My wife and I are in one of those extreme, polar episodes right now. And frankly, I'm not feeling like I want to relent right now. I am so upset with her. This probably isn't the forum to vent my emotions in, but hopefully someone out there (a betrayer like me) might have some insight or compassion.<P>My wife and I are having trouble resolving conflict. By conflict, I mean we have a disagreement and tempers escalate to a boilover point at which there is no possible way to solve the arguement. Tonight we've reached a boil-over point, and yet again set an unprecedented milestone in our lifetime together (and I don't mean a pleasant one). Last week we had a long mutual discussion over backing out and giving space till things simmer down. Where do promises go in times like these? I think she has an enourmous amount of resentment towards me still, ever sense I had the affair. She's said she forgives me, but I keep seeing these episodes errupt that are out of her normal behavior. Little things turn to BIG issues. It's more than me just understanding how she feels. I think she subconciously thinks I'm the devil...<P>But really- right now we've both uttered the "D" word and are standing our ground firmly. I feel I've done nothing wrong, and that she's making be dillusional. This isn't healthy for either of us, especially the kids. I don't know what to do...<P>The small disagreement was that I believe we should both be individuals as well as soul mates. By this I mean we should both retain some degree of personal freedom. Now, I'm not saying keep big secrets (especially in light of the affair), but rather enjoy personal time to reflect on our own individual wants, desires, and yes- needs. For example, I sometimes am not ready to divulge my personal feelings/views about something. Maybe they're not shaped yet, or I'm unsure of them. She will detect I'm pondering, and INSIST I tell her. She took personal offense to my statement about freedom. I just think she's being too polar about it. I just want .001% of me as only me. Anyway, I've spilled my guts. Sorry for the long sermon, I just needed somewhere to vent. I'm not feeling to hot about our marriage right now.<P>- BBD

BBD,<P>Yes... this is the right place to vent...<P>Anytime someone is doing anything to build their marriage... this is the place.<P>Constructive criticism is practiced here...<P>Your want for "enjoying personal time" is important... but as you're going through recovery... your W is very vulnerable and may see this as sign you will backslide. Are you wrong? Is she wrong? Are your right?, Is she right? NO, NO, NO, NO, AND YES, YES, YES, YES.<P>Feelings are never wrong...<BR>But during recovery is it suggested both spouses practice Plan A... i.e. No love busters and trying to meet each other's emotional needs. Trying to put your spouses need ahead of your own... is an incredible gift. Is philosophical pettiness <B>all THAT important</B>! In the big picture of recovery???<P>Are you (two) in some form of counseling? A <B>good</B> counseler can give you better focus... Some of what you are focusing on may be lost?<P>My prayers for you!<BR>Seek good guidance... <P>Jim

BBD,<P>Since I'm a betrayer, and at the point of disclosure, you might find some help in reading both my posts and the responses I've received. Just to a search with my username.<P>I will tell you that trust is a bigger issue for the betrayed than I realized and am still realizing.<P>I'm am beginning to understand that I must be willing to share EVERYTHING with her at this point. I am convinced that that will be the only way we can rebuild trust. Don't misunderstand, I don't we need to shoot off at the mouth and tell every detail about everything. But if she asks and wants to know, I'm going to tell her.<P>I think you need to be completely open with her right now, if you are serious about rebuilding your relationship that is.<P>We'll be praying for you.<P>------------------<BR>Hold on, Hold on to yourself, this is gonna hurt like hell. Sarah McLauchlin<P>Col 1:14<BR>

OK. Philosophical pettiness? I think if you were in my shoes you wouldn't be calling it petty. I'm very unhappy right now. My wife and I don't have a traditional H/W relationship. I am very open and expressive towards her. I've always allowed her to ask me questions about anything, anytime. We both are very communicative and open. It's just the way we are. But lately I'm feeling very restricted, almost like I'm imprisoned. That may seem like a selfish thing to say given my track record, but it's still a feeling as you put it yourself. I do understand about striving to put my Ws needs before mine, but I think we both have to work on each other's needs- mutually and simultaneously. This is very hard, sometimes I think we both want to drop anchor and jump ship. But you know, we have too much going for us. Outside of these problems (which are a result of the affair), we have a happy family. And seven years of marriage is nothing to shake a stick at. It's just a hard time right now, need encouragement.<BR>

Repenting- <P>Have shared everything with her since time of confession (6 months+ ago). Seems to have been the right decision for us (note- others will tell you not to but for us it worked best). We're moving along pretty well now, just still dealing with the trust issue as you put it. It's a feeling, one we don't have so that makes it hard to understand (if we can even claim to)

