well, how's that for a title to my life??<P>Hello fellow hurt people...<P>Here is the only place I feel I can vent without getting alot of static! I am in knee deep with the whole divorce process. My logic and common sense (yeah, sometimes I still have them) tell me this is what I agreed to. What was best for me, my H, the kids. But it is so very hard. I cry every night. I look in the mirror and just hate the woman who's reflection I see.<P>Last I wrote I was really angry because I saw my H coming from a jewerly store and made the assumption he had bought Mia something. Well, I was wrong. Again. I immediately jumped to the conclusion that all his intentions are for "her". He actually had bought our daughter a charm bracelet and had it engraved. What an idiot I feel like.<P>Okay, now to the "stalking" stuff. Not something I'm very proud of, and not the first time I've done something vengeful towards Mia, but I can't help it. I went to my H's work yesterday, (without his knowledge) and used the excuse that I needed to go to the credit union on the site. (yes, it was an excuse) I know Mia works there too, but not which building. So, I proceeded to find a phone where there was a company directory and found her name, and her building location and extension. I called the extension. She answered the phone and I hung up. Then I walked to the general vicinity of her building and just "hung out" hoping to catch a glimpse of her. Well, I got what I wanted. She was with some other people walking right in front of where I was sitting. I got a good look at her. It made me sick. I actually can see why my H is so attracted to her. But you know what? Doing this only hurt me more. <P>Why can't I just stop this crazy behavior? It actually scares me that I'm doing this to her. What exactly did my trip to their place of work do for me? Absolutely NOTHING.<P>Thanks for letting me get this off my chest! Divorce is a truly horrible thing to go through. Especially after 16 years of marriage.

Hi TL,<P>I rarely post anymore, but I saw your name and had to drop by your thread...<P>Oh honey, I KNOW how it feels to be motivated to that which you KNOW is the WRONG THING TO DO. I was a stalker myself 12 yrs. ago, parking in front of OW's house with my three little babies in a Pinto (now there's a picture )! I scared the living [censored] out of Miss Kara, and it was the worst and most embarrassing thing I have ever done.<P>But when you look in that mirror and hate the woman you see, you know that you've come pretty low, huh hun?? How can we stop that horrible cycle. Sweetie, I know you know this already, but there's only ONE WAY...<P><B>STOP</B><P>You said you can't help it... honey, you can!!! <B>YOU CAN</B>... and to save your psyche and your soul (although we both know that the real soul saving is done by God ) you <B>MUST</B>.<P>No judgement here, TL... just a hug, and love, and a gentle push toward what you know to be right and true.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

TL,<P>hugs to you. I know what divorce feels like. It isn't any fun, and you do look at yourself in the mirror and question everything and every thought that comes in your mind. You have been betrayed by the one you loved the most. I think everything you are feeling is unfortunately normal and real. I never want to go through that again.<P>It isn't an easy mend. I think you go through the pain of recovery even if you get divorced. It is inevitable. You can go through it trying to have a marriage restored, and it is painful or you can go through it, though trying to dissolve the marriage. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you choose, you go through it.<P>That is the pits. Not fair. Crummy. And Mia, she doesn't even have a clue. She wanted to believe that she did, but she didn't. I think about her everytime I see your name on the board, and I feel so bad because I was one of the first to embrace her when she came on the board. I wasn't thinking. All I could think about was, that there was this OW who is coming to her senses.<P>I am so sorry your husband and you weren't able to go through this pain as you restored your marriage, instead of this marriage ending and leaving you to deal with what they caused alone.<P>But you aren't alone, TL. We are here, and we understand. We really understand, and care and feel for you.<P>hugs to you,<BR>tnt

