I have been separated since march 1999. In all this time EH does not set up kids arrangements with me, but makes the arrangements trhough the kids, expecting me to "just be there" when the kids are dropped off...woe betide the if they are late when he has arranged to pick them up!!! They are 13 and 16 so i do not have to be home the minute they come home, but I cannot go out with female friends until the wee hours even if I wanted to WHEN THEY ARE WITH HIM, as I never know when they will be home on Sat night or Sunday am, pm or after dinner!!!<BR>He gets alternate weekends and one night a week for dinner.<P>I also am asked "Can I go out with dad?" even though there are court decisions on this but I do not want to always be the "bad one" to say no, because you have exams in 4 days and have to study, or you promised a friend you would go out or you have a preexisting arrangement. But this is what it is.<P>I tried to explain to my 16 year old that when they are with their father, I am not responsible for them, but the minute they step in the door of my home, whether i am home or not, I am responsible for their welfare and this is why I should be told when they will be home. Still does not work....EH wants to make sure that i am "on call" as I have been since becoming a mother.<P>Friends it would give me immense pleasure to be on call for them 24 hours a day 7 days a week , but now when they are with their father I am still on call, "just incase" This is not sharing parenting (as I do ALL the child centred activities, car pooling etc.etc. It is not about this.) It is about common decency...and I know he is so "out of it" that the last thought would be to be considerate of me in any way whatsoever.<P>It makes me so mad that when he does pick them up, he calls them to wait outside as "he is on his way" and will not get out of the car to ring the doorbell. When I have told them this is unacceptable especially now that it is so cold, they wait at the door until they see the car and then run without saying goodbye. When asked they told me " Well dad will scream at us if late" I have told them that until they say goodbye properly, they cannot go, We all get a little crazy at this behaviour. In other words they are manipulated into a frenzy when he is on his way so that normal behaviour is gone, and this makes me angry at thier behaviour and of course at EH who has created all this.<P>Sorry...I know this is not marriagebuilding, but venting, but my children have been so hurt. My daughter met someone and told them when they told her she was being immature,. "But you should see how my dad behaves, " <P><BR>

I agree 100% that he is using this to manipulate you. How to fix it WITHOUT hurting the kids? Can the 4 of you sit down and have a family meeting? Can you even talk to him? What you need, what the kids need, what he wants, how can we work this out-compromise til everyone feels they have won.<BR>Maybe some of those here with older kids can give some input.

cl, thanks for the reply. I cannot talk to him about it at all as when I did from march to June I was told "you are too controlling and you do not control me any more." The marriage counselor tried to explain this to him etc., but he still did not get it and we are past the point of all this. In sept at the first case conference with my lawyer his lawyer and myself, we discussed this and he said "yes I will call" and did once, but did but wanted to hear only how he was wonderful and all I was prepared to discuss were kids arrangements which i did. He wants me to be his friend which is not possible so will not contact me. Hefails to understand that I manage, not control the kids arrangements and my arrangements and I have a huge monthly calendar on the fridge with everyone's schedule so we can all see this. He has no clue about this and never took any part in this family management but left it always for me to do for all of us.<P>I have never told the kids they could not be with him unless they had an arrangement OR wanted to be with him to be away from a sibling. I told them that this was not a choice to run away from a situation as this was an easy exit (as their father had chosen, but if they really wanted to spend quality time with their dad then I would discuss this. Naturally this has not come up again. <BR>I do have twin sons of 19 who are away at school and they do not understand a lot of what is going on in terms of my "resonsibility" towards the 2 younger kids. One of the reasons for this is that if they do then they have to examine all facets of their father's behaviour of not only the infidelity, but of running away from the 2 younger kids, and this they do not want to confront.<P>Thanks for the input.

Oh boy frustrating! <BR>Hmmm, another tactic. No one seems to see that you have a need for time management. How bout cell phones? If you and both kids could be in constant communication, it might ease this issue a bit. <BR>It sounds contrary at first, but think about it a bit. There would be no excuse for not knowing what is going on, or anyone!<BR>We have a cell phone plan thru airtouch where the two kid phones were free, and the monthly charge is $10.00 for an unlimited call home/call other cell phones plan. <BR>This way they would always be able to reach you-if you are out with the girls and they want to head home from dad's early, then they can call you and ask permission. If is is not convenient, tell them so and make them wait a couple hours. <BR>The picking up is annoying, but really an issue that is not yours. It is between the kids and dad. <BR>