At this point in time the fact you want some freedom is very frightening to your W. Trust take a very long time. You have to earn it. And now you are talking about freedom sorry I can understand why it is a big deal to your wife. There has not been enough time for you to earn her trust. As much as she may want to trust you she can't. You can not expect her to understand your desire for any type of freedom. She sees it has keeping secrets and hiding things you do not want her to know. You just had an affair and it hasn't been that long ago that you keep things from her. In order to have your freedom later, you have to share everything now, so the trust can be built. Any secrets or anything not shared builds a wall that keeps you two apart. I know I am rambling, but I can understand her point of view. She is scared to death. It is hard to explain but what your wife is going through and her reactions are normal for the situation. You will have to expect this kind of response from her and if you truely want to get through this You will have to back off. You can not expect her to do anything else at this time. You have to earn ever freedom, the trust you once had and her forgiveness. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

BBD-<BR>What SDS described to you about your wife's emotions is dead on. I can't pinpoint the day, but I know it took over a year to feel good about trusting him again. Then the joker went and cheated again so I had to start over. Same emotions again after discovery, but second time around, I have come to a place more of indifference than actual anxiety related to trust issues. My point is, the process is "normal" and more importantly, it takes a lot of time, more than you would imagine.<P>You explained yourself well here regarding the "freedom", but perhaps your W is sensitive to the entire notion of "freedom" My H and I can freely use term freedom as we both believe in individual interests, etc. Ironically however, I, have developed a gross dislike of the phrase "I need space" Go figure.<P>I know you feel like you're "locked down" now. Keep taking steps toward each other. You shall meet again.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened

Hi Ya Big Dummy, (sorry but I loved saying that....) (wanted to call my husband that many, many times, that infidel sucker !)<P>Unless you have experienced the breach of trust, you will never know how destructive your emotional infidelity has been. I do not mean that in a mean spirited fashion but you have to see it in her eyes also. She has to believe IN YOU and WHAT YOU SAY AND DO. <P>In order to be involved with someone else and become emotionally connected. You learn to be evasive, vague, talk out of both sides of your mouth....YOU KEPT SECRETS...WELL ....NO WONDER SHE'S SCARED TO DEATH WHEN IT APPEARS YOU NEED SPACE ...that feels like secrets again.....and maybe your connecting with someone again !<P>Please give your wife the courtesy of telling her everything....you may likely find, as in our case, that after awhile, she will no longer need to know everything and yes, she will believe in you again and trust your words. Won't happen overnight...but it will go along way towards good feelings. <P>...and don't you want her to have good feelings towards you...if one of you has to be a loser for the other one to win....you need to re-think your steadfast position.<P>Don't mean to be tough on you but to help ya see her perspective.<P>Might also help if you devoured all Harleys stuff for your own recovery. You might find other stuff useful that might be helpful towards your wife's recovery..<BR>-Tina<P>

BBD,<P>Just re-reading some of the replies made... it may look like we're coming down hard on you. It is <B>not</B> our intent to do so... believe me.<P>There are many betrayers(waywards) here on the forum...seek them out and ask their advice... perhaps that can present the point of view we are attempting to provide with a bit more gentility... <P>We respect what you've done so far... beyond all measure! It is teriffic that you've decided to reconcile. <P>Many of the betrayed here(myself included) may be stuck on the fact that normally it is us who have to fight so hard to get the betrayed back. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> is not just for the betrayed... it is for <B>you too</B>! So we're just asking you to put some of that same kind of effort we have to encourage each other to put forth! Saving a marriage <B>is</B> hard work, regardless of from side/angle the workers are coming from.<P>Don't feel antagonized by us...<BR>Stay a while...<BR>Read about some of the other side(s) of issues raised...<BR>You will get much more insight into your W's perspective...<BR>And as you post... we get insight into the wayward's perspective... especially during recovery... something many of us can only dream about.<P>BBD... you are loved here... <BR>Don't go away...<P>Jim

