Dear List,<P>My wife was having an affair 3 years ago and we were within two months of having the divorce finalized. However, after attending a weekend marriage retreat we decided to give it another chance. Shortly there after she told me that she was pregnant and gave birth to a lovely daughter 8.5 months later. <P>For a few months, after calling off the divorce, things seemed to go fine. Then the world turned.... she stopped accepting my offers to do things as a couple (e.g., turning down chances to accompany me on business trips/vacations to Hawaii, Chicago, Seattle, etc.) and doing other things to strengthen our relationship (dates ,etc). She freely admits that she put (always has) the children before me (and many other things in my opinion).<P>Six months ago she moved out of the bedroom and stopped wearing her wedding ring. She denies that she is seeing anyone. She claims that she just doesn't have feelings for me anymore and doesn't feel comfortable in the marriage bed or wearing her ring.<P>We started to see a marriage counselor who has given the standard advice. However, she comments to me that she does not see it helping and questions me as to what I hope to get out of it. My reply is that we will get out of it what we put into it... but I feel she is not putting any effort (hope) into our marriage and has not for some time. I believe that she may be using the counseling sessions as an exit strategy. That is, an exit strategy, which will allow her to say to herself and others that she tried and it just wouldn't work no matter what either of us did… that we have just grown too far apart etc...<P>Currently, I am trying to get what I can out of counseling and do what I can to build the relationship (love bank deposits, etc) but I have a few questions for the list.<P>#1) Do I take her word that she is not involved with anyone or do I investigate?<P>#2) Do I talk to a lawyer now? Ever indication I see is that she is moving toward ending the marriage.<P>#3) What if any legal ramifications exist if I am not the biological father of our daughter?<P>Custody issues really concern me. It tears my heart out when I think of an OM raising the children. Three years ago I was fighting costly drawn out custody battle (psych evals, reference letters, dads groups, etc). Now with two children and one that I may not be the biological father of, my chances are slim to none of winning. Consequently, the BEST I can hope for is a minimized legal battle that results in joint custody with good visiting rights and reasonable support payments, which is far from ideal (and unfortunately may be very optimistic).<P>Any and all of your comments would be appreciated. <P>T2<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We started to see a marriage counselor who has given the standard advice<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What's the advice consisting of?? Are you getting the "MarriageBuilders" type counseling, or something different.<P>Without knowing more, I'd suggest that you concentrate on elimininating lovebusters---all the good deeds (meeting needs) goes out the window very quickly if you're lovebusting.<P>Your wife also is exhibiting signs of having an affair. I think it's important to establish that, so I would recommend that you do investigate.<P>You could certainly "talk" with a lawyer, although if you start to pursue any legal avenues, you'll probably have a more difficult time reconciling the marriage. I'm a big proponent of "complete honesty", so if I was going to talk to a lawyer, I'd have a concrete reason for doing so, and I'd probably tell my wife. So again, you need to figure out if your wife is having an affair (and it's impossible to figure out that she's NOT---so you're going to need to be doing the other "marriagebuilding" tactics while you're working on investigating this).<P>Legal ramifications vary with your daughter. You are presumed to be the father (in most states) if you and your wife were married when the child was born. The only way to challenge that is through legal action. As one of our members here stated (Bystander??), he's aware of cases in which the husband still owed child support, even though the child wasn't "biologically" his. My third child is the product of an affair as well---I don't worry about custody battles, I worry about making the marriage the best that it can be.<P>I think that this is probably a good tactic for you as well. Focus your efforts on your marriage, get a good counselor if you're not happy with your current one (I like Steve Harley here at Marriagebuilders). It's unlikely that you will ever get sole physical custody of your children (due to a wife's affair), so it's important that you fight for the marriage, and the good of the kids.

K,<P>We are using "Family Life" counselors that come with a Randy Carlson and Kevin Lehman backgrounds ( <A HREF="http://www.flc.org" TARGET=_blank>http://www.flc.org</A> ).<P>During the last 3 weeks we have gone to three sessions. The advice our counselor has given consisted of understanding how we communicate differently (taking the "color test") making a plan to stop love busters and asking us to go out on a date (planned for tomorrow).<P>I suggessted Steve Harley originally. However, my wife was uncomfortable with counseling over the phone... <P>Thanks for the reply. <P>T2<P><p>[This message has been edited by Triumph2 (edited January 09, 2000).]

#1) Investigate. Absolutely. I consider this one type of marriage "insurance," when behavior warrants it (and your W's behavior IS warranting it right now).<P>#2) It never hurts to get legal advice from an attorney specializing in the field. Better to be prepared.<P>#3) Same answer as #2.<P>Is your counselor on the same wavelength with you and your W as to what you hope to accomplish in counseling? We told our first counselor that we had a multitude of problems and needed help sorting through them. We were told that we exhibited ALL the signs of an unstable, non-lasting relationship. Well, that's "nice" to know but I wished for a more positive plan for WORKING on those problems instead of just being told negatively that it wasn't going to work. We told our second (and current) counselor that we had a multitude of problems but we were committed to working them out, so help us with our sadly lacking communication skills. That seemed to do the trick. Direct your counselor to exactly what your goal is as a couple.<P>Laura<BR>

