stay-at-home mom for quite awhile. There is no way this guy is going to walk away clean. Many,many states are cracking down hard on deadbeat dads. Get an excellent attorney that has a good track record of getting more than what the state "allows" for settlements. It is very likely you can get a decent alimony (at least 2 yrs worth) on top of the child support. You can work out the rest.

TheStudent,<BR>Everything I have read indicates that it is difficult to get alimony as well as child support in this state. One of the attorneys I talked to thought she could - but she was just a little too enthusiastic, saying that he might have to pay X - which happened to exceed his take-home. Somehow, I don't think they would make him pay more than he earns. <P>You know what is kind of depressing - the number of times I seem to read lately, for example in your post, but also in others I have seen in the past few days, where it is mentioned that someone dumped his wife for the OW, and then married the OW. That, combined with my friend saying, "They hardly ever come back" and my sister regalling me with stories of men who suddenly left long term marriages for the OW and have been married to the OW for years and years, doesn't do much for my mood.

Nellie1,<BR>I'm so sorry. I didn't want to hurt you. I added that last bit in because I wanted you to know that this guy still had to pay. I agree, you don't need to be going to an attorney that will give you lots of feel-good BS. I still think it is possible to find someone who will do more than just status-quo though. <P>

Nellie,<BR>May this new year begin to bring you some better times than those of the last year.<P>My EH did the same...cancelled the spousal credit card as i was setting my son up for college in Aug (then denied it in front of the court!) and I was refused credit. He has pulled all this S..T since June so I am prepared for whatever now. He is in default of household bills and the court has decided that i now get child support and spousal interm support but i have to pay all household bills.....since many are direct debit from his account, he will have to take the time to make the changes, which he does not want to do as it "takes time away from "fun' and he is too important. Well if he does not do this, i will not pay. Let your h do the work at making these changes, why should you...you have so much more important stuff to do with the kids.<BR>Nellie, it is a long and hard road and my children are scared by much of this. Their trust in people is not there and they are scared of having children as it has shown them the down side when one parwent goes "off the wall" Trust is lost and this is so sad for us all.<BR>