I have had a crazy week. Finally saw H on Tuesday (after his spending 2 weeks and ALL the holidays with OW) and got encouraged. Saw him again on Wednesday and he was friendly, but somewhat retracted.<P>Son had all 4 wisodm teeth out yesterday. Did H call or come by? No. He was in town becuase I saw the van at the healthclub. Did he call or come by today? No, and I saw his van at the healthclub today, too. Remember H told me on Tuesday that he was going to be around all week and come here on the weekend to work on his bike. Well, we haven't seen hide nor hair of him. AND, he never called any of the kids for any of the holidays either - Thanksgiving, Christmas or New Years. <P>So, my love bank is virtually empty today. I told myself I would wait awhile here (maybe until Valentine's) and see if he did ANYTHING to try to move toward me. And I will wait a bit more time. I did post those little positives on my Tuesday night thread and maybe they were just stretches and nothing else. I can no longer discern at this time.<P>My thinking is along this line. <B>Naysayers,</B> please feel free to give opposing opinions or point out the fallacy of my thinking:<P>By staying away from me, my H in effect has both me and the OW. He knows I want him back and knows I am not going to divorce him right now. So, by staying separated, he gets his cake and eats it too - he has <B>BOTH</B> of us in his life to some extent. However, he also knows that a condition to come home is to give the OW up, and so, in effect he has to "lose" one of us (OW) by recommiting to our marriage. He has NO incentive to come home! And, he doesn't want a divorce, either, because that would mean he would "lose" me.<P>He has been gone for 6+ months (except for the 2 - 3 week reconsiliation in the middle)and isn't showing any signs of being ready to change things to work toward "us". All that has happened is an escalation in his relationship with the OW. They went on a vacation together. He brought her here to Atlanta for the holidays - she met a few of his friends and the oldest son. He has finally e-mailed to his mother and mentioned OW, too.<P>After 10 1/2 months of this crap, I am about over this. It is one thing if he was home and trying, but his trying was misguided. In other words, if he was home and putting in effort, even though the effort wasn't producing the desired results, I could continue to be patient. It is quite another thing that he has abandoned me and the kids and is making no bones at all about not trying anything except stuff that spells out <B>f-u-n</B> for him. I guess he must be having fun, because he wouldn't continue to do this if it wasn't fun.<P>I have decided I need to give this a short time frame and then consider filing for divorce, whether he is ready for one right now or not. I would be getting the divorce for ME, not for his benefit and not to hurt him, either. Just so I can start to do things I won't do as a married woman. I wouldn't mind going on a date right now. I have no one lined up nor anyone picked out, but I am starved for some attention right now.<P>My thoughts are this:<P>If I stay in PlanA or go to PlanB, it is just more of the same - I continue to put myself in suspended animation while my H continues to cheat on me. What could I possibly gain from this???? Remember, we all know that neither PlanA nor PlanB brings the betrayer home. The only thing that will bring my H to me is for him to want to give up the OW (which he doesn't want to do under the present circumstances because he has us BOTH) or for the OR to fall apart [it hasn't because I believe BOTH me and the OW are meeting all his needs. I have to say this: I don't think my H is really happy right now, but this status quo appears to be the best for him - less painful than giving me up entirely (divorce) or giving up the OW entirely (reconciliation)].<P>If I get a divorce, as is being suggested by my regular counselor, then I could start with a "clean slate". I would certainly be willing to date my H as I love him and enjoy his company. I think my H will NEVER come back to the marriage at this point. He just sees this as too much trouble and too much damage to be repaired. It is going on a year for his affair. However, if we were divorced, he might view a "new" relationship with me differently. he might be interested at some time in the future (if OR falls apart) to want to date me and view that as a totally new and separate relationship from the marriage that will forever be marred by infidelity in his mind.<P>What if I go to PlanB and we end up divorced anyway? All I did was prolong the inevitable. What if we get back together?? If there were any REAL signs of my H wanting a reconciliation with me, I would never file for the divorce! The only possible reason to go to Plan B is to see if the OR might fall apart if I am no longer meeting my H's needs and the OW can't for some reason meet them all. You know, there is always a possibility that she CAN meet them all, although I don't think it is probable. But, remember my H said the reason he is doing htis and why he left is because of my EA. So, even if the OR fell apart, will H <B>ever</B> forgive me or forgive himslef for what he is doing now?????