My stbx is acting the same way. Although our girls are only 7&9 they are used as pawns by him. Like yours, my H has the girls one night a week and every other weekend. He is very exact on the times when he picks them up. It has to be on Wed. at 5:00pm. There is no variation to this. He is suppose to have them until 8:00. But that is not the case. Sometimes it is only 45 minutes later when he is dropping them off. I too must never leave. Because he has been known to drop them off and be half way down the street before he notices that they are still outside, because god forbid I went to the store. If I am not home he drives them around the town and lectures them on how awful their mother is and how I must not care about them because I am not here. He very rarely comes and gets them on Fri. anymore. He usually comes on Sat and then wants to drop them off Sun. morning. I would love to go shopping or meet friends for the afternoon (without children) but it is impossible for me to leave because I have no idea when he will be dropping them off. Since I am not allowed to know his cell phone number, I can't call him. At his apartment the ringer is turned off of his phone so my calls go unanswered. He will not allow me to talk to the girls when he has them because he considers it "his" time with them, yet they never do anything but sit around and watch him watch sports and drink beer. Even though they are only 7&9 they love to go to sleep overs and do want to join after school activities.....but they can't because if they are not home to answer the phone when he calls he throws a fit and gets their mom (me) in trouble. Like you I love my girls and hate to see them hurting so bad, but there is nothing I can do about it. I have tried talking to him about it but since there is a mutual restraining order he seems to think I am bugging him and makes up stuff. So it is safer if I don't even bother. He has done this for months now and the girls are so frustrated. They hate going with him and cry so much. He makes everything so hard for them and me. I hope one day he understands what he is doing, but after this long it seems he will never understand. He had them for 8 days over the holiday break. He fed them once a day.....they only took a shower once....and they were drug to every "family" eating place that served beer. Now he is fighting for custody because he feels that "I" have alienated them from him. He has done that himself. Now he is lying about stuff just to win. But even if he wins custody, he will not win. Because those girls will be the ones that lose. Again it is all about him...SELFISH<BR>Nancy

Thanks cl and mantal for your input.<P>The cellphone is not an option as I do not want my children to have these. They are overindulged as it is. <P>I had a GREAT weekend. My second Sat night on my own since the brainless wonder left. Went for dinner with a girl friend last night and woke up early to go and play tennis and workout. NO meals to prepare etc. etc. which was a nice holiday.<P>My younger kids do understand and my S called last night and told me he would be home at 3 pm and so would his sister. <BR>Daughter called while I was out this morning to say she would be home at 5pm and that she hoped that I was enjoying my time for me away from the responsibility!!!! So they do understand but since they are considered minor children, why does the EH not call to let me know? Whay a jerk<BR>

Good luck on the H calling to ask/tell about what time they are coming home. Sometimes my children will call at 10.00 am Sunday morning to ask if dad can drop them off early. If I ask when they think that would be the girls ask him and he says well just forget it then of she has to know an exact time. Or sometimes I have told them that I was just walking out the door and that I will be home in a couple hours. Then he tells them....see your mom has more important things to do then be with you. I just love the way they tell the girls/kids what time they are dropping them off without any consideration for the other parent. Just goes to show.......

My stbx is doing some of the same things. Last weekend she had the kids for 2 nites, the first time since she left in July. Even then she didn't spend much time with them. She along with om took them shopping including one of my D's friends and let them go off by themselves around the mall. After that she dropped D off at her friend's for a few hours. Meanwhile my S was stuck with his mother and om.<P>Stbx worked this weekend and saw only our d for about an hour. That was because she had to take our d to her basketball game as I had to take our s to his soccer game.<P>She talked to them eack about 2 mins each day this weekend.<P>She hasn't said anything about this week, but she doesn't tell me anything. She tells me by speaking to the kids in front of me. I would imagine she would want them this week sometime as she is going to Fl for a week with om to meet his mother.<P>I wonder if my stbx will take vacation if i get a chance to go away for a week? I doubt it. I'll have to get her parents to watch the kids for that!<P>Also venting her, she has only cooked for the kids 3-4 times in 6 months and the only time she takes the kids is when is off of work so its not like she is too busy. She either drops them off for me to feed or takes them out to eat.<P>It is sad to see our kids being placed third in priorites behing our spouse, om and/or job.<P>Bob

Maybe not the kids, but it wouldn't hurt to get yourself a pager or cell phone so when they come home, you'll know. I think your EH needs to be more responsible, yes, but in the meantime, you have to do what you have to do, so you can have a life for yourself.<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>

