Morning all,<BR>I say we give the pinhead of the week award to my h this time. <BR>What an idiot he can be. He is gone so communication is limited to fax and e-mail. He sent an e-mail saying 'i want to go diving, i really like it and miss it'. <BR>Well, some of you will recall, the dive trips he took were without me because someone needs to be with the kids. And they always involved OWs. <BR>Maybe I am being overly sensitive this week, but the words 'I' and 'dive' do NOT go together.<BR>Any other nominees? Grrrrrrr.

Hi CL -<P>Long time - no type!!!!!<P>Since mine is a pinhead all the time - I don't need to nominate for only a week!!! LOL!!!<P>WHAT is he thinking? UGH!!<P>What did you say to him? Is this for now wherever he is? Or is it a trip that you could postpone or fanagle for when you could possibly join him?<P>Don't you sometimes feel like all this work and knowledge is bouncing around in vast areas of unused space in their heads? Guess with him saying this....they just bounced off the "stupid" wall!!! LOL!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR>

Well you could suggest he dive with a couple of cement blocks, but that wouldn't be nice, would it.<P>Although you were obviously venting (and of course legitimately) and did not ask for an opinion or advise, I just can not help myself today...and gee...I should get a free hall pass because it is my big D day and all.<P>Why not send an e-mail back saying that diving would be great. Then mention your past experience and fears with diving and ask him to come up with a plan to dive WITHOUT a negative impact on your marriage. Put it back in his hands.<P>Hey maybe a few of those dives deprived your H of oxigen?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

cl--<P>{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}} to one of my favorite posters around here.<P>How about your response saying, "As long as that 'I' doesn't become 'we,' your W's agreement may be negotiated. Is that possible?"<P>Men are clueless, ya know. (apologies all round to our esteemed male colleagues)<P><waving to Sheba!!!><P>Laura<BR>

Hey sheba, there seems to be a vast amt of unused space in their heads...some might have cotton up there, alcohol, or air, but I think my h has a head full of sh** this week. <BR>Mega lb isn't it! But I did not tell him that. I wrote back and said that I was hurt by the mention of 'i' and 'dive' and he writes a nastygram back saying that he wanted me there to dive with him, sun on the beach, etc. Then went into a page long rant about how I am looking at the dark side, can't I get over all of it for the new century, etc. You get the picture.<BR>I have been great at no lbs, even though I wanted butterfly's fry pan when he wrote that! I apologized for upsetting him, but maintained that the dive issues are not resolved and it bothers me. Another rant reply, so I am in ignore mode since yesterday. He sent another nastygram today.<BR>Pinhead, YES. <P>

Okay, I am being oversensitive again, is that right?! <BR>Thanks fhl, please feel free to offer advice, chew me out, or whatever at any time! I always gain so much from your posts. Maybe I should write him and tell him that I would love to go, make the plans for us?<BR>But I sold all my dive gear after finding out one of the OWs used it on a little trip they took! <BR>Cement blocks might work...maybe a tank full of nitrous...<BR>Lucks, should I extend the offer to go with when he returns in Feb? Would be stressful for me, but think I could manage?

Just give some thought about the diving...you'll come up with something. I am sure your clueless H is not looking at all of this from the same perspective.<P>Sure glad you sold that equiptment...disinfecting it may not have been enough.<P>Hey, how about circling all the words you can't read on the nastygram and send it back saying you can only "read" nice words.<P>It works telling my 4 year old I don't hear whiny voices.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

cl<BR>You know FHL is probably right about the perspective thing.<BR>Our H's wanted to play. We had responsibilities. They found playmates.<BR>Your H went diving. Mine went antique shopping. They were doing things they liked to do. They don't even relate those things to tramps and bimbos.<BR>Insensitive vs oversensitive.<BR>You have a right to be sensitive about these triggers. Your H is being insensitive to your feelings. <BR>But aren't you glad that those tramps meant so little to him that he doesn't even think of them when thinking of his hobby?

Thanks ladies!! <BR>Yes, ws, it is insensitive vs oversensitive. You have such a nice way of cutting to the chase. <BR>The e-mail gets transmitted in about 20 mins, so I suppose I should send him something? Ideas ladies and gents? <BR>Maybe could offer to go with him, he makes the plans, but ot to any of the OW places? <BR>Is it time for me to take back the pacific?!<BR>FHL, I am cracking up-same tactics for 4 yr old?! Might work, sure willing to try.

Warning: Sexist remark ahead - all sensitive males, cover your eyes!<P>cl, FHL: Men = 4yo<P>That's why the same tactics will work. If you've read Michele Weiner-Davis's <I>Divorce Busting</I> or any of her books, I think, she talks about a time that her H and her 4yo got into an argument about whether or not they had any soup. 4yo: Do we have any soup? H: I don't see any. 4yo: Yeah, but do we have any soup? H: I don't see any. This continued for a few more rounds and was because 4yo wanted the concrete answer "Yes" or "No" and H felt that was what he was saying ... of course, we know that wasn't what he was really saying...<P>And cl, maybe your H really thought "I want to go diving" was the same as saying "Maybe we can go diving together" - remember Men are from Mars ...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