TL,<P>Like Sheryl, I rarely post... but your story grabs me every time. I ache for you and your husband and Mia. All three of you! So tragic.<P>TL, do you have a psychiatrist? Not just a councellor, but a doctor? Are you on any sort of anti-depression meds? I ask because I don't remember exactly. If not, then please make an appointment. You realize that what you are doing is wrong, which is the first step. But I think you may need help to stop the obsessive cycle you are in. If you already have a dr. then forgive my presumption!<P>In the meantime, I have an idea. Next time you have the urge to stalk Mia, post here first. We'll all jump in and keep you from doing it.<P>--andy

Ok Ok, so list me among the semi retired poster who had to talk to you, remembering when you first came her and what all happened later.<P>Oh TiredLady, you have been through so much<BR>it's no wonder you jumped to the wrong conclusion, and that you wanted to get a good look at Mia. OK, you did that, now it's time to stop and think, not about her, not about h.<P>But about you and your children. We have all been at the point where we hated our selves<BR>for the things we have said/done/thought during these times.<P>You have to remember that your children need you, and you need to be able to walk with your head held high.<P>Your marriage may not have been perfect, but you stayed, you tried. You did NOT force h to make the decisions he has made.<P>Please TL, let God comfort you, he loves you and He has never betrayed anyone. Nor will He . Holdon to him, and start posting , you need support now more than ever.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{TL}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

I have been wondering and worried about you, TL. I am soooo sorry it doesn't seem to be getting better for you.<P>But, you've got work to do now, ya know? You CAN stop. You are the only one with the power to do so. You've been hurt enough now. There's no need to hurt yourself anymore. Not now, not ever.<P>NB said it. Just stop. When you get like that, use every bit of strength you have and stop. <P>I know it hurts. But it's time. Doctor's a good idea. Things have been out of control for you for such a long time. Take control now. It's your turn. Of you and your life. <P>And we still care so much. So, like AH said, we're here and we'll help. You still belong here with us for as long as you need us.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{TL}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Lori

I don't think you're crazy at all...hopefully this is just a short phase for you that will pass.<P>When my sister found out her husband was having an affair she found out where the OW lived and called me at 1:00am to go driving around trying to find her house...we drove around for 3 hours trying to find this womans house with no luck. Then the next day my sister left work to search some more and finally found it. She would stay at my house because it was closer to the OWs house and drive by to see if her husbands car was there...she found his car there one day and left their wedding picture on her doorstep after ringing the doorbell.<P>I had seen this OW so my sister would ask me what she looked like...she was definately obsessed!<P>Now, I consider my sister a pretty sane person...but infidelity can make you do crazy things. She ended up going on Prozac and Valium and kept really busy to keep her mind off of the revenge she wanted to seek.<P>A year later...the BITTER divorce is final and my sister has a new boyfriend and a new life...and is happier than ever. Her ex-husband lives with his mom!!<P>It's going to be difficult to control your urges...but, try to find a friend or family member to occupy your time with. My sister stayed with my for a while when she was at her worst...first, she didn't want to stay at "their" house and second, she needed a friend to keep her busy.<BR>

Hi Tired Lady,<P>Hang in there one day you will wake up and find out you like yourself again. I would not call sitting in a chair to see what the OW looks like stalking. I mean it is just part of the process. You did not go up to her or say anything to her you just looked at her. <P>And if you really think Mia has it good well she does not. Trust me. Everyone in the office probably knows that your H left you for her. They will talk about her behind her back and I am sure the work slut is used a fair amount. Does not matter how nice she is as a person. I see it all the time at all the places I worked. Trust me she has to live with the fact that she helped ruin a marriage. (Just a note for the friends of mia on this board do not rationalize her actions to me!) I found it very distastfull what she did to Tired Lady here on the board. <P>As for you Tired. It is hard...trust me I know. The first guy who cheated on me the break up was very painfull. He cheated with my best friend. It took me over a year just to get back to some semblance of my old self. Then another year just before I could trust someone. Turns out the person I felt I could trust cheated on me too. It sucks cannal water. And it is not fair. But do stuff just for your self. Go to a spa and get a message and facial. Then start dressing nice. Second try and do things that take your mind off the divorce and your stbx/Mia. Be selfish for a change. Just take it one day at a time.