<P>I am afraid I would go into PlanB and this same crap would continue to happen and eventually, I will have to be the one to file for the divorce, because my H, isn't going to do it to keep me engaged and him still having us both. Right now I am VERY disappointed in my H, and I am viewing him as NOT worth all this trouble and effort. <P>Maybe this is just discouragement. But, I think all people need some postive feedback and continued encouragement from their partner to continue down a path as painful as this one. I have travelled this road totally alone for 10 1/2 months and NOTHING has changed as far as our relationship. I have changed and grown in positive ways, but the relationship between me and my H is stagnant, stalemate and even deteriorated. Now, I have begun to think H is PlanBing ME! Maybe he is even trying to kill of the remaining love he has for me. <P>I am just so tired of all this. My H is off cheating and giving to the OW everything that belongs to me and my children - his time, attention and love. I am home being a faithful and supporting wife who has NO HUSBAND and right now, my children have no father! <P>If I divorced my H and he continued with the OW and showed no interest in me - what have I lost or gained? Lost nothing, because this would have happened eventually and gained by getting this over and done with once and for all by me.In other words, I have shortened my own suffering.<BR> <BR>So, I am still assessing what he is going to do, if anything, over the next few weeks. Even a starving man needs crumbs to survive....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Only a minute now...you know...my big Dicovery Day Anniversary party about to begin. (Really a video and a cuddle on the couch with my H who doesn't even know its D-day) but it is a Victory Party for me, all the same.<P>I will really think about this and get back to you. I'm sorry things are going so poorly.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Desiree,<P>Long time no talk to!<P>I'm sorry you're so discouraged about your marriage. I don't blame you. It's been very rough this entire time. Personally, I'm amazed you've lasted this long. You're one of those people on the forum that everyone looks up to with tremendous respect! <P>I'll tell you the difference between divorce and Plan B. You do Plan B when you're not willing to give up yet. Divorce is when you give up.<P>You've gone through a lot, and your husband seems not to be willing to reconcile. However, I think your Plan A has gotten you some good results. But only you can tell for sure if you can't do it anymore.<P>You asked why you should bother to do Plan B. What will it gain you? Plan B is for people who just can't take the pain of continued betrayal in the face of their Plan A efforts. They need to cut themselves off from the pain, in order to keep their sanity. But they still feel hopeful that eventually their spouse will see the error of their ways. Desiree, have you seen any signs of hope recently? I think you have. But your husband is still continuing to see the OW, having his cake and eating it too. Your situation is tailor-made for Plan B.<P>By doing Plan B, it will cause your husband to see what it would be like without you in his life. It would give you the opportunity to see his reaction from total cutoff. What do you have to lose? More time, that's all.<P>Now, on the other hand, if you think it's completely a lost cause, then forget Plan B. Go for the divorce. But I don't think you've completely given up yet.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I guess he must be having fun, because he wouldn't continue to do this if it wasn't fun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You know that's not necessarily true. Lots of other things might be keeping him away. Guilt. Anger. Denial. Depression. Any number of other things. Yeah, it could be fun too, but don't rule out the other stuff.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am afraid I would go into PlanB and this same crap would continue to happen and eventually, I will have to be the one to file for the divorce, because my H, isn't going to do it to keep me engaged and him still having us both.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but then at least you'd be <B>sure</B>, and you'd know you tried everything.<P>Well, Desiree, the whole thing is completely your decision... Just thought I'd point out the benefits of Plan B and the difference between it and Plan D...<P>take care,<BR>--andy