I would send him an e-mail saying something along the lines of that's great that you went to all the trouble to find a sitter for the kids for us for the weekend, when are we going? Tell him your looking forward to some quality time alone with him doing something you both enjoy and then go. Too often we tie ourselves to our kids and don't devote enough time and attention to ourselves and our spouses. But I would definately put it in those words and see what he says. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

Hey,<P>I have chicken noodle soup! The original kind. No low sodium for me. Hypertension is all in your mind. Give me a saline IV. Hell, make it a double. Don't get the double noodle variety it has too many damn noodles.<P>Sorry CL, I'm being a nitwit. It seems that this event is a trigger for you. Communication is so important in a relationship. I could ask Val what color is the sky and she would answer that the grass is green. OK?<P>TELL HIM HOW YOU FEEL! Yes, we [the men from Mars] need to be hit in the head. I don't take hints very well. I wish Val would have told me exactly what she wanted. We might still be together today. <P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Zippy the PINHEAD

Hey cl,<P>I was wondering what was happening with you.<P>I must say I like all Chicks idea. <P>And Terri is right some men (mine included) remind me of 4 yr. olds.<P>Hang in there and let us know what happens.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

cl--<P>As the book title tells us, "everything we need to know we learned in Kindergarten."<P>I suggest for the e-mail, "okay, okay, here's your sand toys. I'll get some too and meet you underwater...in Feb. love you. now, kiss and make up."<P>Laura

HI All, medic is the only guy brave enoough to venture amongst us today? <BR>Careful medic, don't get too carried away. Anchovies for dessert? <BR>Telling him the feeling is a huge issue-he only wants to hear the warm fuzzies while he is gone. Yes, he has said so. <BR>After reading all the above, I sent a warm fuzzy, apology for sharing feelings, but not for having the feelings, gave him a few cold pricklys to think about-but was fairly kind. <BR>Thanks chicks, my kids do not need a babysitter anymore-big guys now! So I did tell him I would like to go with him diving. Will see what he sends back tomorrow. <BR>Thanks terri, 4 yr olds?! My goodness. I will have to find the db book-it is in this sty somewhere. I don't think you and I have talked much since one of the betrayers and I disagreed on some basics. Thanks for the response.<BR>I will be happy when I find some way to get this issue behind us. It is a huge stepping stone. I feel a bit responsible for this issue to. For the last 20 yrs i have given my h some fabulous dive vacations to mexico, fiji, cayman, africa, etc as gifts. We never could leave the kids for long enough for both to go, as he thinks anything less than 3 wks is wasteful. We did go to the Great barrier reef and nz together, with the kids. We dove together in HI quite a bit. I paid for the trips and he met someone or planned for an ow to be there with him!! Apparently none could get the diving down pat, so they became the bimbos on the beach in the daytime. Never-the-less, I take issue that they were there, on my gift, while I was here working and taking care of kids. <BR>Okay....I need to lose this issue guys!! Help me some more. Please.<BR>

HI Deb, thanks for the support!!<BR>Lucks, I think you have hit on something that will appeal to him! Recreational companionship is a big need for him, though he lists it 5th. If I type it just like you say, it is tender, loving, apology, and at his level all in the same sentence. <BR> thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cl,<BR> Yup! That was sh**y and insensitive. I would call him on it and say how it makes you feel. I know you don't think you should have to but "they" can get stupid air bubbles in the brain occationally!<BR> My H just pulled a stupid too. We snuck into the bathroom for a quicky,while our son was on the computer. I know it's not very appropriate but these momments help our relationship. After-wards he says,"It's not too bad,you know doing this while he's in the other room?" H use to meet with OW at her house and sneak into the bathroom or basement while the kids were watching a video!!! Just what I needed. Like he ever gave it a second thought with her!<BR> A tie ? Nah- you win still. Take Care,<BR> SAME BECCA (use to be BECCA)

cl,<BR>I hope you H takes the idea and runs with it... and takes you on a wonderful vacation! If not, just let me know & I'll send the frying pan (as soon as I dislodge it from my H's head). <BR>Thoughts & Prayers<BR>B<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

Hi Cl,<P>Sorry you are having a go right now. I think your H is being a bit of a jerk for not even understanding your view point. Also sending the nasty grams is not that nice either. Has he apolgized for that?<P>Second, why not tell him exactly as you said in one of your responses why the diving trips are such an issue with you. I honestly think he should try and do something to regain your trust in this area. No love busters just say this is how I feel and why I feel this of way. The I statements should not place him on the defensive that much. Hang in there and I will say a little prayer that pinhead of the week gets the message through his mushy brain.

Thanks for validating my feelings ladies! Sometimes I am not real clear if they are too much, but I guess that is part of the recovery. I do have a tendency to go overboard!!<BR>Becca, I think he was referring to have a quickie with you...and was in macho mode? I can see why that would raise a few neck hairs. They are insensitive aren't they?<BR>Paha, no apology yet, but the e-mail is transmitted later this am. So we will see. This is one area where recovery hasbeen dramatic with him. He never used to apologize for being a horse's butt, and now he does. Will let you know.<BR>Butterfly, that fry pan is really getting put to the test this week. I think deb has something-we just line them all up and whack em all in the head a few times. Maybe it would push the air or smelly brown stuff out?