Hi everyone,<P>I just read your responses. I'm surprised that I can take those out of semi-retirement just to reply to me. Thank you for your kind thoughts and words.<P>You should all know that I have not been a kind person, nor nice to the OW. This latest incident is just a "mere" example of one of the more mild things I have done to her. At one time, I actually called the phone company and pretended to be her and had her phone service turned off (I told the phone company I (mia) was moving and no longer needed a phone) You can imagine the major "lovebuster" that was. That was before H had moved out. I don't particularly care too much about her or her wellbeing as I have said before, but she has a young son who I could have potentially put at jeopardy if something would have happened to him and she had needed 911 help. And yet even knowing this, I didn't care. I still dont.<P>Andy - I have not seen a psychiatrist. I don't want to take drugs. I don't think I'm crazy. I'm just extremely hurt and angry and I guess it will take me a very long time to "get over it." The counselor I was seeing told me she could not help me anymore and suggested I see a psychiatrist, but I'm not at that place yet where I want to help myself. Sounds awful, but true.<P>Sheryl - As always, I am comforted by your words. I wish I was a better person than I am right now. It's all I can do to keep my kids and myself in line. I do thank my H for his constant/continuous involvement in their lives.<P>

TL, I'm going to be tough, so if you don't want to hear it, stop reading.<P>B<BR>R<BR>E<BR>A<BR>T<BR>H<BR>I<BR>N<BR>G<P><BR>R<BR>O<BR>O<BR>M<P>Listen, honey, get off the pity party. Yes, your H should not have had an affair. But by taking the stance of unforgiveness that you did, when you HAD a chance to try to repair your marriage, you pretty much sealed your fate.<P>A few days ago I started a thread called "Being right as the booby prize". I had you in mind when I posted it. It's a concept from Susan Page's book HOW ONE OF YOU CAN BRING BOTH OF YOU TOGETHER, a book that I think might have helped you; a book that I still think you should read because it might help you in the future.<P>My understanding of your situation is that Mia had broken off with your H, and that he was back home and going through withdrawal. I understand that this was very stressful and hard for you, and perhaps you didn't have the whatever to weather it. I don't judge you for that. Everyone's different.<P>But things are as they are, and now what you have to do is work on putting YOU back together. Stalking Mia won't help. Stalking your H won't help. Wallowing in anger won't help. You owe it to yourself and your children to do something about it. Your anger keeps you powerless. Moving to get on with your life empowers you. <P>You refuse to get help. You refuse to move on. Why? What does this do for you? Do you think for one minute that staying angry and bitter is going to enrich your life one iota? Is it going to change the past? Is it going to change what happened to your marriage? No.<P>And I'm not trying to get you to beat on yourself, because this is part of your problem right now. You have to forgive YOURSELF, and move on. Get therapy. Get anti-depressants. Do something positive for you and your children. Move to another town if you have to.<P>Holding on to the pain and the bitterness accomplishes NOTHING.

Dear Tired Lady,<P>I think what you are doing is pretty normal but hurts you. My therapist said that "obsession blocks pain". Now, I have often thought about that and wondered exactly what that means but I guess it has to do with doing something that you think will make you feel better but it doesn't. I think my therapist also meant that you might as well just feel the pain.....ugh......but in order to avoid it or in an attempt not to feel the pain, we do something obsessive. <P>Seeing this OW does not make you feel better. It is like what Professor Lector says to Clarice in "the Silence of the Lambs". Clarice wants a profile of the killer and Lector gives her a hint. He asks her "What do we envy?" (or something to that affect) and the answer is "The things we see every day." In other words, out-of-sight-out-of-mind, but if we expose ourselves to certain things every day that we envy or hate or whatever, it will drive us CRAZY as it drove the killer in the movie to kill people for their skin.

