I really want to try and understand what my H is feeling and thinking because he doesn't really communicate these things to me. I would ask but don't want to 'stir things up' if he feels like things are healing just fine. He just got home (day and a half early) from a sledding trip and I understand the circumstances of WHY he came home early but I am left wondering if trust is an issue as well. I do know that I have to earn his trust again but I can't help but to feel a little defensive. Leaving me home alone has never been an issue in the past - I guess I just have to learn to deal with the way things are right now because I am the betrayer.<P>Anyway, I will get to my questions. I try and put myself in his shoes (the one who was betrayed) but I think I need a 'reality check' to slap me back into line so please don't hold anything back.<P>1. When a marriage is rebuilding and trying to heal, is the affair ALWAYS in the back of your mind?<P>2. Do things people say or movies in general that have any sort of infidelity in them 'trigger' thoughts?<P>3. If you don't know full details of the single sexual encounter (my H didn't want details), do you try and visual what happened?<P>4. Is the infidelity thought about every day?<P>5. Do you always 'wonder' every time your spouse who betrayed you talks to or about someone of the opposit sex?<P>I think that I know all of the answers and should just ask my H because he will tell me the truth but he doesn't want me to EVER bring up what happened. <P>I am basically just asking for you to voice some opinions in my direction - good or bad please.<P>Thanks,<BR>Brynn

brynn,<P>From my experience the answer is a resounding YES! Each and every question !<P>I wish I could say different but that has been what I have felt for a long time and the feelings were all consuming at first.<P>One thing you can be grateful for is that your H doesn't want any details. I think that is the difference between men and women, the women want to know it all and then are eaten alive by the details.<P>This whole ordeal is a process and you just have to go with it and allow your H to somehow find a common ground for reconciliation, which may or may not be based on any kind of trust right away.<P>I myself think the blind trust is gone once and affair occurs and is replaced with a kind of eyes wide open form of trust.<P>I'm know the betrayed/betrayer both circle their own mountain of hurt for awhile.<P>Hangeth thou in their!!!!!!!<P>

Definitely yes, except #3, but men are more visual.

Hi Brynn,<P>I'll see if I can answer some of your questions.<P><BR>1. When a marriage is rebuilding and trying to heal, is the affair ALWAYS in the back of your mind?<P>I would'nt say that it is there ALL the time, but it is there often. Every situation is different, for me I tend to think about it more because of the other things that I lost because of the affair. Whenever I am at work (not doing what I really want to or what I was trained for) is a reminder almost every day, when I look at my paycheck (much less), school (or lack there of), ect.. These things tend to make me think about it more than I would otherwise. But no I don't think that it would be in my mind near as much if it were not for the after effects.<P><BR>2. Do things people say or movies in general that have any sort of infidelity in them 'trigger' thoughts?<P>For me, definitly yes. Whenever I see r hear something that reminds me, it brings alot of memories back. I try to avoid situations where I know that I'll be reminded.<P><BR>3. If you don't know full details of the single sexual encounter (my H didn't want details), do you try and visual what happened? <P>I do know many of the details of what happened not all, but enough, and yes I still sometimes think about her with another man. I just force the thought out as quick as I can, it is counter productive and too painfull. I can't say that if I did not know details that I would still do the same, probably would, don't know.<P><BR>4. Is the infidelity thought about every day?<P>Not every day, but often (see #1 for reasons)<P><BR>5. Do you always 'wonder' every time your spouse who betrayed you talks to or about someone of the opposite sex?<P>No, not really. If the realtionship went beyond just casual contact or conversation, yes I would be suspicious. I'm sure I will be for some time.<P><BR>It does get better every day, slow but sure the bad thoughts are going away, just takes time.<P>Good luck, <P>Jason

I can't really answer from a perspective of healing the marriage yet, but only how I feel at this point.<P><B>1. When a marriage is rebuilding and trying to heal, is the affair ALWAYS in the back of your mind?</B><BR>No it is not always in the back of my mind.<P><B>2. Do things people say or movies in general that have any sort of infidelity in them 'trigger' thoughts?</B><BR>Absolutely!<P><B>3. If you don't know full details of the single sexual encounter (my H didn't want details), do you try and visual what happened?</B><BR>No, my imagination is probably more vivid than what really happened.<P><B>4. Is the infidelity thought about every day?</B><BR>It's in my thoughts but I don't dwell on it all the time.<P><B>5. Do you always 'wonder' every time your spouse who betrayed you talks to or about someone of the opposit sex?</B><BR>No.<P>I noticed that you use the words "always" and "every." Don't use absolutes. Almost nothing is "ever" or "always."<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Okay. Here are my answers:<P>1. My H & I are rebuilding, but the affair is STILL in the back of my mind.<P>2. Yes, on the triggers. Just recently, my H requested that I bake him chocolate chip cookies. Instantly, a trigger hit! I remembered when he came home with chocolate chip cookies from her! When I watch TV and the story turns out to be about infidelity, I start swearing under my breath. A lot of times, I change the channel. When I see the sign of the town the OW lives at, a trigger hits, and I get pissed off.<P>3. Yes, sometimes I look at my H and I feel disgusted. I visualize him with OW having sex. Then I am repulsed by him and pissed off. I try not to let him know what I am thinking, though. Don't want to Lovebust.<P>4. I think that in some way, I think about it everyday. Some days I think about it more than other days. Today, I'm hardly thinking about it.<P>5. I don't like when my H talks to someone of the opposite sex. Prior to the affair, it didn't bother me. Now, it does bother me.

