I just got the following message from my H:<BR>The kids should not have to call you when they are with me for the weekend.<BR>They are safe with their father and will be gone for less than 48 hours.<BR>You should tell them that it is OK for them not to call.<BR>You should NOT tell them that "Daddy does not want you to call."<P>Immediately before I got the message, I had reminded my 7 year old that I would not be home Saturday evening. She said she wanted to call and leave a message. Not surprisingly, when I asked the kids what they wanted to do, they said they wanted to call me. My seven year old said, "I want to call you every night, Mommy."<P>What right does he have to tell me what I should or shouldn't do? Who the H*** does he think he is. I didn't tell them that he didn't want them to call, but that is obviously the case. Why??????? It is fine with me if they call him, or vice versa. How can anyone be so EVIL!

i'm sorry that it bothers your husband that your kids love you and want to talk to you when your not with them.<BR>It sounds like jealousy to me.<BR>He feels the kids care more about you than they do him.<BR>I could be wrong and have been.<BR>God bless

unforgiven,<BR>Either that or it's the OW's idea.<P>I WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD CHILDREN IF I HAD KNOWN THAT THEIR UPBRINGING COULD BE CONTROLLED BY A STRANGER. One of the most important factors to me in choosing a husband was what kind of father I thought he would make. But he turned into a monster, yet the courts, as Jim found out, said they can do anything they want. I hope my children never get married. I hope the girls, if they want children, adopt or use AI, and I hope my son adopts. Getting anyone else involved in producing children was the biggest mistake I ever made, and I am never going to forgive my self for it.

Nellie -<P>HE (or she) is baiting you...why are you letting them get to you so?<P>You know the truth of the kids and the phone calls!!!! The kid's feelings are what matters!! As long as you are honest with what the children want and need and don't play games and fill their heads with negativity about their father then why worry about his/her insecurities?<P>YOU are making this tooooo big and important!!! Just send a note back saying that you are sorry that they feel that way but the children are the ones who want to call!!! If they do then they should be allowed to. After all, the children are the important ones here, right?<P>Don't take their bait anymore Nellie!!!<BR>Change the rules of this sick power game they are trying to play!!<P>Just don't play!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba <p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited January 07, 2000).]

Sheba,<BR>Because his "games" have major consequences for the kids. If he decides to not let them call, they will be terribly hurt. If he manages to convince the school system that one of them is not reading well enough, they can force me to put her in school. He is doing everything possible to encourage aggressiveness in our son. He tried to shame him into going to a James Bond movie, and was planning to take the OW's son too, although the movie is PG13 and the OW's son is barely 12. I don't want my son to see movies where the hero goes around scr**ing every female in sight, and fortunately he is not interested. But most importantly I don't want him growing up knowing that his father is ashamed of him. <P>I don't want to have to go through my life wondering what he will do next to scr** me or the kids over. And he will keep thinking of new things.

Then you must take whatever positive action you can to handle this balogna!!!<P>Are you keeping a log of all these incidents?<P>Are you journaling the children's reactions and behaviors to this manipulating by H and OW?<P>Have you made the school counselors aware of what is going on with this sort of behavior from H?<P>Have you consulted Child Phsychaitrists for the welfare of the children and the recording of any ill effects?<P>You have to have some back up in case your fears come to light.....what can you do to protect them?<P>Do you talk to your son about the "shaming" that his father is manipulating him with? Do you make sure that S knows that he shouldn't feel bad, etc?<P>Besides all of these things and all of the LOVE that you have for them.....<P>What else can you do Nellie? I don't see much else.......<P>He's not going to stop while he has this need for power and this OW broad with her insecurities to boot!!!!<P>You have to be the one to carry the kids through it with the least amount of damage to them.....and to yourself!!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Nellie<BR>You continue to show your true colors. You are doing everything you can to protect those kids of yours and it seems you are doing a fine job. <P>Unfortunately, you are correct in assuming that they are very "influenceable" right now and it's especially critical that they learn things that are going to HELP them lead honorable, happy and constructive lives.<P>It's one thing to behave poorly towards you, you are an adult and sometimes we just have to deal with $%^#, but, your kids DESERVE RESPONSIBLE PARENTING. <P>I don't really have anything constuctive to suggest but what about the attorneys that support battered women ? in many ways you are being battered by his actions and certainly they've handled cases like that before .....and maybe have won a few ???<P>Hang in There - Tina