TL -- If I had known who the OW was, I would have been a stalker. I was very obsessive and determined to find out everything. Therapy can help you with this, as well as an antidepressant. Paxil is designed to help curb obsessiveness. Please reconsider and get yourself some help. You sound like you are about to the edge. Your kids need you to be together. You could also get into some legal entanglements if you're not careful.

TL, <BR>Been there and sort of done that. A few days after I found out about my H affair, I had to see what this "beauty" looked like. Parked in parking lot and saw her come out. It broke my heart. From afar, she was simply gorgeous. Well I never went back again. It hurt to bad. Then when I finally saw her in court...YUK. She was nothing to write home about. I agree with above posts. Don't go see her again. I was feeling somewhat obsessed, just like you, but I knew that the pain it would cause me just wasn't worth it. I even envisioned that if I saw my H with her that it would help me feel better....make me not want him. Well one day, completey by accident I did see them together...it didn't make me hate him or make me feel better...it hurt bigtime. I stay away from anywhere she might be. "Her" side of town. I hardly ever feel the urge to go by her work....but when I do....I just turn the radio up real loud and change the words to what ever song is on the radio and laugh about it all. You see, I know that if they end up together that they will be looking over each others shoulders to see if the other is cheating on them. She has done it in two marriages and him in one. Not a great track record. I know you hate to hear it....because I always did...but keep busy. Try to find things to do at the times when you would be likely to see her. The urges do go away. I was on anti-deps....but I never saw a difference in me when those urges came. I have not taken any in about 2-3 months and I feel terrific. As warped as it may sound...just find something about him and her to laugh about. Hold your head high...you did nothing wrong. After holding your head high for a while you will forget about it and realize that the reason you feel so good is because you are a good person and caring and loving. It will work out for you. I know, I don't want a D either...but I have no choice. It is frustrating....but I have no choice. Even though we did nothing, we still have to live with the decision he made....but we don't have to live "by" it.<BR>Nancy

TL...My heart goes out to you. I remember your story well, and I remember when Mia was posting on this board...It really pissed me off. I don't have any sympathy for her. She should have posted on TOW Board 'cause that's what she is and STILL chose to be. No need to flaunt her trashy self here.<P>Oh boy...I'm going off on a tangent now! Sorry about that.<P>Just want you to know that I'm here for you. But, I want you to start doing something special for yourself for a change. You've been so giving, that I think you have neglected yourself. You are important and loved. Buy yourself something nice at the store, light some candles and take a warm bubble bath, go visit some friends or family for light conversation, go out for a nice dinner and movie....just anything that will be just for you!<P>You need to start living for yourself. Time will heal your wounds (that's what they say). You will eventually feel better about yourself and grow stronger from this. Hugs & prayers, my friend.<P>

Dazed & Confused is right about Mia stopping the affair and my H staying home. I drove him crazy with all my obsessive cr*p. I didn't want to move towards "fixing" things. I did have my chance. Even long before the affair it was my H, not me, that saw problems and would repeatedly ask me to go to counseling with him. But I refused. Didn't think things were so bad. Even when he finally convinced me to go to couples counseling where he told me about the affair, I still remained that I didn't do ANYTHING to cause him to stray. Everything was his fault, not mine. So, for all of you who continue to say that I've been through alot, I'm going to step up to the plate here and tell everyone here that I'm not the only one who suffered during our marriage. My H continuously begged me to seek help and I turned the blind eye. <P>All of you posting how horrible Mia is and how she's the sl*t, and how their co workers will talk about her are sooo very wrong. See, all the co-workers also know about how she did stop seeing H. And she did stay away. They also know how much H wanted to save our marriage and I did nothing to move towards this. My situation in this triangle is indeed, as Airheart said, very sad. Mia is not the trashy person you all would like to envision the OW to be. I'm surprised that I can say that.