Hi Brynn,<P>I've never responded to any of your posts before, but YES, YES, etc etc etc.<P>For me personally, for about 5 months, every waking moment was filled with what he'd done with OW, where they had gone, what they said etc etc etc.<P>My H works with OW, so his days are filled with her. That drove me insane, while we were still together, so much so that I left the state and moved 1000 kms away to be with my family. I left because he wouldn't commit to me, our family, conselling - he just didn't know what/who he wanted.<P>You're so very lucky ??? that you obviously want to try and repair your marriage, and that your H is willing to try also.<BR>My H doesn't want any part of reconciliation, even though his relationship with OW is apparently on the rocks.<P>Speaking for myself personally, I would probably do exactly the same thing your H did, ie, come home early from being away. The thoughts of you (or my H) being by themeselves would be just too much, at this early stage. Not right I know, but hey, we're all trying to deal with this horrible monster the best way we can.<P>I can imagine that it's going to be very hard for you over the coming months, the seeming lack of trust, the anger, the hurt etc. that you are going to have to deal with. And I feel that you are going to have stand by and basically take most of it on the chin. Sorry. I know how I would be feeling if I were your H. BUT, if you really love your H, and he really loves you, you will overcome this. And hopefully, your marriage will be better and stronger for it. It will be more honest and open, and more loving.<BR>That is what I pray for everyone here, and of course, for myself.<P>As a betrayed, I have learnt so much from this board. Could maybe your H read some of the posts, and talk to us, thereby realising that he is not alone, and that there are others going through exactly what he is going through, and more importantly, understand what he is going through ?<P>If he doesn't want to read the 'puter, maybe you could print some of the relevant discussions and leave them for him to read.<P>Just a thought.<P>I feel for everyone here at MB - whether betrayed or the betrayer. I think that what we all have to go through is diabolical, and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy (except OW of course !!!) BUT<BR>I firmly believe that we will be better for the ordeal. We will be more honest, more loving, and better able to deal with a relationship. Whether that relationship is with our spouses, or someone new, who knows. But we will be better people. We will have learnt, and grown. And that is a wonderful thing.<P>So Brynn, I hope I've answered some questions for you, and given you a slight perspective of what your H must be going through. Maybe the guys will do a better job at answering from a male perspective than I have - but good luck, and all the best.<P>I'll follow your story.<P>Jo

