I thought my marriage was good but did need some improvement in reaching a deeper intimacy level. My H and I talked about it a few times--discussed seeing someone professionally--but nothing came of it until I inadvertently saw an e-mail message from a woman regarding their meeting in person for the first time at a national meeting in four months. They met originally on a listserv. This really forced the issue. We talked about it and ended up purchasing Dr. Harley's book "Give & Take." We have been discussing at great lengths the concepts in the book and have seen a great improvement in our relationship. In our discussion about the situation, however, he stated that he believes men and women can be friends without it becoming an affair. And that he has no interest in having an affair with all its complications. He also said that he would never get involved in this way again because of the pain it caused me. He is not willing to precipitously terminate the "friendship." He indicated the topics of future e-mails would be less emothional. The original e-mails seemed to contain a lot of emotion--he said she touched a chord in him. Later e-mails contain more "getting to know you" info--children, pets, and some facts about me. However, these e-mails are exchanged 3-5 times a day, every day. To me that is more than a friendship. I am heartsick. How do I cope? What can I do to stop this relationship without it backfiring on me?

My H started a n internet relationship the same way, and they have both left their marriages and are now together, although she lives 1200 miles away. Our marriage broke up over it. It has been ongoing for two years. Your H is moving down a very dangerous walkway, and your marriage is heading down it as well. Read all the info in Marriage Builders, be honest with your husband about how this is effecting your marriage without lovebusters. Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

emp:<P>Take "Give and Take", open it to "The Policy of Joint Agreement", and then SMACK HIM WITH IT...<P> <P>If things are greatly improving, that's a good sign. But I would print out and go over Harley's <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>"Four Rules for a Successful Marriage"</A>, and cover this with him (I can't remember if it's presented as such in Give and Take). <P>Then use the Rule of Complete Honesty, and be honest with him (even tell him you're using the "Rule of Complete Honesty"). Do it without lovebusters, of course---and don't respond negatively to any lovebusters he throws back.<P>Then say "I'd like to use the Policy of Joint Agreement to work out a solution that we enthusiastically agree to". And start doing it. In the end, if you can't come to a solution and he insists in continuing the behavior, you should use the Rule of Complete Honesty to let him know that this hurts you, you're losing love for him, you feel less important than his internet friends, and that you wish you could resolve it.<P>Don't nag him to death, but be honest when it does hurt you. He should get the hint eventually.

And if you need another danger of the internet as an example, my wife's internet affair ended up getting me another baby.<P>Of course, he's cute as can be---but I could have done without the turmoil in the middle. Internet affairs are serious stuff, and he shouldn't be putting himself in harm's way---even if he has no ill intentions.

Hi emp,<P>If you want proof on why this is wrong use me as an example to your H. <P>All of Tony's affairs started with the internet. Oh yes it is so harmless talking. But then it leads to flirting, than cybersex, phone sex and then real life sex. Tony only went real life sex with two of his women. He has had cybersex with 100s of women and almost the same amount for phone sex. He carried around pre-paid phone card. Would minimize the computer screen for stupid AOL everytime I came into the room. We faught for over a year to get rid of AOL. IT made it way to easy for him to find women in our area. <P>It took me forever to chatch him the second time. I ended up getting a low grade in one of my classes because I was leaving early just to catch him in the act. Since I found out about his second grouping of affairs he has been baned for life from the internet. If you wants to use the Internet he has to ask and I have to be in the room. I hate having to monitor him and I hate having to live through this garbage all over again. <P>Friendship or not your H should be willing to do what it takes to satisfy your sense of wellbeing. Three or four times a day emailing is NOT a friendship it is an EMOTIONAL AFFIAR. Trust me been there done that have the t-shirt. Please stop it now before it gets too out of hand. And since they plan on meeting at this national confrence I think you should go. Sure he says nothing will happen but what will he do when they both can not control themselves? Just food for thought. I am really not trying to scare you. Just letting you know what has happen to me.