Big Big Dummy,<P>Don't worry, you are not the only one that is going to get a talkin' to today. Your wife will also get some words from me.<P>I don't know which angle to address this from first, since I believe there are several contributing factors in your situation. Some of which are caused or at least exaggerated by your affair, and some of which are the dynamics of your relationship.<P>OK...first I'll go with your wife's emotional state. She's still nuts. I can say that in all fondness and I can say that because I've been there. I think I'm finally graduating from it and Saturday it will be one year since I discovered my H's affair.<P>Looking back I can easily identify my pain timeline. Two months hard to get out of bed pain (but had to behave normally). Was getting a bit better and found additional information...bam...tack on two more months intense pain and toss in a healthy dose of raw anger. Then at about 4 1/2 months, it got a little better. I could breath without hurting, I was no longer surprised to here my voice talking in a normal tone. That was in May. You pretty much know my history from there. I still thought about the affair 24/7 just about, but the pain wasn't all engulfing anymore. But it could come back at any time, many times without warning or an obvious trigger. With the pain attack, usually a degree of paranoia or nuttiness would revisit and I would search the house and cars top to bottom or beleive he really could be leading a double life. Being in sales, I could still be my Plan A self, but emotionally I could feel very distant, like my H was a stranger. Then it would get better.<P>Now (last six weeks or so) it is way better. I don't know why, but instead of reliving the pain and feelings over and over, it is now like remembering a sad past event. In Novemember, I saw no end to my pain. Now I can honestly say I believe someday it will truly be behind me.<P>If you are still awake, the point I am making is that your wife is bobbing in a sea of emotions over which she has little control. Even though it feels like this is forever, it will keep getting better...or all of a sudden it will be much better. You may have your own timeline for your own emotions. Just hold on. It has been tough, it is tough, it will be tough. Expect a bumpy road and don't be surprised when you hit them for a while. You just crossed the 6 month marker. Keep yourself strapped. Mr. Toad's Wild Ride isn't over. Sorry.<P>Now my own H believes communication is only necessary to exchange vital information. He is not a conversationalist. If he wanted to get in touch with him emotions he would have to go on a hike and take a shovel to dig them up. He is easy going, affectionate, fun and rarely shows a temper so it's not like he's a stone or something, but it is hard for me to relate to a more emotionally charged relationship like yours. However, I have empathy to what got you into your arguement in the first place.<P>As much as I complain about my H being clueless and as much as I think I long for more emotional intimacy, I think a more intense relationship would have its downside. I enjoy much freedom and space and so does my H. I think I am much wiser about that space now, but filling it up with 100% us would not be a good thing.<P>I think your fight may have been one that your wife reacted out of fear, like earlier posts and your intentions were misinterpreted. Then it got out of hand, because that's what your cycle has called for. There was no excuse for that on either of your parts. You have got to break the cycle.<P>I would never advise being married less than seven years and never be under 30...it is too hard. You are both defining yourselves as individuals in your 20's and as you go through these first stages of marriage and family, you are still sorting out the power structure. When you toss in your way of handling conflict and the added burden of the affair, you are basically sitting on a powder keg.<P>See your situation for what it is, stick to your goal for a happy marriage and family and do what it takes to make it happen.<P>I recommend reading some books together and just exploring relationship stuff without personalizing everything. You definetly need some skills that you can both use to deflate a situation rather than esculate it. You know that, already.<P>And just wait it out. It eventually will get better. Your wife's need to micromanage your life will lesson and your feelings of imprisonment will lesson.<P>It is worth holding on to and it is worth doing whatever it takes to make it better. You know what you want, figure out what it will take to get the two of you there and then do whatever it takes.<P>All the best!!!!<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Mr. D,<P>Maybe this might help. <A HREF="http://www.anger-stress-marriage.com/discus/index.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.anger-stress-marriage.com/discus/index.html</A> or <A HREF="http://www.anger-stress-marriage.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.anger-stress-marriage.com/</A> If you have the knowledge, then you have the power to make the changes in this relationship - reducing and resolving conflict. <P>Trust is a different issue, and that is earned. 6 months isn't very long - so, don't have too much of an expectation there. Keep working to meet each other's needs, and learn more effective communication skills. The trust will follow, and the lovebank will fill up faster and make the conflicts you have in your relationship feel minimal.<P>Conflict is always present when there are more than one opinion. How to resolve conflict seems to be the knowledge and power you need now.<P>tnt

BBD<BR>I am not trying to rain on your parade, back in 1997 I found out my husband had been going out with another woman from work for over 3 years. When I insisted it stop he claimed they were only friends and if I didn't let him see her he was leaving. At that point I became a dummy and relented. I have been paying for it ever since. Last year she began working in his shop and they are closer now than they ever had been. I have anxiety attacks on a daily basis. From your wifes point of view it will be a long time before she fully trusts you again BUT you need to give her that time. AND yopu need to be fully open with her and patient no matter what she asks or how she acts. She obviously loves you if she stayed!<BR>It sounds like you are closer to recovery than I am.