TL...I hope you are not blaming yourself entirely. Sure, you may have had a slow start at working on your marriage...but I bet there are lots of us out there, who didn't realize how bad are marriages were until an affair came out of it. We also didn't have the tools such as Harley's principles and Marriage Builders to work on our marriages properly.<P>Your H was in withdrawal, but so were you. Your emotions were just as raw, probably even more. It's hard to Plan A when you've been hurt so badly, and also with the knowledge that your H is in love with this OW.<P>I bet that if this OW weren't around, you & your H would still be working on repairing your marriage. The way I see it, was that he didn't work hard enough or stay committed long enough to get through this with you. He gave up and went back to her. He never did get over her or over his withdrawal of her. So, I don't see this as really fair to your marriage.<P>Please don't blame yourself. You only did what you could handle at the time.<P>As far as what other people think at her work....who gives a damn what they think anyway? I know that if I knew what had happenned, and I worked there, I would STILL see Mia as the catalyst that ended your marriage.<P>Please work on moving forward. You have so much to offer. Please do something for yourself. Time will heal your wounds. Hugs...<P><p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited January 07, 2000).]

Hi Tired Lady,<P>I have never called Mia a slut. I said and I am sure it has happend that co-workers behind her back have called her that. No one is praised by all. I can bet that Mia is not liked by everyone. People in the orgainazation that do not care for you H and Mia will use it to their advantage. Trust me I worked and currently work for organizations that have had and have ongoing affairs. I know what I am talking about. Also if your H and Mia think that they will have a wonderful life together sonner or later she will wonder if he does the same thing to her. Seen that in real life too. A friend of the family had an affair left his wife for her and now she is a basket case. She has zero trust in her H. Why becuase she was the OW she knows better than anyone what he is capable of. Point blank.<P>I also did not really care to have someone defend Mia because I thought it to be very insensative for her to come here and invade your space to get your head on straight. <P>I can see you never got over and harboured a great deal of anger. Understandable. I have done the same thing. I also see that you always stand up and say the truth even when you do not look good. I find that a wonderful quality. Also just my insight from not knowing the full truth but I really wonder if the affair was over. How would Mia know you posted here unless your H told her. Now you probably did not start posting here till after you found out and he probably agreed to stop speaking to her and working on the marriage. Now for Mia to know your H was talking to her after he said he was not. Hence, still in contact. Again tell me if I am wrong in my assesment. That is why I have no real afection for Mia has nothing to do with her being the OW. It has to do with the fact of the way she tried to invade your space and make herself look better.<P>Again I am not trying to offend you. I can understand full well being stuck in the anger cycle. I moved to a city and started Graduate work when I found out about the guy I was going to marry before Tony cheating on me with a so called good friend. Guess what I never made any friends that year. I spent it all alone. Why? Because I was so full of anger and in so much pain I just could not find my normal nice self. I know first hand how anger can consume one self. Try for your own sake and no one elses to let that the anger go. I was hoping to point out that even though you think they have all sunshine and roses they do not. Nothing else.

Pahakissa - Yes, my H did tell Mia about my posting here prior to her terminating the affair. When he disclosed the affair at the shrinks office, it was still ongoing. The counselor told him in order to work on us he needed to stop contact. I know he didn't. It really was her that left the relationship. I know because he told me and was "broken hearted" about it.<P>I am not taking the blame for his decision to have an affair. But I will say that I know I contributed to that "environment" that Harley speaks of that allowed the the affair to start in the first place.<P>No Trust: How does knowing your marriage was on the downhill and both people were miserable for 13 of 16 years sound? Truly, that's how long I've been hearing H ask me to please see a counselor. <P>Sheba here knows practically everything during the couse of this marriage. She tried to help me with a letter to H once, but even with her help, it was too much too late. I do appreciate all your responses. Really.

Sorry, double post.<p>[This message has been edited by Tired Lady (edited January 07, 2000).]

TL....my heart really goes out to you. It's time to move forward and heal yourself. Hugs and prayers....