I had a relationship with an ex-boyfriend that went downhill because of the internet (AOL to be precise) and all the "innocent" flirting and constant "chatting" behind my back. As a matter of fact, I ended the relationship because I was tired that he would spend time on his computer chatting with other girls while I was there- absolutely disrespectful. When I broke up with him, I ended up getting threatening instant messages and emails from his friends. I notified AOL and gave them copies of the IM's and emails and they DID nothing. <P>I'm in a marriage right now which is falling apart because it started with an affair that my H had with a girl on AOL. A month and a half into our marriage I would catch him on AOL, IMing girls (he said he also chatted with guys- yeah right). He said it was harmless but why would I find naked pictures of these girls on my computer and why would he minimize the screen when I would walk in? Just before our 2 month anniversary, he tells me he wants a divorce. His reason...being married hurts his chances of joint custody of his son. That didn't sit well because I felt as though being married would help his custody battle- stability, you know. Well, on our 2 month anniversary, he went out with the guys to a basketball game- that's what he said. Being really curious I logged onto his AOL account (have no regrets about it) and I found several emails from different women. One of them was an email on plans for a date after the game. He went on the date. The next day we fought and he said that because of me he would probably lose her. (They met each other online one week prior to their meeting). I left the house and out of confusion, heartbreak, lonliness, and betrayal, I went skiing with a former boyfriend (I very much regret that). My H found out and all of a sudden asked for me back. He said he was sorry he went and met her but nothing happened. I believed him and for one month we were happy until I started to question his story. Something inside of me didn't sit right. I confronted the OW by email since I didn't know her phone #. I just told her that I wanted to know the truth - no threatening or anything just the truth. What happens? He lashes at me and calls me names and tells me they went all the way and ends up telling me physical things about my H. At that point, I called my H at work and told him he was a liar. He came home trying to comfort me as I cried hysterically. He said that we needed to cancel AOL and we did. It helped for a little bit but the damage was already done. <P>When he logs onto the internet, I begin to worry. Instant messaging and live chat rooms worry me so much and I hate them all. I've had nothing but bad relationships because of them. AOL's AIM claims that you can meet new people and friends online but is that a good thing? I've seen it begin with innocent flirting to "I want to meet you so bad" to the first date or meeting and then an affair. These services only make people hide behind a keyboard and a screen which allows them to pretend to be someone they've always wanted to be "the perfect person". But its only a mask. <P>I agree with pahakissa1 that those emails are an emotional affair. My H shared with the OW things that he never shared with me. Whenever he walks into the computer room and logs on, I follow him. He yells at me saying that I don't trust him. Do you blame me? After a year, half of the pain is gone but it has resulted in my putting up a shield around me and questioning his every move. And to be honest, I've been correct on questionable events that have happened since. <P>Sorry, I'm babbling. But if you question if something might happen between them you need to ask yourself several questions. 1. Have you been like this with anyone else? 2. Is that a result of them betraying you? 3. Has your husband done anything in the relationship to honestly make you question him?

Many years ago I had a correspondence relationship with a guy who was in the slammer. I was doing personal ad dating at the time and didn't know that a number after a name meant a con.<P>It started as pen pals, then graduated to phone, then the next thing I knew I was flying out to meet him "to see if it was real."<P>And at the time I felt it was.<P>After a while, I started dating in real life again and that relationship fell by the wayside.<P>I was lucky...he called when he got out and accepted that I had moved on.<P>That was the equivalent at the time of meeting people online.<P>People just don't understand how the anonymity of chat rooms, E-mail, and messageboards creates the opportunity for a quasi-intimacy. It's up to the person involved to be aware of the dangers and set the rules accordingly.<P>For example: I have a rule, no male E-mail friends. I have a lot of women, though, tha I know only through E-mail, and I think sometimes that makes my H nervous. But if my H wants my passwords, he can have them. I have nothing to hide.<P>Again, the bigget problem is that people don't realize how easily they can get sucked into these things. And it takes a lot of strength to stop something like this when it gets out of control. Usually it's because the person likes the attention. In my case, this con wrote me 10-page letters professing devotion. It was pretty heady stuff. I was in my 20's and lonely, and it "seemed" real.<P>Aside from setting Internet rules, you need to determine what this does for your H that you don't give him. Maybe that'll help.

lilmystere,<P>Have you thought of you being the only person with the Password. The second affairs happened on our now IP Provider. He would join chat rooms about romance from a gaming site. <P>I need the internet connection for work and school if I did not need it we would not have it. The second time I found him that was it no access I change the password and he has to ask. When I get a chance I am also going to put a key logger on his and my computer. I will monitor everything that goes on. I hate living like this and I hate the fact that Tony is the jerk that created it. <P>I feel for you. It is so hard. I really hate AOL.

pahakissa1-<P>I thought about it but we both need the internet for school. But keeping the password from him seems pointless because he has access at work. Luckily, there are no signs on him fooling around on the net. I guess I just still have that fear that he will do it again when I least expect it. <P>Believe me, I hate this feeling as well and I hate what AOL has created. Although the complete blame cannot be placed on AOL.

