<BR>No not me, my H. He never ceases to amaze me. He called tonight and I told him about taking the boys to counseling. He doesn't seem to think they need it. Too bad!! Then he asked if I called OW. She told him that I called today. NOT!! I have no reason to call if he's not there (he's out of town working). I was nice to him and answered his questions but it took all my strength not to explode. HE told ME to stop being a b***h to HIM!! I have done nothing but be nice. Whenever I talk to him or see him, he finds some reason to try and argue with me. I'm not playing that game. I told him that I loved him and he still had a home with us anytime. He of course said "OK". I hope he's miserable!! I'm trying to be as nice as I can to him and he's being an a**. I want so bad to tell him all the bad stuff I know about OW but then he'd just defend her. Sometimes I wish I was a violent person!!!

Mitzi,<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you. I know exactly where you are at right now. I wish I had some sage advice for you but I don't. Please know that I understand how you are feeling and I am sure so many others do to.<BR>He is probably being an a*s because he is feeling guilty. Try not to take everything he says to heart. I know 'easier said than done' but sometimes an attitude changs on our part helps with our own perspective.<BR>I hope I have helped even if it is just a little.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Many times when a betrayer wants to justify having his/her affair, they make their spouses out to be a bad person....and so that is their excuse to have the affair. They imagine that the OP is a better person than their own spouses. In reality, this is just another dynamic of the affair.<P>When my H was drinking and involved in his affair, and I still didn't know about MB or Plan A, I used to tell him that the OW is a slut and bad person for having an affair w/a married man. What did my H do? He defended her and said that she is his friend and wouldn't do that. Yeah, right!<P>He was so blinded in his affair that he just didn't want to accept the fact that anyone who consciously (sorry, I know I spelled that word wrong) continues an affair knowing that their lover is married (and with kids even) is scum in my book!<P>When my H ended his affair and sobered up, he now realizes what kind of person OW is. She is a manipulating B##CH. He does agree with me with everything I say now.<P>People involved in affairs are not in their right state of mind. Their judgment, morals, values, are clouded by the "high" of the affair.<P>Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I understand how you feel, but also why your H is acting so irrational.<P>Your H and OW are alcoholics right? They support each other's addiction....first the alcohol and then the affair. No one else really supports this, so that is why they use each other as a crutch for their destructive habits.<P>I'm glad that you are letting your H know that your home is a "safe" place for him. When he is ready to wake up and come to his senses, then he will know that you are a forgiving person and that your marriage is worth saving. I just hope that he doesn't take too long before he wakes up.<P>I know this is hard for you. I'll be praying for you.

Hi Mitzi, the ow must be feeling somewhat insecure. When my H's ow started feeling that he wasn't spending much time with her - he was starting to stay more home with as and there was a glimp of reconciliation in ther air, she kept leaving him this messages that I had called her.The first time, still in la-la land he did bellieve her and came back home asking if I had called her.I don't lie, and he knows that - not because I'm too honest, I just realised I can't keep my stories straigh if I do, so better not - and I asked him just that.He was still in doubt. But as she kept complaining more and more that I was calling her, sometimes at times me and H were together and there was no chance I had called, he started getting feed up and seeing it for what it was, a trick to get us to argue or get upset at each other.<BR>At the beginin he also couldn't see the ow doing anything wrong, she was just perfect in every way, she had no flaws,made no mistakes... ya know.It was only after things were over that he could see clearer - but that is a trademark of all affairs, I'm afraid -.He still prefers to put all the blame on his shoulders, and not blame her for what happened, but he acknowledges that he was very naive where she was concerned.<BR>ANyway, all that just to tell you that I do understand. <BR>Take care<BR>Kat

I understand all the above. I know that she is insecure, why else would she need to have relationships with married men. (My H isn't the first). And yes, she is also an alcoholic and supports this. I try not to say anything bad about her. I did at first but he doesn't see her that way even though he's known her for about 5 years. <BR>At least if I vent here, I won't say those things to him and just push him away even more. He acts like I'm the one who had the affair and that he has every right to be mad at me. <BR>If I could get him to come home and stay away from her a little, this would be so much easier.

That’s why we are here mitzi, if we vent here we wont let those LB out where they can do damage. <BR>Lesa<P>------------------<BR>maybe someday<P>

Being nice about all of this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I want so bad to yell and scream at him, maybe beat some sense into him (or at least try). Then I'd like to go after OW. Like to do everything mean, nasty and spiteful to her that I can think of. But I'd end up in jail and farther down on his list of favorite people.

sorry....double-post<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited January 04, 2000).]

Mitzi....my H's ex-OW is a barslut. <BR> Boy...there were many times when I <BR>wanted to get a 2x4 and beat the <BR>living crap out of her! Won't <BR>though....don't want to end up in <BR>jail...isn't worth it, you know.<P>p.s. A thump on my H's head too, for being an idiot and getting involved with her.

OW also a barslut here too!! It's amazng how they can see them for anything else. He just doesn't want to see. She's also sleeping with at least 2 other men besides him. But it's his choice to be blind. I have no patience for this. I'm trying so hard, but with hardly any progress. Hopefully soon, he'll be willing to talk if nothing else. He's always been a poor communicator. That was part of the problem. He just felt like he couldn't open up to anyone let alone to me. I shared everything with him. Even the "dumb" stuff. Oposites attract so they say!!

My H couldn't see clearly until after exposure of the affair, almost hitting rock-bottom, giving up alcohol...and going through the withdrawal process of the addiction. Although the affair ended in late February of last year, he drove me nuts, off & on until end of August. It was one doozy of a rollercoaster ride. Sometimes I would ask, "What the hell am I doing here??!!"<P>Gosh...I wish your H would give up the alcohol...then, he will start to see clearly...all the destruction that has taken place. He will see the OW for what she really is and how much he is about to lose if he doesn't clean up his act.