Hi Brynn-<P>I wanted to answer for you-I would love to help <P>1.YES-always<P>2.YES-absolutely<P>3.NO-I don't want to go there<P>4.YES-all day every day<P>5.NO-I refuse to go that far-I live one day<BR> at a time!<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Let me preface this by saying I think the male betrayed (in general) may be able to compartmentalize a little bit better than a female betrayed.<P>My own experience is that the affair became a giant filter in which every thought seemed to go through.<P>My sense of self was badly damaged...not my self esteem...but the idea that I was a happily married wife and mom that could count on her life as it was. Hard to explain.<P>I also lost the abilility to discern reality. What was real, what was unreasonable. I could feel or think one way, then the idea that my H could make my life a lie and without my knowledge could creep in and I would question if the sun rose in the morning. I really think I was "losing it" in general for a while.<P>Brynn, I'm not singling you out or trying to be sound superior. But it blows me away when any betrayer can be defensive or surprised about the trust issue. I mean a betrayer lied and cheated on the one person he/she promised to be faithful to and to love for the rest of their life. And it comes as a surprise that they are not trusted? A betrayer violates the their marriage and in my opinion of themselves and they are indignant that a couple of weeks later the spouse can not trust them?<P>The spouse wonders who their partner even is or what they are capable of. They wonder if they are the loser of the century to have a spouse that would grind their relationship into the dirt. A betrayed is hurt and angry and disorientated, but usually it is up to them to hold the marriage together.<P>So to answer your questions. Yes, I thought about the affair 24/7, but maybe some men do not. I thought mostly in terms of how I could save my marriage, but many times I my mind would repeat over and over that I was married to an adulterous liar.<P>Triggers were everywhere.<P>Visuals are like silent movies that you can't quit shut your eyes to. I didn't know my H's OW's name or what she looked like and they were still vivid.<P>Recently (dicovery was January 8, 1999) I surprised myself when I didn't think about it in the past hour...never mind day.<P>Ironically I do not wonder every time my H interacts with the oppiset sex. Occasionally I do.<P>However, I was always 100% to making my marriage work and making it better. I forgave my H easily, but I had a hard time accepting he would do such a thing. It was so out of character for him. I trust him, but I realize there is nothing on earth I can do to make him trustworthy.<P>Our marriage is better than ever.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Brynn, you seem to be doing fine.<BR>Here's my answers( rememebr they are my own perspective, other people might feel differently )<BR>1) Yes. Unfortunately it is there, sometimes more than others. It takes a long time untill it's basically gone. But honestly I'm not sure if it will ever completely go away. We've been in recovery for over one year, things are great with us. I don't usually think aout the affair, but sometimes it does come back. It doesn't hurt me as it used to, but comes back even if just for a moment.<P>2. Yes! similar situations with friends and people I know used to hit me hard, and for a long while we had a ban on any movie that would touch the infidelity subject no matter how minor.H implemented it after seing my reaction to some movies . It's getting better, but as a rule we're watching action movies, adventure, kids movies, that kind of stuff just to be on the safe side <P>3. In my case, no. That is something I never did, I never visualised or imagined what might have happened in terms of sex with them, and I didn't ask for details either. I knew that it had happened, felt no need to know more. Well... sometimes I would feel curious but not for long.<P>4. In the begining yes, as time passed by and things started to improve I tried to get that out of my way. It was not helping reconciliation and I wanted to use my energy on positive things like get my marriage ack on track again. Lately as I said, it's a very occasional tought, sometimes triggered by other things, but not painfull or destructive.<P>5. No.As long as we're doing fine and I feel we're working together, I have no problem with whom he talks. After all during the day we see lots of people from both sexes, and talk to them. If I was going to start worrying everytime H talked to a woman, than I would be ready for the little man inthe white jackets pretty soon . I do oppose and would have a problem if H went out for lunch or anything like that with a person of the opposite sex without me, or if he was meeting such person when I wasn't around, but that's a different situation.We're both quite friendly - and we come from Portugal where people get closer and touch more with no special plans in mind - so I have no problem if H naturally hugs one of our friends or stuff like that.But I do have a problem if he does the same to a woman I don't know , I guess just because it implies some sort of friendship that I am not aware and it's against our new rules. The exception is the ow. I do have a problem with him talking to her at any time for any reason, but then again that's understandable, right? <P>It's interesting though, your H doesn't want to talk about it, I would have loved my H to be able to talk about it with me at that time. As I said I didn't want details nor even anything about the ow, but I really would like to know what he was thinking and feeling. However he wasn't ready to do that at the time. He's been opening more since, but he still has a lot of problems doing so - then again this has nothing to do with the affair, he was always like that ever since I met him.<BR>Hope this has helped.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited January 04, 2000).]

Here goes-<P>1. Initially YES, but fades with time and progress in rebuilding.<P>2. YES, you would be surprised. Triggers can pop up w/o notice about the most subtle things. Much of the reason why the betrayer often views the instantaneous Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde transformation. Something as simple as seeing the sign for her exit on the expressway was enough to trigger me.<P>3. No, I don't TRY to visualize, often something triggers my "imagination" to create this picture. I wanted all the details EXCEPT the sexual. The only question I asked was did he shower with her. Only asked that because he seemed to want to do this w/me much more often.<P>4. Initially YES, this also fades with time and progress.<P>5. NO, but maybe I should have...he's done this (affair) more than once. <P>God Bless Brynn,<BR>Enlightened<p>[This message has been edited by Enlightened (edited January 04, 2000).]

1. yes, but not as often now.<BR>2. yes<BR>3. yes<BR>4. yes - but less than I did months ago.<BR>5. occasionally- but more worried about the males intentions, my wife is a pretty and sexy woman, and if I couldn't trust the Om,<BR>( who pretended to be a friend to get to her) than who can I trust?<P>R/A<p>[This message has been edited by ripped apart (edited January 04, 2000).]

