Just got off the phone with H again. I had missed his call, but this time he left his number so I called him back, just in case it was an emergency. Normally, I don't return his calls.<P>He started again by telling me he missed me. He sounded lonely. He said, "What do you think about getting a Sheltie?" We lost our beloved Schnauzer last year, in a horrifying way which I won't go into. Just another of the many losses last year. I didn't really answer, except to say, "Gee, I hadn't really thought about it. We might want to run that one by Dusty (our cat)."<P>He wanted to know how I was doing, is everything okay at the house, is my car running okay, am I eating enough, etc, etc. I told him I am doing fine, & talked about some of the things I have been doing lately.<P>I asked him if he had thought about getting some counseling. He said he hadn't. That he was feeling a lot better. That having the job has really helped him. I asked what he did for New Years. He replied, "Worked".<P>He mentioned moving out of state again. I said that we'd have to talk about it.<P>He said he had just gotten off the phone with MCI to get long distance hooked up. When he had originally started the telephone service, he didn't choose a long distance provider. I have the feeling that he didn't plan on calling me back then.<P>He ended the conversation by telling me he loves me, again. <P>No mention of OW, & of course I didn't ask!<P>I am so confused!!! What should I be doing here?? He's going to be coming up again in a couple of weeks. I need to figure out what I am going to do and say. On one hand, the doctor is telling me I shouldn't be having ANY contact with him until he agrees to get some help. But, on the other, he seems to be coming around. AARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!

Oh Sidney, <BR>I lost my beloved schanuzer in August...H did come and bury her for me....amazing how they just wrap themselves around your heart...with everything going on at the time, I had a very difficult time getting over it. <BR>Sounds like H is finally coming around...take it slow, watch and see if the affair is truly over. Remember, no reconciliation can happen unless that takes place, no matter how much we want it. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Sounds to me like he honestly loves you. I know that I have never been one to take someone else's advice over the advice from my heart, but I think that your counselor is right. Stick to the plan and I wish you the best.<P>P.S.--It never hurts to say "I Love You". At least you can let your H know where your heart is.<P>------------------<BR>"Love isn't someplace that we fall, it's something that we do"--Clint Black<BR>

sidney,<P>Do stay <B>tough</B> on Plan B...<BR>It's hard... <P>I'm not saying don't talk to him about important issues... (him getting counseling)... but all of the other chit-chat is letting him weaken your resolve.<P>Plan B is a <B>no contact</B> plan...<BR>I know you didn't want to hear/read it...<BR>I sense your pain... and I didn't want to say/write it... <P>But the plans work best if you keep to their true intent, and methodolgy!<P>Post more often when having problems...<BR>That's why we're here!<P>A for a tough time in Plan B.<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited January 06, 2000).]

Hi Sue,<P>I'm so sorry to hear about your schnauzer. Ours was a Giant Schnauzer. She was nearly 15 years old and one of the family. I know what you mean about it being hard. This happened a month or so after discovery. The worst possible time. I was so glad to see 99 end. It was the worst year of my life, so far.<P>Yes, the signs seem to be there that he is coming around. But, I have yet to hear the words I am waiting for. I know that it has to be completely ended, before we can even begin to recover. But, H is a master at 'beating around the bush'. I'm just not sure how to interpret his desire to move. It could be that it's his way of saying he has to leave the area to go through withdrawal. Or, the only way OW is going to relinguish her grasp. I have the feeling that she is VERY needy. Remember Fatal Attraction? Kinda like that.<P>Hi HBT,<P>Yes, I agree with you. I have to stay on course. The bond between H, and me has always been a strong one. Perhaps too strong? I sometimes felt we relied on each other too much. H has told me he intends to honor his lease which means no decisions would need to be made until June. Meanwhile, I need to figure out what I'm going to do. Thanks for responding.<P>Hi Bill,<P>The trouble is I don't know what Plan I'm in!! I never sent him the official Plan B letter. Since he moved out, I have backed off. I don't call him, I don't send him anything unless it's important things that need to be sent (like insurance cards), & I've basically been building a life without him.<P>I have not made it easy for him to reach me. He usually has to call many times before he reaches me. When I do talk to him, I have been very cordial, ask him how he is, how the new job is going, answer any questions he has, and that's pretty much it. Basically, the message is that I'm doing fine and moving on with my life.<P>He desperately needs to get into counseling. He is feeling better now because he's filled the "void" with the new job. Like the doctor said, if he doesn't deal with the wounds inside, he will most likely do this again. <P>I don't feel like I am in a position to force the issue. He is testing the waters right now, so to speak. Like you said before, this is such a narrow path. Yet, I feel like his recovery hinges on what I do and how I react.<BR>I really think that the main reason he left was because I was pushing him in the direction of getting help to resolve some of his deep seated, & long standing problems. I think this terrified him. <P>I have been thinking about writing him a letter. Not a Plan B letter. But, one that makes clear what my expectations are before I will consider a reconcilliation. It will no doubt take me a very long time to write as I have to word it very carefully.<P>Thanks for listening, and being there. I will be thinking of you on Friday. <P>