RMA,<P>I read your post and I am confused. If you still love him and want to remain married, then why file for divorce? Second, you are sort of in a Plan B right now aren't you?<P>Finally, I must say you may be right. A divorce may be the way to go. I know this is MB but if you don't feel anything for him and are ready to date, then maybe your love is not as deep as you say in these posts. Further, since you had your EA did you and H ever really recover? Is it possible you are still in this out of guilt for what you did to marriage and family? While I think guilt is a marvelous motivator, it cannot be the final reason for doing something. Guilt should inspire us to really reexamine what we have done, are doing, or might do.<P>I wish I could give you some answer, but you know this is really is your decision. You may also be right that you H cannot forgive you and feels that this marriage is destroyed already. Is possible that a remarriage turns the page so to speak. Anyway, I hope that you can make a decision and make peace with it. <P>I will tell you something though. In may life I have found that I really never had to make a major decision. It was always made for me. By that I mean, the decision was still there to be made, but the data, information, and or situation was such that I was nuts not to go in a certain direction. Are you there yet? If not you are not ready for this major decision. I feel that it will be made for you when the time is right.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Roll Me Away,<P>As you know, I am speaking from the point of view of being divorced. I really wish I had found this site before my D. Now, I have to look back and think, if my H had more time to consider this, I might not be where I am today. He is really showing signs of unhappiness now, but I feel he thinks things have gone too far. If you went to Plan B, that could show him what reality would be like. What would a few more months be in this whole mess? I agree with Airheart, then you could look back and think you did absolutely everything you could.<P>AD

Desiree,<P>I getting over yesterday's debacle.<P>I now our situations are different.<BR>Now my W is pushing hard for as fast as a divorce as is possible. I am wholeheartedly against it since I know the OM will leave her. Maybe you don't have this feeling anymore... that the OW or your H will separate!<P>When I spoke to Steve Harley in my second session (I'm scheduling a third)... this was a critical question Steve asked me... i.e. "do I really feel the OM will leave her?"<P>I honestly believe if I told him... "no", "probably not", or "I'm not sure"...<BR>He would have put me on Plan B. I will ask him that the next session I have with him.<P>Personally... I think you should go for the 2 years. Any 6mo/18mo, 12mo/12mo, 18mo/6mo type combination of Plans A/B totalling 2 years gives enough time for the pattern to be set. Yes... sometimes the entirity of the affair is only a few months, and sometimes many years... To deny your life from a healthy relationship is wrong... but to really know... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#3.) The (betrayed) spouse needs to know that he/she had done his/her best to save their marriage. (page 76 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...<P>2 years seems arbitrary... but only you know the exact number of months. Whatever <B>that</B> number of months is for you go for it... If it is not clear... go by the 2 year guideline.<P>I'd say don't give up on Plan B entirely...<BR>You can build yourself during that Plan B...<BR>You are energetic... and vital... and have so much to give (and receive) from those who love you. In the tail end of Plan B... obviously... get back into the relationship finding mode... who knows... you might find even "me" around that time... <P>Hey... the decision is yours... about Plan B or D...<BR>Take in everything we say...<BR>We won't question your final decision...<BR>We love you too much to for that <P>Jim...

Hi Desiree,<P>I'm not feeling very positive myself today, so I'll have trouble playing the devil's advocate. <P>But, from what I have read about Plan B, it really is designed for OUR benefit. It's a safe place to go, while we disconnect our feelings from our H's, & rebuild our self esteem. That will take some time. Granted, it also can have an added benefit of being a wakeup call to them, so that they can see first hand what life will be like without us. But, that's not the primary reason for Plan B, as I see it.<P>Do you really think it would be a good idea to get involved with someone else while you are so emotionally vulnerable? You mentioned wanting to move on, & missing male companionship. I, for one, am very fearful of that right now, because I know I have the signs of "victim" written all over me. I also know that there are men out there who prey on women in this type of situation and will take advantage of them. That's the last thing you need right now.<P>Remember, the primary goal of Plan A was to leave a positive impression for when you move on to Plan B. And, Plan B is where you go once you begin to start losing the love for your H.<P>From what you have just said, especially regarding divorce, it sounds to me like Plan B is where you need to be heading.