Nellie...I have been through what you are going through with the phone calls please please e-mail me at: willbok99@hotmail. I will let you know what i have done and believe me i have got through most of it and do let him "push my buttons" as minimally as possible. We have had zero contact since July other than once in court and he appeared at a motion discovery when he was not aupposed to and I refused to meet with his lawyer until he left. These men are ultra controlling of us...and if they cannot get to us, they will find any means and this is through the kids. I will let you know what i have done....some not great and some stuff that has worked.<BR>First of all take care of yourself and have you seen a therapist to deal with your emotions and anger? This is very helpful and your emotions are very normal for the situation. <BR>

Wow,<BR>Sounds like my situation. The girls are not allowed to call me because he considers it "his" time with the girls. He turns off the ringer so if I do call they can't hear the phone ring. He has caller ID so sometimes if he forgets to turn off the ringer he will look at the caller ID and say "it's just solicitation". He only lets them call me if he wants to bring them home early. If I'm not home he will tell them that I am out having fun and that I don't care about them. His main phone is his cell phone....he uses if for all his personal phone calls. We are not allowed to know the number. He once told the girls that if I am a good girl he might give me the number. He carries this phone everywhere and will talk about me on it as he and the girls are strolling through block buster. The girls are so ashamed of their dad. My 7 year old told him that he is acting like a kid! And our 9 year old thinks he is the most disgusting person in the world. He is particularly mean to her because she looks a lot like me. It is so sad. I feel so sorry for the children involved in all of this. My old attorney told me that if "i" would quit fighting with him then all of this crap would stop. I stopped a long time ago......he hasn't.<BR>Nancy

Sheba,<BR>I assured my son that he is fine just the way he is, and that there is no reason that he should have to like James Bond or anything else. I have all of his emails from the last nine months, many of which contradict each other.<BR>Tina,<BR>The attorneys I have talked to - who are just regular divorce attorneys - have been so unhelpful. The counselors we saw were also useless, although obviously they both were of the opinion that he should never have introduced the OW a mere six weeks after he left.<BR>willbok,<BR>I will email you shortly.<P><BR>The kids said they wanted to call me every night. I waited until 11 pm, then called the OW's house. I asked to speak to my son, figuring the others would be asleep. She gave the phone to my H. He said that he asked them why they needed to call me, and they couldn't come up with a reason. Therefore, apparently, he did not let them call. I told him that I would never prevent them from calling him, and that I wished he would call them. He said that they never had anything to say. He just doesn't have a clue. I pointed out that it takes practice, and that maybe they just wanted to talk to him, even if they didn't have much to say. I told him I wanted him to assure them that they could call me anytime they want, that they don't have to have a reason - they can call just because they want to. He said fine. We'll see if he actually tells them that.

Mu stbx is doing some of the same things. Over the weekend she allowed our daughter,12 yo, and her friend to walk around the mall by themselves while she and om had my son with them. She also lets them see pg13 movies and videos all the time. She so wants to be their "friend." Yet she was the one that put in the divorce agreement that she wanted the minimum visitation rights(1 day a week and every other weekend). I guess she doesn't want to interupt her dating schedule. Like tonite she was off and talked for 5 min to the kids. No offer to pickup or run them anyplace. She works this weekend and probably most of next week as she is on vacation next weekend and she is going to Fl with om to meet his mommy whi is footing the bill I think.<P>I don't get whats with these supposed parents.<P>God Bless!<P>Bob

Mental,<BR>My H has not given me her number or his work number, though he obviously knows I have her number. He gave the kids a set of encyclopedias today - who knows why - still in their original shipping boxes, with the address carefully removed. Like I don't know where she lives? <P>RWD,<BR>My H apparently pays them little attention when he is with them, and is only willing to visit them approximately the minimum amount. I will never understand how they can put the OP ahead of their kids.

Nellie, you have a controlling, evil person for a husband. I am going through the same thing and, really, the only thing that has helped me is constant, unrelenting prayer. Please, even if you are not a "religious" person, please don't give up on God. He has a plan for your life and, yes, this is part of it. I ask myself everyday "Why are the children having to pay the price for their father's evil behavior?" and then I pray for them because I know that God loves them and he loves their father, too. As hard as it is for me to fathom that. Nellie, I agree with the poster that said to contact a Woman's Abuse center. I did that and they told me that they will counsel you free of charge and they have a program for the children which teaches the children how to empower themselves when they are with their father. Your childrens' father (and my kids' father) is abusive and controlling. This is the real issue, Nellie. If you look back into your marriage I bet you will see that he was this way then, too. Probably in a passive aggressive manner, though. Now he has become outright aggressive and hostile. I have so much sympathy for you because I am going through the same thing. I had no idea he could get as low as he has gotten. My children are the real victims -- which is the same as your case. I wonder everyday when this nightmare will end.