Hi Sidney,<P>I guess that if I was in your place I would really take some time out and think about what I want. Yes you have till June to make plans but do you really want to live life up in the air till then? I mean he is still stringing you along.<P>Again I am just saying what I would do. I guess I would really sit down and decide what I wanted. Then I would decide what I could and could not live with. Then when your H comes up for a visit sit down and tell him point blank we have to talk. Because believe it or not June will be here before you know it. I would ask the hard questions such as what about the OW. I would also inform him that he better not lie because lies sonner or later to come to light and it will just push the recover back to ground zero or cause a final seperation. Make a shopping list of what you want to see. We are worth more that the treatment we get from these betrayers.<P>That is what I would do I guess I would say this is what I need and place the ball in his court. Again this is just me. Really think about what you want. You do have time to really think and come up with a plan. Second I would listen to the Doctor. Your H might be leaning on you to get some of his emotional needs met.<BR>

sidney,<P>Another point of view for you to consider. Your H is calling you. He is talking about you two moving out of state. he is interested in what you are doing. he tells you he misses you nad loves you. He is getting a long distance service so he can call you up. OK, girl, the SIGNS are EVERYWHERE here!!! <P>When he comes in a couple weeks to see you, it is time for the sit down face-to-face talk. Ask a couple questions that get him talking and see what he has to say. He might be ready to discuss things rationally. But, as others advised, I would make sure counseling is a part of any reconciliation deal. <P>He is definitley softening and needs to know what it will take form him to be your H again.<P>This is PROMISING! <P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Sidney,<P>A thought just popped into my head. The next time he asked about moving out of state tell him it would depend on a few things. BUt don't say anymore then that until he asked what things. Then give him your conditions 1. no contact with OW, 2, get help counseling, and 3 what ever else you feel needs to be done. This would be a way to let him know you are interested, you have conditions and there would be no love busting. You might think about it.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Oh, Diana, that was good!!! I am taking notes! <P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Hi, Sidney. I must have missed a post or so during my break, but did you really go into Plan B?<P>If so, Jim's right. No contact means no contact.<P>If not, then your Plan A seems to be starting to work, go with your intuition.<P>Desiree and Di make some very good points. You'll know what to do. Take it as it comes.<P>Lots of hugs,<P>Lori

Just for clarification: Separation does not equal Plan B. I have been separated and in Plan A for the last year (plus some). NSR is separated and in Plan A. Chris is separated and in Plan A. I'm sure there are others and don't mean to leave anyone out, but these are some of the more prominent examples.<P>NSR's most recent advice from Steve Harley was to do the most perfect Plan A you can for as long as you can. I have to tell you it is FAR easier to do Plan A when the spouse is NOT living with you and you are not having your "nose rubbed" in the affair on a daily basis! Before separation, I didn't sleep at night without a sleep aid. I could only sleep fitfully and every car that drove by woke me up (since my bedroom is on the Main street side of a fairly busy village, that was QUITE frequently). When he finally moved out, I cried ... but then, for the first time in weeks, I slept the whole night - because I wasn't "waiting up" for him.<P>I only bring this up because I think that Sidney needs to keep up the Plan A behavior for as long as she can. And, I think that (personal opinion only - not based on any studies or proven facts) a severely depressed person WILL NOT come around due to Plan B. I would put my money on a depressed individual saying to himself, "Of course, I'm not worth it." And that person would believe he was doing his spouse a FAVOR by never coming back.<P>Stay in Plan A, Sidney - for as long as you can. Your husband needs to know that your marriage is the safest and most comforting place in the universe. You don't have to "invite" him back - Nor do you have to treat him with kid gloves. I think if you are kind, matter-of-fact and honest without being cruel, he will begin to come around some more. Of course (as K would say), this advice is free, so take it for what it's worth! <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