<B>Andy,</B><P>Thanks for reading. I am trying to "think aloud" here. I continue to have zero clarity about my own situation.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'll tell you the difference between divorce and Plan B. You do Plan B when you're not willing to give up yet. Divorce is when you give up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have NOT given up <B>WANTING</B> to be married to my H. Remember when we had our date 3 1/2 weeks ago, my H told me that he knew I COULD and WOULD forgive him - he just doesn't want to forgive me. It just looks to me like I <B>should</B> give up, not that I want to give up. My counselor challenged me to pit my feelings against reality - "Desiree, in view of the REALITY of the situation, how can you still believe your H will come back?" My answer: "I 'feel' it inside me." He advised me to assess "feelings" against reality, because our feelings can fool us. I am attempting to sort this all out, andy. You know I continue to be confused about how to read this and what to do.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Desiree, have you seen any signs of hope recently? I think you have. But your husband is still continuing to see the OW, having his cake and eating it too. Your situation is tailor-made for Plan B.<P>By doing Plan B, it will cause your husband to see what it would be like without you in his life. It would give you the opportunity to see his reaction from total cutoff. What do you have to lose? More time, that's all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I think there was some little hope: our date was fun, but he never followed up. Then, I saw him before Christmas and all that -divorce yes one day and divorce no the next day. Then, I had to go through the holidays with no peep from him. The kids heard nothing. The oldest went over to where he is living and spent time on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. He never called the others at all. <P>Now, son has oral surgery and not even a call to see about him? This has hurt me more than anything. I feel so beat down by this whole thing. My suffering is one thing, but my kids hurt is quite another. They are older...not young ones, but they hurt just the same.<P>So, the answer is yes and no. I no longer can tell the difference. He gives me a ray of hope and then crushes it away......<P>I will wait somemore to assess if there is really something here. That is why I am planning on waiting a few more weeks to see if he will do ANYTHING at all. I may just have to call Steve Harley next week...<P>Thanks, andy <P>Desiree<P><B>Just Learning,</B> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you still love him and want to remain married, then why file for divorce? Second, you are sort of in a Plan B right now aren't you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I was in a modified PlanB and after talking to Steve Harley 3 times, moved back to planA. I <B>DO</B> love my H very much, but in the face of all this...does he love me?? Why file for divorce - Here is a BIG ONE: <B>TO STOP THE PAIN</B>. Pure and simple, to begin the real healing process.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I know this is MB but if you don't feel anything for him and are ready to date, then maybe your love is not as deep as you say in these posts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I do feel love for my H - I continue to love him right now. I am not ready for another relationship - I know that, but in all honesty, I could use a little companionship right now. The loneliness is excrutiating. I have lots of friends and family and do alot of things for fun, but it is not the same. On the other hand, being married has probably saved me from doing anything I would immediately regret. I am not loose by any standard, and am fighting myself here, if you understand. Even a kiss or a handhold would go so very far......But, I am vulnerable and I definitely recognize that, too.<P>About my EA, it was brief and never mentioned between H and I until his affair was discovered. I truly mean this - I never thought of it as anything more than an infatuation. We never met outside of work, the OM never kissed me except on the cheek once and on the forehead once. He never touched me sexually. Held my hand one day. But, there was a definite emotional bond and a sexual undercurrent. He saw me at work and twice asked me to have sex with him. I turned him down and that ended everything after the second turn down. The main attraction for me was his emotional support when my Dad had the stroke. His main attraction to me was sexual. My H says he suspected me from the beginning and he suspected for a period of 18 months and thought it was a PA the whole time (the EA lasted less than 3 months). This is what is between us. My H has never dealt with all of this and won't. Then, of course, now H has the OW and those feelings he has to deal with too.<P>I am remorseful for EVER hurting my H. I would never like to hurt anyone. I am remorseful for being so stupid as to not see my self get sucked in. I have forgiven myself, and measure my H by the same yardstick...if you are sorry and work to do better, than I forgive you. I am that way about anything. However, my H admits he measures me with a different yardstick than himself. He feels "OK" about his affair, because he is inlove and he feels bad about my EA, because I didn't keep him NUMBER ONE in my life. I pointed out the discrepancies here, and oh, well.......