Hey all --<P>I'm back from a self impossed break from the MB site for the holidays. It's been VERY up and down, and currently things aren't looking great. Still in active Plan A, but for a variety of reasons, things still just aren't looking very promising.<P>So, here's the question:<P>My W (betrayer -- although she continues to deny an EA) tells me she doesn't trust me (betrayed). She claims that she cannot trust me since I confronted the OM, that I've admitted to phoning it in the last few years, etc. I gather she's taking this position since she's not wanting to get hurt be committing to me in the future, but I'm not sure.<P>Shouldn't I be the one that's having problems trusting her? She betrayed me!<P>I am having problems in this area (trust), but I'm trying to find what 15 years of our marriage was based around. On the otherhand, she does not seem to want to find it. She almost wants it to land in her lap!<P>(Trying to keep my...) chin up!<P>--keystone<p>[This message has been edited by keystone (edited January 06, 2000).]

Keystone,<P>Based on the time you've been here, your frustration level, and your perceived lack of progress, I'd recommend that you do some counseling with Steve Harley, to get back on track with plan A.<P>Your wife doesn't trust you---that's valuable information. You need to figure out why (you're well on your way there), and then come up with a plan (preferrably together) to fix this. You need to eliminate lovebusters, and start meeting the needs that she will allow you to, in the way that she WANTS them to be met.<P>The best way to get this information is by the direct route. But however you gather this info, it's most important that you exhibit a very consistant track record of new behaviors that support those goals, and help your wife trust you (and build her love for you).<P>And...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Shouldn't I be the one that's having problems trusting her? She betrayed me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course you shouldn't trust her. But in not trusting her, how are you going to treat her??? She's resenting the demands that you're putting on her (by trying to use the POJA)---of course those friendships are detremental to your marriage---but your wife isn't very "in love" with you now. And if you lecture to her and get in her face about them, it's going to cause her to lose love for you, not gain it.<P>I'd really suggest Steve Harley as a counselor---Steve will be able to help you with a good game plan, and he'd probably be able to get your wife involved with giving "feedback" on how this is going. That WILL work effectively to build her love for you. It'll start slowly at first, but snowball as you become better with consistancy.<BR>

K --<P>Thanks for the response. <P>I agree that direct feedback is all so valuable toward gauging the success of any changes that I make. My W however, doesn't seem to give me much. When I ask -- which I've done on multiple occassions and in counseling, she just rolls her eyes. She doesn't want to say, point blank, how I am doing, if I need to try harder in an area, if I'm meeting or not meeting her needs, etc. She says that I am the one who is putting too much pressure on the situation. <P>I just don't think that I can meet her needs if I can't get any feedback. I don't trust my own instints like I used to since we've grown so far apart.<P>We've stopped counseling since we didn;t think it was going anywhere. I've suggested that we might seek out another counseler, but she doesn't seem interested. If I consult with Harley, I know that I'll be at it alone. I've read some of his books and my W refuses to read them. She has also refused to fill out the EN questionaire. There's no better way to get some feedback than that, yet she refuses. I don't know if I ready to continue rebuilding alone anymore.<P>I believe my W doesn't trust me for a number of reasons including her preception that I've been phoning it in for some time (not off base -- I acknowledged it before she did), for confronting her other sex friend as being the source of an EA (which she strongly denies), etc. But, it is a two way street and we've both been neglectful of our marriage, each in our own ways. And, until that trust returns, I know that she cannot love me.<P>How do I rebuild my trust in her, not tend to be judgemental, and allow for her to regain her trust in me?

keystone,<P>Start the counseling with Steve Harley, alone, and ask him that question. You'll get more focused advice for your situation that I can give you.<P>He'll be able to evaluate your efforts in Plan A to date, help you refine them so that they're more effective, and possibly help "suck" your wife into some counseling with him---at first as a "feedback source" for your efforts.

Just wanted you to know that my H said the same thing to me. He was the betrayer. In fact he told me the reason he wanted a D is because he couldn't trust me anymore and that I cry too much. I asked him on several occasions what he meant by not trusting me. He only answered a few....here goes<BR>1. I told his mother about affair<BR>2. I talked with one of his co-workers about it<BR>3. I snooped too much<BR>4. I wouldn't accept what he said as the truth.<BR>5. That he wanted his life with me to be private and I wasn't keeping it that way because I was going to counseling and group therapy and they all knew.<P><BR>I am sure he said more...but can't remember them all....some started to get really wacky so I chose to just stop listening to them all.<P>Just remember that they have a knack of finding anything they can to blame on you just to justify their affair. It is themselves they can't trust.<BR>Nancy<BR>

Mental...<P>Of the items you listed, #1, #2, and #3 are all lovebusters---thoughtless behaviors that you had no "right" to do. #4 you should have been able to work on, and he has a perfectly legitimate point on #5 and group therapy.<P>Don't lose sight of the fact that you should be continually striving to see your marriage through your spouse's eyes. You need to address all those points together (with the POJA) in a way that builds love and trust. Otherwise, you'll be stuck in an unhappy marriage.<P>Same goes for you, keystone. If you think you're judgemental, then stop. I was famous for it, and I've done an excellent job cutting back... maybe I could sell a "patch"...