Thanks to all for the responses.<P>An update:<P>She is not coming to the meeting--family plans. The content of the e-mails has escalated (in my opinion)--now talk of sexual fantasies. This is after he promised that he would ratchet down the comments. Yet our relationship is going well. What is going on? Is he just compartmentalizing the situations? <P>To K: Are you suggesting that I confront him with what I know? That means that I tell him that I have been going into his computer and reading his e-mail. I thought "snooping" is a major lovebuster.

My husband recently left me for a woman we met off of an internet game. Innocent flirting led to a full fledged emotional affair. And now I sit here with 2 small kids and my heart broken. Try and stop it before it gets out of hand. <P>Kristy

IMHO, the 'net can be very dangerous to marriages. When Dunc & I were emotionally estranged, he had a two-year period where he was online every night for many hours. I discovered an entire virtual life of his by accident, borrowing his computer because it was faster (boy, was it ever...). This included virtual sex. WOW, was I ever grossed-out and hurt. At the time, he couldn't understand what was so upsetting about it (among other things, I perceived it to be a big foot in the door toward a real-life affair. I was right; he had one with a woman he met - where else? - online).<P>emp, your H is really playing with fire. This is a story that has been played out thousands, maybe even millions of times, since being online became a national pastime (or obsession, take your pick!). It seems very innocent and fun, but can be insidious, and lots of people who are emotionally vulnerable wind up in affairs.<P>I *wholeheartedly* agree that your H is in an emotional affair. The time and emotional energy and intimacy that he is indulging in this relationship has no place in your marriage, or in any *healthy* marriage. You must make him understand that he is disrespecting you and your marriage. The information on this website is a good place to start, as K mentioned. Read everything you can here. Your H is a disaster waiting to happen, and does not realize it. Try not to approach him in an authoritarian way (no lovebusters, no disrespectful judgements), or he will resist the challenge to his autonomy - but you really must do all you can to control the potential for damage here. It is *not* a good situation. Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by emp:<P>Are you suggesting that I confront him with what I know? That means that I tell him that I have been going into his computer and reading his e-mail. I thought "snooping" is a major lovebuster.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would say forget about snooping being a LB, just confront him with the fact that you know. It might not stop him from seeing her (see my story in thread "In need of some encouragement"), but it will maybe take some of the excitement out of the affair. However, when you do tell do it calmly and without doing any other lovebusters.<P>In my situation W went on and had the affair and found that the OM was a major jerk, and we are now trying to get our marriage together, we're both committed but W is having major problems with depressions and withdrawal symptoms over it, at a time when you really wants both parts to work enthusiaticly to improve the marriage. However, I couldn't have stopped my wife from meeting this other guy, even though I suspected what was going to happen (and did), since that would damage our chances of reconsiliation afterwards.

Well, where to begin...I now know that my husband read every single e-mail that was sent and received between myself and the OM. How incredibly embarrassing BUT by his telling me that he knew, it took all of the excitement out of the on-line affair. I still met the man and had a one night stand (I use this term for my own sanity). My opinion is tell him you know. He'll probably be angry, embarrassed, etc. (I was) and it may not stop him but it might burst the bubble of bizarre excitement that these on-line affairs give. I regret with my entire being what I did and realize now how dangerous it is to meet a stranger you only know from letters and phone calls. Be calm<BR>but tell him, tell him, tell him and don't let him off the hook. My husband didn't let me off the hook and it helped save our marriage.

Emp,<BR> these internet affairs can destroy your marriage.No matter how harmless they may seem at first,it can lead to a full blown affair.my husband was involved for over two years in one and we are still having trouble<BR> because of it.AOL does make it a little to easy in my opinion. He needs to cut off all<BR> contact now! I hate seeing this happen to other people,it feels terrible. I hope you can get through to him that he has to put an end to it now.<BR> take care<BR> CP