<P>Thanks for responding, <P>Roll Me Away <P><BR> <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Hey Desiree,<P>A buddy told me once that life is full of choices. You decide what you want, or at least what you would like and work towards that goal. There is no warranty that life will be good.<P>I believe that you know what you would like to happen in this situation. We married the dumb sh!its so of course we would like to stay with them at least until we are dead or seriously injured. <P>I was a rotten lousy H and will readily admit that. Can you say [censored]! I neglected her big time and am paying for it now. I have learned so much here and will be a GREAT H! in the future. I wish it would be with Val. I can't get over some of the issues. <P>You ask why Plan B vs Divorce. Are you in a hurry to marry someone else? Do you not like your last name? Do you want to pay higher insurance rates because you can't get the multi-car discount after the divorce? Do you want to go shopping for a partner at this time in life? Not saying that we are old and decrepid, but, I don't have the time to find another W. I'm much too busy!<P>I'm going to be 40 this year. WOW, that hurt to say. I'm not into the bar scene. I cruise the emergency rooms and floors for nurses. There is nothing I like more than women in white with colored underwear. Sorry<P>Unfortunately, I still have feelings for Val. I'm not sure where I am going with this but I believe that you are as confused as I am. <P>The worst part of what we are feeling and going through is that there is not a definate answer. It's not like 2+2=13857. <P>Take a break from the marriage issues. Heal RMA now. She is a GREAT person and needs some attention.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Zippy

<B>AD,</B><P>Yes, I should look at your situation and learn. I am struggling with this - am I holding onto an empty paper bag or a bag full of green bananas that just need a little more time to ripen??<P>I am trying to map a strategy in my head so I have sufficient time to think about it - the pros and cons of doing PlanB or filing for divorce. I promised myself I would wait at least until around Valentine's before doing anything. The affair will be one year old the last week of Feb., so I felt I should wait at least one year before deciding what to do - PlanB or PlanD. That gives me a month to 6 weeks, to see what H does, if anything here. I will continue in the best PlanA I can do!!!! <P>Look, I was married once very young and already divorced. I know there is no picnic ahead. I can really symapthize with your struggles - they are more heaped onto a very large pile of crap already!<P>But, you, andy and Jim are right - I WILL want to know I did everything possible here. Thanks for the reminders!!<P><B>Jim,</B><P>I knew I'd pull you back in! See...this post was a trick to get YOU re-involved...I knew you wouldn't be able to resist helping me! <P>I know me and I know PlanB or PlanD will be hard for me, because I want the idiot back!! I know I should go to PlanB and I know I probably want to go to PlanB. But, I also know I dread going through more of this and maybe still coming out empty-handed in the end. I honestly believe both me and the OW are meeting H's needs, and that is why He doesn't want to divorce me. I guess I owe it to myself to see if the OR flops once I am out of the picture. But, can I face it if it doesn't -to think I self-inflicted more time to this and still didn't end up with my H??<P>I am just evaluating options aloud here. And, I also know I am NOT ready for a real relationship at this time. I would only be a TAKER, not a partner, and that would not be fair to anybody...darn! <P>Thanks, Jim, and love you too...Desiree<P><B>sidney,</B><P>After reading yesterday's e-mail, you probably saw this post coming! I know I am probably to the PlanB point. I need to call Steve Harley next week. I am thinking my options aloud.<P><B>Vulnerable</B> - yes, we are. That is one of the reasons, not the only one, that I put my wedding ring back on before Christmas. I needed to remind myself I was still married - if in name, only. I am bound and determined that if we end this relationship, I will have honored my H in every way possible, save my one biggest regret - the EA. However, no other man has ever touched me and even if my H doesn't believe that, in my heart I know it is true. I will not dishonor him while I am his wife, even if he doesn't want me. I guess I love him still too much to care about hurting him in any way.<P>sidney, you and Diana always say what I need to hear when I need to hear it! My big sisters who keep me straight!!!<P>Thanks and luv ya, Desiree <P> <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Oh, <B>Tim,</B><P>I was just gonna post a new thread to see if you were lurking! I have been missing you. I am really wondering how your thinking is going these days? Any clarity of thought as to your own situation??? Isn't it amazing how we can read someone else's post and just "see", but we are "living" our story and can't see squat!