Hi Brynn -<P>You're getting good replies to the questions you posed - they should be helpful.<P>I have another major concern in my head about what you have posted here....<P>How can you say you are rebuilding if you are not communicating? If you don't address things and talk to each other about your feelings with honesty and are afraid to say your thoughts, fears and needs - what exactly are you both accomplishing?<P>H needs to look at what happened...he needs to face it and you both need to discover WHY IT HAPPENED!!!<P>How can that be done without talking about it? Not all at once perhaps but I don't think anything can be rebuilt until you get rid of the burnt shell debris before the fire of the affair...have to clear the lot before rebuilding the house again - if you know what I mean......<P>Have you and H thought in these terms? I think it would be beneficial...just being together does not a rebuilding make!!!!<P>Just some thoughts .......<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<BR>

Brynn...Sheba is one of my very favorites, but I do believe you can rebuild without hashing it out IF....<P>You do not take his position to be one of indiffernce or weakness.<P>He has a forgiving heart and has no hidden grudges<P>You take accountability for your own actions and seek to impact your relationship by changing yourself. Your H may not be easily in touch with his emotions and you may need to take the emotional lead in the relationship. He may be the stable one, the easier going and the more even tempered. Don't know, but that is the usual positive flip side of someone who appears unemotional. In marriage, if you take advantage of each others individual strengths and pick up the slack for weaknesses, you are way ahead.<P>He is open to change and growth and fully supports your efforts in the relationship.<P>You respect the gift your H is giving to you and honor your marriage each day with good decisions and absolutly NO CONTACT. Don't take his passivity as stupidity. Don't do whatever you think you can get away with. Honor your marriage. Respect yourself and your own integrity.<P>He puts 100% of whatever he does best into the marriage.<P>You do the same.<P>Although my H was the betrayer, he didn't want to talk about it. In fact he got a splitting headache every time we did. We haven't talked more than maybe 4 hours or so total in almost a year. He knew it was over. He knew he was remorseful. He knew I or our marriage had little to do with the affair. He knew he didn't even like or respect his OW in the end. He knew he wanted his family. For him, there was nothing to talk about. Eventually I believed him. Looking back, more talk would not have gotten us any further. <P>IT WAS COMMITMENT AND ACTIONS THAT REBUILT OUR MARRIAGE.<P>Hashing everything out and pinpointing cause and examining details would have been as difficult for my H as rebuilding an engine would be for me.<P>You figure out what you need to do to commit to your marriage and ensure faithfulness. Be honest with your H, but look within for answers instead of looking without.<P>You can make it and you can thrive!<P>It may be just too painful for your H right now and that's why he said never. He might feel he will lose emotional control and that scares him or he just might be plain bad at expressing himself. He may feel that you will try to blame him for the affair and heaping those coals on his head right now would be too much to handle. Give it some space and he may feel differently in time, especially when he sees you honoring your marriage and being trustworthy.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thank you FHL for explaining it so well....I am nowhere near that part yet and I just knew that it bothered me!!<P>You are very correct in the approach that you outline and Brynn (as well as everyone!!) would be very wise to follow it!!!<P>Talking is difficult for some...not necessarily all the time but maybe the timing and subject are the cause.<P>Whatever works to get some positive changes happening is what is required.<P>Good Luck Brynn....and Thanks again FHL!! I have to print this in case I may ever get to need it!!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba, my dear friend, I hope you will get to that point someday.<P>If anyone deserves an A for effort and a happy life of love, it is you. You have taught me more than you know.<P>Brynn, remember to listen to Sheba...she has the purest heart here.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I just need to tell you one thing from my experience in your same situation, Don’t let him act like nothing ever happened that is what my H did and as Dr. Harley said we never dealt with it so we never fixed anything, My H never said a word about it after I told him until almost six years later he said “I cant live with it or you any more” ignoring it wont make it go away. It will always be there just under the surface and you cant walk on eggshells all your life hoping you don’t say some thing to set it off in his mind.<BR>I hope all works out for you take care and God Bless<BR>Lesa<BR><P>------------------<BR>maybe someday<P>

Thank you FHL - my dear Mentor!!<P>See you never stop teaching me!!<P>Is that "purest heart" or "hardest Head"?<P>LOL!!!<P>Love ya and Hugs,<P>Sheba<p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited January 05, 2000).]

In a nutshell, there is a difference between denying or ignoring the affair and doing nothing and letting your commitment and your actions do the talking.<P>Know the difference. Know the reason why he does not want to talk about it.<P>Take action yourself and I bet he will follow your lead.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

1. When a marriage is rebuilding and trying to heal, is the affair ALWAYS in the back of your mind?<P>Yes - fear it will happen again, but it doesn't surface all the time.<P>2. Do things people say or movies in general that have any sort of infidelity in them 'trigger' thoughts? <P>Yes. Lots of triggers. Like if there is a blonde on TV with big busts, and my husband is watching too intently - "Trigger".... Red cars.... "Triggers". Etc. etc. etc.<P>3. If you don't know full details of the single sexual encounter (my H didn't want details), do you try and visual what happened? <P>NO. <P>4. Is the infidelity thought about every day?<P>Yes.<P>5. Do you always 'wonder' every time your spouse who betrayed you talks to or about someone of the opposit sex?<P>Yes.<P>