Hi Paha,<BR>Thanks for saying what I already know. I need to hear it often. Because, every time I start to go there- I say to myself, "Self you need to start thinking about the terms necessary for reconcilliation", I come to a screeching halt. It's like standing on the springboard of the highdive, looking down at the water, but I can't jump. It's probably a defense mechanism on my part. But, it is very frustrating.<P>Hi Desiree,<BR>Yes, the signs appear to be more, and more positive. We have been separated for one month now. And, the interesting thing is that we are coming up on Jan10 which is the 6 month marker for discovery. I seem to remember Harley saying that 'most' affairs fizzle after about six months post discovery. Anyway, the ball appears to be in my court now. And, that's terrifying as h*ll. He's going to be up here in two weeks, and I need to prepare for the "talk". I'm going to need all the help I can get! Thank you for being there for me. I might be leaning on you more than ever in the next two weeks!!<P>Hi Diana,<BR>Thank you! That's an excellent idea!! Now, I'll be ready the next time he brings it up. And, he's been mentioning it every time he calls now. <P>Hi Lori,<BR>No, I never wrote the 'official' Plan B letter. After hearing about Desiree, & Bill's sessions with Harley, I decided to stay in Plan A for awhile. So, now I seem to be getting some payoff, but I'm suffering from a mental block when I try to think about "what next". My 'intuition' as you say is normally right on for me. But, at the moment, it seems to be locked away. Thank you for being supportive. I will be needing you guys more than ever during the next two weeks.<P>Hi Terri,<BR>Wow! Thank you so much for clarifying this for me. Sometimes, I get SO confused. Yes, I am still in Plan A. Or, what I refer to as "Plan Aloof". I completely, & totally backed off, & gave H the space he seemed to be asking for. And, yes, I was very reluctant to advance to Plan B because I knew how depressed my H was. Now, he seems to be testing the waters by dropping hints about us getting back together. He is a master at 'beating around the bush', which makes it hard sometimes to understand his intent. So, now, I need to begin focusing on MY expectations before I will consider a reconcilliation. I remember Harley writing something about making the mistake of taking them back without an agreement to resolve the problem(s) that led to the affair in the first place.<P>Thanks so much, all of you guys. I'm going to really need all of your help and support during the next two weeks, as I try to pin down my expectations. <BR>

Chin Up Sidney <P>I don't think things are quite as grim as they may seem. I may be wrong but I base this on my own situation. You see I went through the EXACT same thing. I didn't understand either then but I do now.<P>Things were souring between my H and the OW then and he was starting to see reality and miss us alot. The OW started to pressuer more and more making him very uncomfortable. He felt as though every aspect of his life was hopeless and he too wanted to disappear for awhile.<P>My advice to you... back off, don't advise and try extra hard to make things comfortable for him... you need to provide a safe place for him to hide from her so to speak. <P>Your H probally needs you to listen and sympathize with him a little right now but in a quiet way. Any opinions you have will be leturing or criticism to him right now because of his own state of mind.<P>I wish you lots of luck and I hope that this is the beginning of something good for you.<P>Genie

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Sidney, <BR>I have a giant as well!! Fritz is his name, he is 9 now and misses his little buddy a lot, but I am not at the point I want another dog. <BR>You are getting the best in advice from those who are living plan A to their best. I agree you ahould stay in it as long as you can, he appears to be waffling some. <BR>Take care, if you want to talk schnauzers, email me at arabrider@msn.com!! I love schnauzers!<P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

I feel I am in a similar situation here.My husband is having an affair with a woman who lives overseas(I discovered 3 months ago)..How do I implement a successful plan A when I too, have my nose rubbed in the affair each time my husband goes and returns from"business trips"?He has told me he is not prepared to let go of her yet,while he still wants to remain with me.

I feel I am in a similar situation here.My husband is having an affair with a woman who lives overseas(I discovered 3 months ago)..How do I implement a successful plan A when I too, have my nose rubbed in the affair each time my husband goes and returns from"business trips"?He has told me he is not prepared to let go of her yet,while he still wants to remain with me.

I feel I am in a similar situation here.My husband is having an affair with a woman who lives overseas(I discovered 3 months ago)..How do I implement a successful plan A when I too, have my nose rubbed in the affair each time my husband goes and returns from"business trips"?He has told me he is not prepared to let go of her yet,while he still wants to remain with me.

I feel I am in a similar situation here.My husband is having an affair with a woman who lives overseas(I discovered 3 months ago)..How do I implement a successful plan A when I too, have my nose rubbed in the affair each time my husband goes and returns from"business trips"?He has told me he is not prepared to let go of her yet,while he still wants to remain with me.