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You ask why Plan B vs Divorce. Are you in a hurry to marry someone else? Do you not<BR>like your last name? Do you want to pay higher insurance rates because you can't get<BR>the multi-car discount after the divorce? Do you want to go shopping for a partner at<BR>this time in life?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>All right..enough already! YIKES...my own vulnerability is splashed all over the screen..even I see it! No, I don't want a relationship at this time. I have nobody, I don't want anybody...well, I do...it has been almost a year...but not really. No REAL relationship. As I posted earlier, I would only be using someone and that would be wrong.<P>OK, I will work to deflect my energy here...I may have to shampoo the carpets tomorrow or something equally time-consuming and frenzied. Maybe I will go upstairs and clean out the kids' rooms - THAT would be quite a chore! <P>I was supposed to start back working on the machines at the healthclub today, and H was there, so I skipped. I'll get up early, go to church and then go to the healthclub and workout (H is a late riser) and just keep busy all day.<P>So, what ARE you thinking about your situation?????? <P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Desiree,<P>I'm way late to all the fun here at MB. I have had major comp problems. Mine is in the shop so I bought a new one until mine is fixed. I know , I know I a sm very cumpulsive and obsessive...lol after all I am a drug addict...lol<P>This thread really got me thinking about things.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am just so tired of all this. My H is off cheating and giving to the OW everything that belongs to me and my children - his time, attention and love. I am home being a faithful and supporting wife who has NO HUSBAND and right now, my children have no father!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That showa how dificult plan-a is. I struggle staying focused everyday. Yet as had as it is I commit zero LBs. R is haveing her cake and eating it right now. She is getting<B> all</B> of her needs met, and I have to meey my owm. Can you say this sucks louder than me.<P>My understanding of plan-b is to show our fine spouces what it would be like w/out us at all. I am no where ready for that. However it will in all likely hood be necessary. How bout another this sucks.<P>I still love my sick little W and am willing to endure this crap. When I absolutely can't take it then plan-b...then that nasty D word.<P>Like Tim said I'm not ready to play the field.<P>Remember a couple of weeks ago I posted about a friend thast means well but is full of bad advice? Yesterday she asked if I was going to start dateing, I sad no, she asked why, and in the most condesending tone I said <B>I'M MARRIED</B>. She looked at me like I was crazy.<P>Are all of us here at MB the only people left that have any morals or sence of commitment? I hope not.<P>Anyhow hang in there some days are better than others. Chaulk this up to a bad one.<BR>Tell the "talk talk man" to go away.<P>Hang in there.<P>Bill <P><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

<B>Bill,</B><P>So what are you gonna do with 2 computers when you get the old one out of the shop?????? How can I talk, we have 2 sitting on two desks side by side! I am on the old one that got struck by lightning...the new one works lots better though!<P>Yes, you are right - I am struggling to stay focused. Today, when I said my daily prayers I didn't even pray fom my H, told God I just didn't care to pray for him today. That sucks, too. <P>Hey, understand about your lady friend...my friends want to pair me off and then I have to deal with that. NO ONE understands why I am hanging in here. It is like betting on the 1000:1 horse.<P>I don't feel bad about my counselor. He is concerned about my welfare. He is pro-marriage - a certified marriage counselor. But, he also has my best interests at heart. He says he espouses alot of the Harley's concepts, but not all of them. I think he thinks PlanA is good, but PlanB is for the birds. His thinking is this:<P>If you and your H get a divorce, if he really decides later that he misses you and wants you back or the OR falls apart and he wants you back, he will find you and pursue you.<P>I have to admit, I can relate to this line of thinking, as it seems to spare that extra time suffering. I am considering this, too, as I decide what to do on my one year mark which is fast approaching.<P>God, did I ever think I would be in this situation one year later????????????? NO<P>By the way, I went to the range and shot my .22 all by myself! I asked for a range master and they didn't offer that service unless your first time to use a gun. I asked the guy to keep an eye on me via the camera and I did OK. I was nervous only for a minute and did just fine!!<P>Now, I know I am supposed to clean the gun after each firing. What to do??? I forgot to ask the guy. I have all the stuff, just don't know what to do. And, I WON'T call my H to ask him!<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Desiree,<P>First off, you have to get a bigger gun... all a .22 is going to do is piss someone off...lol<BR>I got Robin a crome plated .45, she loves it. Once you learn they're easy to handle.<P>As far as cleaning goes, is it a revolver or an automatic?