During our marriage my H was often irritable and short-tempered, and sometimes passive-aggressive, but even in retrospect I don't think I would describe him as controlling. The controlling behavior seemed to start during the affair. Even now, if I am talking to him, he is sometimes reasonable. His unreasonableness is almost always communicated through email or his lawyer. <P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited January 08, 2000).]

Hi Nellie -<P>Your conversation with H was great...you did fabulously!!!!<P>What you just said in your last post here is a big eye opener...or at least confirmer of what we probably have known all along.....<P>The OW is the one who prompts the conflict between you and H and is using the children as the control weapon.<P>EMails and Lawyer.....gee - like she isn't the one reading what you send him and standing over him (if not physically, in his mind's eye) telling him what he should tell you!! And the lawyer.....isn't it HER money and lawyer? <P>This is an awful and dangerous game she is playing....but you know what? H might be allowing it and perpetuating it now because of his "affair fog" but that won't last forever. She is LOVEBUSTING big time!!!! HE will resent it and see it for what it is eventually.<P>In the meantime, you just keep being that wonderful person who REALLY cares for him and the children...not to control but out of love!!! Call me naive, but I still think that love prevails over the long run!!!<P>So, you show the love and those kids will come to realize and understand what this woman is doing and that Dad lost his brain and is being dragged around by his....uh...er.....orbs!!! <P>The more you write....the more convinced I am that your H and mine are left with vacant spaces in their heads. The are taking a break from their own responsibilities and letting someone else lead their lives for them....<P>Perhaps cuz they messed up so badly and can't face it.....it's much easier to let it continue than to take the reins of responsibility back and turn around to face themselves and who they hurt!!<P>He's mixed up inside, like mine, and is not ready to find out why and what to do about it.....<P>Like I said on your other post.....it won't go away. It will come back to the surface again and their current "happy" little lives will go KABOOM!!!!<P>Then what? <P>I am glad that I am not them!!!!<P>Just some rambling thoughts.<P>I am glad that you are doing well with work and such and I feel better now that you said that you do laugh and enjoy!! Glad to hear that you are keeping busy and don't feel depressed also.<P>It's hard to know what people really need from just the writings on here. I had these visions of you just being so sad and angry and I got scared!! Most of your threads are so concentrated on H or the kids and your analyzing of him and the sadness comes through so clearly....I was afraid that you were losing YOU.<P>And you know my ramblings...gosh, I write about everything..... I swear you guys know more about me than I do!!! LOL!!!!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Nellie1,<BR>My sister is also dealing with the ex and step-monster from hell. The step-monster is one of his affairees, too. My sis has taken him to court many times for the verbal abuse he's given her over the phone. There is some kind of clause in the divorce settlement for that kind of BS. There is also such a thing as "interference" when it comes to the kids. My ex's sister took her ex-H to court because he was telling his son that his mom didn't really love him and that boys should be with their dads. There are legal remedies!! That crap stopped soon enough when they found out there were real consequences.<P>I'm with you on the adoption issue. I've seen what my sister and my ex's sister have gone through. Many countries accept single women adopting (don't know about single men) up to the age of 45. I plan to do this after I graduate.

Nellie,<BR>I do attend Domestic Violence classes and so do the girls. Like you, my H was never controlling during the marriage. He had never even lifted a hand at me (or a finger to help around the house LOL). But after I found out about the affair it all started. My counseling and the girls is free. It has done wonders. I wasn't sure it was helping...but with time and counseling...I am about 80% the person that I used to be. And I also like what I see. The more I like myself the more I see what a jerk he has become. Before I thought I deserved the verbal abuse, because he led me to believe that I was the cause of the breakup of our marriage. I wasn't. I don't reply to his childish and demeaning words anymore. I just say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and I say goodbye and hang up. After doing that for about 2 months it has dwindled down quite a bit. But the support I recieve from these wonderful women in that group and the wonderful people here on this board, I have found myself once again and I am starting to feel happy. The great unknown...like the custody thing....is my only fear. But deep down inside I know he doesn't want the girls. And it hurts real bad. But sometimes I have to resort back to the childhood sayings...sticks and stones....and I"m rubber and your glue...... I know they are silly but they are oh so true.<BR>Nancy

Sheba,<BR>I just find it so hard to believe that he is letting her keep him away from his children. The last time my son asked him to spend more time with them, he said he "can't" spend anymore time with the children than he already is - with no explanation. I just hope he gets sufficiently resentful soon. <P>I agree that they are letting someone else run their lives. <P>TheStudent,<BR>My sister said months ago that maybe women and children would be better off if the father was never involved. I wish I hadn't had to come to the conclusion that she may be right.

Nancy,<BR>I am glad to hear that you feel like you are on the road to returning to your "normal" self.