mental, RWD and jamie-lee, thanks for the input<BR>when I tried to post a repy to you I could not get your messages underneath this to rfer to, so I am not able to answer each point individually.<P>I also took my D computer away as she came back from her father and laid into me with very abusive language etc. and the situation is all my fault. Anyway she has calmed down...no computer in her room and it is conected to outlets and i am on the floor typing this.<BR>EH will never call to let me know, but the kids do, well sort of. My 16 year old has exams on Friday onward but "chilled with his dad" and I then had to edit an essay, help him learn lines for drama etc...and all this wa supposed to be done before he went yesterday and he came home 3 hours later than he had told me so of course I had akk thisa to do including getting daughter ready for school tomorrow. <P>Itwill work itself out in that the kids will understand how to be responsible and whatever he does is his problem He will always be messed up, my kids and i will not.<P>I do have a cell phone so can call in to my home to call the kids if they are home, or they cn get hold of me. I will not call EH's place unless a dire emergency<P>Since the kids are 13 and 16 they do not need "baby sitting" so I do get out, BUT the kids have to know exactly where I am, who I am with and when the phone goes, I have to tell them who I talk to!!!! There are no secrets...but I am not entitled to any "private life" without having to set these boundaries and explain o the kids that I lead my life in a way that is not confusing for them, but i do not need to tell them EVERYTHING about my social life!!! Everything is so confusing for these kids.<P>Anyway tomorrow is another day....... <BR><p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited January 09, 2000).]

wilbok, I am a bit confused...you are angry at h or you are angry with the kids wanting mom to be 100% available? <BR>Were you not 100% available before? And if your house is like mine, then my kids are involved, they like to know what is up, who I will be seeing, where I went. Just as I like to know from them. <BR>Instead of being upset, lets try to find some positives here. Your teens are talking to you, they are interested in your life. They may not show it in the way you want, and it comes out sounding like the inquisition. But many parents of teens would be thrileed just to have a conversation!! I call that abundance, not a pain in the rear. My kids in college still know that they can reach me 100% of the time. I am the mom, always will be. I always have a pager and cell phone. <BR>Me suspects that you would like a shared parenting arrangement...which sounds like it should be 50%? But you are not dealing with a mentally stable person, so you get to keep the 100%! The kids are okay, keep guiding them and they will catch on to your way. It is the h that is being a turd. <BR>Look at this as someting special instead of a chore. Sometimes we just need to change our persepctive and the answers are there.<BR>

Willbok,<BR>It sounds to me like its tough love time for your kids. Why do you have to help them when they come home? Remind them of their responsibilities, and then leave them to them. They should be responsible for their grades, not you. A few bad grades hopefully will awaken them. <P>They are using you as they know MOM will be their to help them and dad will be the good time parent. Tell them that if they come home at a agreed upon time(with father) then you will be glad to help them. But if they are late, then you already have plans.<P>Then either they will have dad help them or they will return on time or they will get it done before they go.<P>I haven't encountered this problem, yet, and when I do this is how I plan to handle it.<P>Best of Luck and God Bless,<P>Bob<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<P>

cl: thankyou for replying. No I am not angry at my kids for their father's behaviour. I do not want a shared parenting plan (never had it before when times were good) and my kids know and state "dad was never THE parent, but the good time guy. Therin lies my resentment know to a lesser extent with each visitqation the kids have. Yes I am on call as a mom and want to be. I have no secrets in my "social life" but during this mess, every thing I have done has come back at me not from the lids who are glad that I did a course one night a week, but through EH lawyer....as if how dare I not be home!!!!And the kids are innocent but EH gets info from them to use against me to "push my buttons" Of course my life is above reproach in terms of i can and do tell my kids all, but when it is used against me without any validity i do get angry. Hope this makes sense. I do not ask my kids what they do when with their dad. If they want to tell me I listen, but do not quiz them.<P>EH continues to use the kids as messengers which I have never done.<BR>I have told the kids that their life with me is our business-they can discuss with therapists etc, but not with their dad, and I do not quiz them or use info as yhis is not in their best interests.<P>I also feel put upon by D who comes back from dad crazed and confused and attacks me "as this situation is all my fault" When she cools down we do not even discuss this as it is not necessary, but it is not pleasant for me or her. <P>RWD<BR>I thank you for your advice. both younger kids have learning disabilities. Dad has NEVER lifted a finger to help with kids stuff and schoolwork. Since these 2 have plummeted in the last 2 years from where they should be, and I have with the schools put so much in place to enable them to learn and to be responsible, I cannot let them screw up as their father could not get them home on time....but last night i did tell my son that i would not do it again as all work etc has to be done before he goes to his dad if he wants my involvement. It will not be there for him if he does not take the responsibility to do the work etc and enlkist my help when it is convenient for both of us.<BR>This has been going on for 9 months (since separation...they knowEHis the "uncle dad" and I am the PARENT...and this is what makes it so hard for them...why do i have boundaries which make life difficult (!) for them while dad does not but yells and screams at them when they get in his way.<P>As I clarify and solidify for them what the boundaries are...and I have always been consistent, it does and has become easier for them.<P><BR>And this is why I now despise EH.....for what he his actions have resulted in in terms of his childrens emotional stability.