<P>If it is a revolver it's a piece of cake. I use this stuff called Rem-Oil, it is made by Remington. Get a gun cleaning rod that has a brass brush and some cleaning patches. You can get them by caliber. First spay the gun w/ some Rem-Oil then go through each cylinder w/ the brush depending on how heavy the burned powder is you will need to do this until all the crud is lifted from the metal. Takw a soft clothe and wipe down the weapon, then goe through each cylinder and barrel w/the patches until the weapon is dry. Thats it.<P>If it is an auto. there should be a lever on the slide, it will only flip one way. This will release barrel and slide from th frame. It may take some muscle to do this. Slide the slide off the frame, the barrel should come with it. There will be a spring holdind the barrel in the slide, take out the spring and barrel should fall out. This is a little different for each brand of gun, however they all follow the same basic principle. Sray the barrel inside and out w/ Rem-Oil and go throughit w/brush. You may need to do over the ejection port w/brush also to removevthe crud buildup there. Wipe all of the surfaces w/a soft cloth until clean and dry. Run a patch through the barrel until it is dry. Put the weapon back togetrher the way you took it aprt, you will have to remember exactly how it came apart not all the parts are mated exactly together.<P><B>MAKE SURE WEAPON IS UNLOADED BEFORE YOU START</B><P>You probably knew that, but I would be remiss if I didn't remind you.<P>How well did you shoot?<BR>Did you feel your resentment leave you each time you squeezed the trigger? I do.<P>How is your son recovering from his wisdom teeth extaction? I know exactly how he feels.<BR>When I had mine done I got my pain pills, a case of beer and a bag of weed andheld up at my aPARTMENT FOR A WEEK... I think...lol<BR>Sorry about the war storie. I was pretty bad off then.<P>I am just going to return this computor to circuit city when mine is fixed...lol<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

OK, Desiree, let's consider some facts:<P>A small, but significant percentage of couples who divorce remarry. However, following the Harley methods to the nth degree has resulted a large and significant success rate amongst people whose marriages have suffered at the "hands" of infidelity! Which group do you want to be in?<P>1 year is a short time. My husband has supposedly (according to the slug) been involved in his affair for 4 years. And we have not been intimate for the better part of 2 years (so stop complaining ). AND it has been nearly 16 months since "discovery" and 14 since he moved out.<P>And I'm still on the Plan A wagon. You can do this, Desiree. You can.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

Hey, Sweetie! I'm always late these days.<P>Looks like with the help of some wonderful and wise people, you've just about gotten these things figured out, huh?<P>You know my opinion! I'm a Plan A fanatic! I do understand. I'd go WEEKS without a word, no calls or visits to d, nothing to go on. No need to Plan B. He was Plan B-ing me.<P>Divorce only if you're ready to call it quits for good. There's always a chance that there will be a remarriage, but for some reason I just feel that, if he's not insisting, that may close a door in his mind that he can't re-open. Not that he doesn't want to, but all those crazy emotions, guilt, confusion (Heavens, there are too many to list here) may keep him from having the strength.<P>None of us can really know the crazy reasons for their behavior. And if I rememeber right, you've only been in a "guided" Plan A for a little while. <P>Setting dates may be what you need to do. It doesn't work for me. I made myself a promise a long time ago, every morning when I wake up, I'd think about this junk for a few minutes and decide what I wanted to do today....stay in A, go to B, give up. And that's what I'd do. I don't really think in terms of what HE'S gonna do anymore - ok, so a little, but not much. Mostly, it's what I want, what I can handle, if I'm ready for whatever. That makes that day pretty easy to handle. I'm not looking at long-term - nothing. I feel sure I may wake up one day and say, it's enough for me. When I do, that's the day I change.<P>Hang in there, ok? You know inside what you need for you. Follow your instincts.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{Desiree}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Lori

RMA,<P>I think you need to think really carefully about if you are thinking D just because you are so mad at your H and so hurt and you want to let him know. You want to get his attention. After how he ignored you and your kids over the holidays anyone can understand you being really hurt and mad. But don't shoot yourself in the foot. I might be wrong, who knows. Just really think hard about why you are not willing to Plan A or B for a little longer instead of divorcing.<P>Del