This affair is relatively new. It just started about 2 and 1/2 months ago. I only found out about it 11 days ago. I hope he comes to his senses soon. He just keeps getting stranger and stranger. I wish I had found MB 6 months ago. Maybe this wouldn't have happened. <BR>If it's not too personal, what happened to your husband to help him hit bottom??

My H's rock-bottom was when he realized that he was turning into a man that he didn't like. He used to despise his co-workers (men) who were having affairs and messing up their lives. But then, he started to hang around them and turned to be just like them. He became the type of person that he loathed.<P>He realized that he was drinking too much (daily), was never home, kids (2 yr old & 4 yr old) were even acting distant towards him, I was always unhappy, crying, going crazy, we fought all the time (where in the past, we rarely fought). He didn't like that he had an affair and hurt me. He told me that he couldn't believe the kind of person that he had become. He said that he had never been cruel to anyone and couldn't believe how cruel he had treated me. He realized that his drinking was the root of our problem. One day, he spent hours & hours in a bar.....really pathetic.<P>Towards the end of my limit....I started to just work on myself. I became, in a way, indifferent. Instead of sulking at home, I started taking the kids out almost daily....just to get out of the house. When I was home, I kept busy with crafts. I visited friends and prepared myself for what it would be like (mentally) as a single mother.<P>Funny thing was when I finally just accepted my fate....decided to move back to my hometown (2000 miles away) was the day that he woke up. I was ready to leave that week....had already spoken with family for help with moving expenses and the U-Haul. Asked my MIL to say "goodbye" to my H's relatives and the reason why I couldn't say it myself..since I would be leaving so suddenly.<P>I hadn't even told my H about my plans. I was just going to leave 'cause it seemed that he didn't give a damn what me & the kids did anyway. He wasn't ever home. It must have been deja vu because HE WOKE UP!<P>I prayed and prayed. I really believe that God answered my prayers.

I wish H would wake up. He has been drinking for 20 yrs and is only 32 (dysfunctional childhood). He totaled a car before we got married, and ended up in jail for 36 hours. Lost his license for 6 months which turned into 3 yrs.(We couldn't afford to have him on our insurance and couldn't afford the DUI classes). He just wrecked our car in Sept. (hit a deer on the way home from a bar). He's not close with his kids. (He is not around enough). He was also in 2 car accidents with someone else driving who was drunk. God, this sounds so pathetic. Maybe nothing will ever wake him up. It just seems like the last 6 months, he got way out of hand. He works out of a union hall and work was slow. He was laid off alot this year and spent even more time with his bar buddies. It seems most of our problems occur when he's not working much. All I ever wanted him to do was spend time with me and the kids. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Gee Mitzi...with all that mess going on, you would have thought your H would have had his wake-up call long long ago. It sounds like he has to crash & burn. I can't believe he hasn't hit rock-bottom yet. However, we are looking at this from a non-alcoholic's point of view. When a person is addicted, they just can't see rationally.<P>Keep staying strong for yourself and your children. I can imagine how hard this is for you. You are in my thoughts.

When he got the DUI before we were married, he quit drinking for 3 months. Then in '91 he quit for 4 months. So I know he can do it. Or at least he could. Now it's been so long since he's tried, I'm thinking it might be too late for him. He's starting to lose weight, the whites of his eyes are turning yellow, and his hands shake all the time. Maybe since he is getting this bad, it won't take him long to hit bottom. You'd think after 20 yrs he's have hit by now!!!

Mitzi...I was replying to Sidney's post and realized that my reply to her would pertain to you too.<P>Although I went to some Al-Anon meetings, I was also in therapy. My therapist recommended that I get and read the book, "Codependent No More," by Melodie Beattie. I picked up my paperback copy at Barnes & Noble for $13.95.<P>Here's a short excerpt from it:<P>"This book is not about how you can help your alcoholic [gambler, foodaholic, workaholic, sexaholic, criminal, rebellious teenager, neurotic patient, another codependent, or any combination of the above]...This book is about your most important and probably most neglected responsibility: taking care of yourself. It's about what you can do to start feeling better."<P>p.s. Here's the definition of a codependent (according to this book). A codependent is a person who is tormented by other people's behavior.<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited January 05, 2000).]

Mitzi,<P>Hang in there!! Keep praying, keep doing Plan A. It WILL be worth it! Your husband is trying to manipulate you and to try to find a way to blame you for his affair. Alcoholics ALWAYS lie - especially to themselves. My husband did the same thing to me for 6 mos. In his eyes he justified his 2 love affairs (alcohol and the OW) by blaming me, convincing himself that I was a raving crazy b***h, because I wanted him to come home after work and stay out of the bars. <P>Like NoTrust, when I became indifferent to him and had made up my mind that our marriage was over and I had to go on by myself and for my son, he wanted to come home. He still drinks, but I know that the Lord is working on that. <P>I pray for you every night Mitzi. I know so well how hard this is for you and feel every bit of your pain. Only God can remove that pain from your heart. When it starts to well up in your heart, say a quick prayer asking the Lord to carry you though this and remove the pain. He will. <P>Love to you,<BR>AW

You all don't know how much all of the support means to me! If I hadn't found MB I would have just thrown in the towel. It's really a sad situation we've all been thrown into. Unfair too. But one good thing has come of this, we have found true friends who do not judge us, but honestly care and support us no matter what our decision is. Everyone here is going thru basically the same thing so it's easier to open up. In my case, most of my friends and family think I should have had his stuff packed and ready for him. They just don't understand how much I love my H and I believe in marriage. Right now, divorce is not an option to me. <BR>Thanks for making my days easier to cope with.<BR>Love, hugs and prayers<BR>Mitzi