Going down this path (AGAIN) to determine if wife is having an affair and consulting lawyers is a painful and expensive process. Originally (3 years ago), I dived into this ugly process with both feet and hated what it did to me emotionally, spiritually and ... I finally, feel I have emerged from that mess and the prospect of going through it again is not something I look forward to. But I believe that you are both right, I do need to do a little invistigation into the truth.<P>My current thought on a lawyer is that they may do more harm than good. Until I/she makes clear (or it is uncovered) the real situation and hopes of working things out are made clear, I may try to find a lawyer I can talk to anonymously.<P>Tonight we are following through on the counselor's suggesstion of a date. We will meet for a dinner out. My wife did not call it a date but a meeting to talk...lately she has been super critical and sensitive to anything that I say (date vs. meeting to talk) so much so I have limited my conversations with her. <P>The counselor's philosophy has been to give us tools to improve our relationship (e.g., better ways to communicate, etc). However, my wife focus seems to be on our differences not on what can be done to improve things. I do not think that she is going to these sessions to improve things. Instead, I feel that she is using them as her exit strategy, so if she is having another affair or not, she can say she really tried and it just didn't work.<P>

Everything you've heard in the replies are good.<P>But I want to emphasize NO LOVEBUSTERS, and making deposits in her lovebank - if it is possible.<P>There are more ways to make deposits than dates. <P>What are her most important emotional needs? What did you discover when you went on the retreat? What did you used to do that made her happy? Start there, and see if you can find some creative ways to make some deposits.<P>I get the biggest charge out of little tiny gifts of affection... If my husband buys me a newspaper (he knows I miss getting a newspaper delivered)... If he makes me coffee (he doesn't drink coffee).....<P>When he is honest. When he considers MY children, or is kind to MY children. When he thanks me for something I've done for him.<P>Work hard, I think it is good to protect yourself, but more importantly if you want your marriage to work, you've got to make sure you do NOT lovebust. Be a good friend, and find out what is a lovebuster to your wife.<P>tnt

Your wife's behaviour strongly indicates an on-going affair. Removing the wedding ring & herself from the marriage bed is a very, very strong indicator of infidelity.<P><I>#1) Do I take her word that she is not involved with anyone or do I investigate?</I><P>Trust is important in a marriage. So is honesty. Where there is precious little trust or honesty, there has to be a reason... I would advise you to make a discreet investigation. The best way to go about this would be to hire a private investigator to see if she is telling you the truth. Hire a professional, let him find out if anything's happening or not, and then you'll know for certain what is and isn't going on...<P><I>#2) Do I talk to a lawyer now? Every indication I see is that she is moving toward ending the marriage.</I><P>Yes, talking to a lawyer now will save you a lot of trouble later if things go poorly. Seeing a lawyer doesn't mean that you will get divorced, only that you are preparing for the worst-case scenario. Far too many people never prepare and are devestated by the legal processes/costs of a divorce. Take steps to protect yourself, your assets, and your rights regarding your children <I>now.</I><P><I>#3) What if any legal ramifications exist if I am not the biological father of our daughter?</I><P>Legally, in some parts of the USA, you may be responsible for the child, even if it isn't biologically yours, because your name is on the birth certificate as the father and because they were born while you were married to the mother (and never contested paternity). If it turns out the child isn't yours, you may have to take your case to court to remove your legal responsibilities for the child.<P>If it turns out that your wife is still being unfaithful, I would advise confronting her with the evidence (make sure your private investigator gets pictures!) and ask her for complete, total, honest disclosure. You deserve to know what's going on in your marriage. If she's being unfaithful, you may not only want to get a paternity test done (on <I>all</I> your children - who knows how long she's been unfaithful) but you should also have yourself tested for sexually transmitted diseases...<P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<P>

I appreciate the advice! I want to post what where I currently stand on the 3 Qs and then move on to a new post.<P>#1) To investigate or not?<P>I've taken steps in this direction... we'll see what turns up. There seems to be consensus that her actions are VERY indicative of an affair.<P>#2) Consult a lawer?<P>I tracked down Richard S. Victor's phone number. He's a well known family law attorney in Oakland County (OC), MI. I am holding off on calling for the moment.<P>This attorney helped develop the Start Making it Liveable for Everone (SMILE) program for parents going through divorce & I think all OC parents going through divorce must go to the program. If anyone has any insights about this attorney or one you would recommend instead that is in Oakland County, MI please email me directly at triumph2@mail.com. <P>#3)Biological relationship with child. I guess the only way I would push for the test is if she went back to the OM. Otherwise, I am legally and otherwise considered the father and that is what I am and will be.<P>

Good for you! You seem to be taking the advice to heart. If it helps at all I work in an attorney's office part time (my H's) and I know that most attorney's will be very discrete about giving advice if you explain where you stand. I know that many men come into the office thinking that things may or may not be wrong and he just advises them of their positions and then goes on. I also know of one man who married a pregnant woman and accepted the child as his own and then went on to a divorce. The true biological father tried to terminate the rights and lost in court, the one that won was the man that accepted this child as his own from day one, that unless you allow someone to terminate your rights it will never happen, check this out. Be safe rather than sorry and do go see the attorney, most offer a free initial consultation and if you explain that your not sure weather or not the services will be needed with be good enough to direct you in a positive direction. The time to see an attorney is before you need him. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>