<B>Bill,</B><P>Thanks for the instructions - it is a revolver and I will follow your instructions and try to clean it later today. It is ALREADY unloaded.<P>Surprise: I was pretty accurate at 15 feet - maybe 70% in the middle of the target. At 25 feet, I'm not so good - my eyesight - you know, old age!! Also, I had touble figuring out when to fire - my H explained I should fire on the downward movement of the outstretched arm, becuase it moves around. Don't know if I explained that right or not.<P>Son is doing nicely from the wisdom teeth - THANKS for asking! We have been calling him Alvin the Chipmunk, though! LOL!<P>Glad you are doing so well, Bill. You have travelled a really hard road and now this is probably one of the biggest stresses you may ever have to deal with and are staying sober. That is quite an accomplishment and I applaud your growth and resolve!!! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP!! <P>Also, HAHAHA about the computer - shame on you, you bad boy! HAHAHA!<P><B>terri,</B><P>YIKES - 4 YEARS????? God, I don't know if I can do that. YOU are determined!!! I can't whine about my 1 little year, put in those terms. At least, not to you!! LOL!!!<P>Tell me what keeps you going. How do you keep from getting discouraged??? Is it the same "feeling" inside that I can't seem to shake that my H and I will eventually get back together?? <P><B>Momma Lori,</B><P>"When Momma Lori talks...peole listen!" Remember that old E.F. Hutton commercial???<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I made myself a promise a long time ago, every morning when I wake up, I'd think about this junk for a few minutes and decide what I wanted to do today....stay in A, go to B, give up. And that's what I'd do. I don't really think in terms of what HE'S gonna do anymore - ok, so a little, but not much.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is alot of wisdom here, Lori. One day at a time...isn't that the hallmark of ALL recovery programs?????? OK, I will try to remember this each day.<P>The second part about not thinking in twerms of HIM...I don't do so good on this part. I ALWAYS think in terms of him. I am focusing on myself, but still have him uptmost in my mind, too. And, yes, I just started doing a GOOD planA...before that, I thought I was, but Steve showed me where I wasn't sometimes.<P>Truthfully, I am just a sharp contrast of colors in every respect. A Gemini...<P>I am reading the daily meditations book that Diana recommended, also based on the 12 step recovery plan. It is really helping me to remember all these things daily. Thanks for helping me to sort my mixed-up thinking.<P>Yes, I know what I instictfully need - a 2x4, a frying pan and a dozen very large frozed salmon!!! <P><B>Delphi,</B><P>Wow, you got me here. Is this a passive- aggressive thinking exercise because I am hurt and mad at H????????????? Might be. Right now, I AM hurt and angry at my H. No, I sure don't want to shoot myself in the foot.<P>I continue to pray for patience - I really need more!<P>Thanks,<P>Desiree<P>[b] <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Well, I'm late to this party and don't have too much to add that hasn't already been said.<P>First, there's only one good reason to filing for divorce. You have to want a divorce. Any other reason is a bad one. I've read plenty of posts of others who have filed for divorce without wanting one and inevitably they have regretted it.<P>Second, I don't think there's a correlation between filing for divorce and lessening pain. Letting go and losing love are emotional responses, not legal ones. Filing for divorce will not make any of us lose our love for the spouse. Conversely, when the divorce is granted, it doesn't mean that love and pain are over either. I've also seen plenty of spouses pining over their exes after the decree is granted. It all means nothing since it's a function of the legal system, not an emotional function.<P>The one thing that filing for divorce does is remove some of the element of hope, although I'm not convinced of this either. I've also seen plenty of people hope that the divorce process will make the spouse snap out of it. It hardly happens.<P>Now, to turn all this around, I sure know what you're going through. I'm now separated 16 months and wondering if this is ever coming to an end. At some point, you just want to say "I'm cutting my losses and moving on". It stops mattering whether the situation is salvageable or not. But I stick with my earlier comment, filing for divorce does not bring an end to this situation. All it does is get the legal ball rolling. It also introduces alot more adversity and conflict into the relationship, which pretty much guarantees that your relationship will only go one way - down.<P>Think about this. At the Divorce Busters Board, Michele Weiner-Davis is the queen of asking this question "if you had filed for divorce, what would you be doing differently? Do it." In other words, why let this legal point dictate changes in your behavior that you could do without the legal process. If you need to let go and move on, do it (Plan B or some variation). It buys you more time. Since this is all a big waiting game anyway (you'll make little progress until that affair blows-up), what will help you wait longer? It's hard to do Plan A for a long time. I did Plan B for five months and found it to be very easy and liberating, after the first couple of weeks. It helps you focus on yourself.<P>Best of luck and keep in touch.

Man I must be crazy!! I have spent a thousand dollars this weekend on stuff I don't realy need.<P>I call it retail recovery. I sure hope Robin doesn't find out..<P>I do feel a lttle better, and I will get my six hundren back from this computor. That isn't part of the thousand if you count that it's closer to fifteen hundred.<P>I just had to tell someone thanks.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>