Below is an edited email from my W. For more of a background see my post "3 Qs." Currently, I plan to reread Harley's Plan A and B materials and not draw any lines in the sand. I am also interested in any of your thoughts and suggesstions. <P><<snip>><BR>I am sorry that the counselor did not talk to you about what he and I talked about. <P>I guess I assumed that he was going to tell you and that we would have discussed it with him together the last 30 minutes. <P>I have felt that I have given 3 extra years (to the marriage?), and I do not have any more to give. Nothing is going to help. <P>I made a mistake 3 years ago (here I am not sure if she means having an affair or staying married). I gave another 3 years to this marriage, and still do not feel I have gotten anything in return. <P>Cleaning the house, doing chores those things do not mean anything to me. After 3 years you never became affectionate with me anymore, and I am sure it was hard to do in the beginning, but after 3 years it is the same. <P>There is no affection or trust between us. You coming up to see if I was at the store yesterday proved that (she said she would be gone for 15 min and was gone for 2 hrs - lovebuster I know...). You could have called and I would have come to the phone. I am not sure what you are trying to catch me doing, but it will not work this time. <P>I have a hard time talking to you face to face, but there are some things we need to discuss. It is time to move on for both of us. <P>We need to discuss the future, "2nd daughter's name" and everything else we have not discussed in the last 3 years. <P>I am sorry to write you while you are at work, but I need to express some of what I am feeling, and this is a start. <P>Wife's Name<BR><<snip>><P>I'd appreciate any comments.<BR>

Hello T2,<P>Just from your W's email because you have no profile written (okay, one sentence)... here are my impressions with questions:<P>She cheated on you three years ago. <BR>How long has it been over? When did you find out?<P>You are both seeking counseling.<BR>That's GREAT! Is it helping you? Is it to repair your marriage, or is it to help each of you work on yourselves?<P>You've never forgiven her.<BR>True?<P>You don't trust her.<BR>I would also be worried if my H said he was leaving for 15 minutes and didn't come back for two hours. I don't see that as a lovebuster.<P>There is no affection between you.<BR>Have you shown her love? How? Do you make love, hold hands? <P>How is your communication? Why does she have a hard time talking to you face to face? Is it "her" problem, or have you given her reason to be afraid?<P>Lots of questions, I know... but I'd like to know more, and I'm sure others will too...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

Sheryl,<P>Thanks for the response. I have made comments after each of the " " sections.<P>"She cheated on you three years ago. <BR>How long has it been over? When did you find out?"<P>From what I understand it lasted for 1 year and has over for 3 years(?). I found out about 3 months into the affair - shortly thereafter I went to the couts for a divorce and we were with in months of the final court date when we called it off -- after attending a marriage weekend (see post 3 Q's for more).<P>"You are both seeking counseling.<BR>That's GREAT! Is it helping you? Is it to repair your marriage, or is it to help each of you work on yourselves?"<P>We started to see a marriage counselor who has given some standard advice (family life counselors <A HREF="http://www.flc.org" TARGET=_blank>http://www.flc.org</A> ). However, my wife comments that she does not see it helping and questions me as to what I hope to get out of it. My reply is that we will get out of it what we put into it... but I feel she is not putting any effort (hope) into our marriage and has not for some time. I believe that she may be using the counseling sessions as an exit strategy. That is, an exit strategy, which will allow her to say to herself and others that she tried and it just wouldn't work no matter what either of us did… that we have just grown too far apart etc... <P>Currently, I am trying to get what I can out of counseling and do what I can to build the relationship (love bank deposits, etc).<P>"You've never forgiven her.<BR>True?"<P>Forgiven her? I'd like to think that I have. I have told her that I have. <P>"You don't trust her.<BR>I would also be worried if my H said he was leaving for 15 minutes and didn't come back for two hours. I don't see that as a lovebuster."<P>I believe that I have forgiven her. However, when she does things like the above (this is only the most recent example)it is hard to trust her. When I said lovebuster I meant that it probably did not improve things between us when I drove up to the store and walked in to see if she was there.<P>"There is no affection between you.<BR>Have you shown her love? How? Do you make love, hold hands? "<P>For a few months, after calling off the divorce, things seemed to go fine. Then the world turned.... she stopped accepting my offers to do things as a couple little things like movies or dinner out and even turning down an opportunity to accompany me on a business trip to Hawaii. She freely admits that she put (always has) the children before me (and many other things in my opinion).<P>Six months ago she moved out of the bedroom and stopped wearing her wedding ring. She denies that she is seeing anyone. She claims that she just doesn't have feelings for me anymore and doesn't feel comfortable in the marriage bed or wearing her ring.<P>Affection is little to none. For the last two days I have made the effort to give her a hugs - I do not feel much response from her. <P>"How is your communication? Why does she have a hard time talking to you face to face? Is it "her" problem, or have you given her reason to be afraid?"<P>She prefers to talk to people who are divorced or are going through a divorce. I admit I have not been the best listener and I am working on that. <P>Hope that helps fill in some of the details.<P>T2<P>

Yes, it does, and thank you T2.<P>Okay, so she's where I am, in a way...believe it or not... or maybe a little behind me since I am <B>here</B>, right? <P>I think you're "right on" about much of what you think about her motives.<P>I think she's confused and actively seeking a divorce. That's why she's only talking to divorced or divorcing friends. She wants "back up" for her actions.<P>I think you're right about the counseling - that she's using it to "save face" and be able to say that she "tried everything" to save your marriage.<P>I think that she took off her ring because she doesn't feel married any longer.<P>Do I think there is no hope? Actually, I think there <B>IS HOPE</B>, but that it's going to take some time, patience, and lots of love on <B>your part</B> alone to acheive what you want: to get your marriage back on track.<P>Let me tell you a little about where I'm coming from...I love my H, but I "fell out of love" with him somewhere around my 40th birthday, December 1998. I was unfaithful early last year, for three months. He's had 5 relationships with women that were "inappropriate" (to use Clinton's words) although he never slept with any of them. So, we've both been unfaithful over the course of our nearly 20 yr. marriage. Both of us keep hoping that the other one will grab the reins and lead our marriage back to the correct path, but neither of us seem to be able to get past the pain to do it. Someone has got to be the strong one. You are the strong one in your marriage, so it's gotta be up to <B>you</B>. Is it fair? Nope. But if you want your marriage to survive, and I'm assuming you do since you're here, then you've got to do it. <P>What does that mean? Well, check out Plan A (I wish I could remember how to make a link here) but it's on the main MB page. Plan A her until she has no choice but to fall in love with you again. Keep coming here and posting. Post specific questions about Plan A, and there's lots of folks here who will be happy to help.<P>Most of all...don't give up. You have so much potential!!<P>Best wishes... <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

Sheryl,<P>Thanks. I am printing Plan A and will read it again before going home. <P>T2<P>PS I updated my profile