I thought of the advice RMA received about H needing to learn, but not from her when I considered my H's current situation.<P>His work and buddies have always been important to him. Well, he was layed off this summer, only, by virtue of circumstances and God's grace, to be kept on the day layoff was to take place. Prior to the announcement, his boss had been riding him for many months. He realized afterwards, why. His position is still intact, but his whole perspective on the job and the company has changed for the worse. <P>He has many years with the company and feels betrayed. Recently, I have heard him use phrases like, "I don't feel safe", "I don't trust this company". He also has little motivation to give the job 100%. He wants to leave but torn by loyalty and is too paralyzed by the "rejection" to fully dedicate effort to a job search.<P>Also, one of his very close friends has also betrayed him on a business deal. He struggling with that also. He wavers between anger and depression, etc. (the roller coaster) <P>I have been very supportive, listening, encouraging, talking, etc. I do so understand the feelings of betrayal. <P>I have felt like H never acknowledged the depth of my pain related to his affairs/betrayals. I feel like if he did, perhaps we could begin to work better together to heal. The betrayal he feels now is similar to my own. W/o "educating", how can I use his situation to help him to see how the emotions relate?<P>Your help is appreciated.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened

Enlightened,<P>I would bet Steve Harley would tell you - you can't. In time, your H will probably make the connection himself. It will hurt you if you try to make it for him - he might see it as an "I told you so."<P>Do you know how many posts here I want to e-mail to my H???? In the beginning, I think I sent him 2. There is not a day that goes by that I don't see something here that he could probably benefit from.<P>Hey, I learned my lesson on the "education" thing. Doesn't mean I won't still struggle with it - old habits are hard to die. But, I am definitely wiser now and have curbed this 90% of the time. Even stopped with the older kids and am seeing some good results there!!<P><BR>You talk about God's grace here. It is truly a gift that your H has been able to endure something that approximates what you felt without having to go through an intimate betrayal. I am hoping that once his anger and intensityof feelings start to subside, that he will make the connection and have a better understanding of what you are feeling!<P>Roll Me Away<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA-<BR>Thanks for the quick response I was thinking of you when I wrote this. <P>I struggle w/the educating and have also curbed it. When he needs support on this, I naturally am compassionate and supportive. I know he's hurt and disappointed and frustrated and .... It's afterward that I think, gee, that's how I feel about your betrayal. I'm following his lead on how he wants to handle the job and friend thing, but oh how I want to use this opportunity. <P>W/o describing all the details, it was definitely God's grace at work here. He was taken to the edge, only to be "saved" It was enough for him to feel the lasting effect. <P>One thing it has done is knocked the job off its pedestal (another "education" issue of mine ) This marriage and family has sacrificed much for his "job" and he now regrets how much he gave up because of it.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened

Truly a blessing in disguise. The fact that he puts it in terms of a "betrayal" is a very good sign. It might even be likely that he is making the connection right now, by the fact that he uses some of the same words.<P>He's been blessed twice, it seems. Blessed that he wasn't shoved off the edge at work,and also blessed you didn't shove him off the edge of your marriage. It is wonderful that he has found renewed commitment to his family through all of this.

Enligthened,<P>You know I always look for the silver lining...maybe then this is the "good" to be found out of this bad experience. The job betrayal, following the marriage betrayal. An opportunity for your H to see more of what is important in life - family first and job second. <P>Maybe all of this had to be experienced, so he could really get the impact. You never know what God has for us in the grand scheme of our lives.<P>You are handling this pretty well. I know it must be worrisome to have this unsettledness about your H's job thrown into the mix. But,it might motivate him to think, and as I always say...thinking comes before action. He might use this opportunity to re-assess his life and current situation, find some lackings and commit to making some needed changes, including finding a different job.<P>Keep praying...your faith will carry you when nothing else will!!!<P>Roll Me Away <BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

When I tried to post, it gave me an error and I kept trying, hence all the extr posts! SORRY!!<p>[This message has been edited by Roll Me Away (edited January 08, 2000).]

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You're both right about the blessing. If nothing else, I wanted him to put job/career into perspective. He is doing some soul-searching here. He has told his boss that he wants something different where he is not responsible for managing others. He just doesn't have the motivation anymore to deal w/their problems. He doesn't feel valued. So he is slowly taking the steps to change his situation.<P>I'll keep my mouth shut I hope he is making the connection. I have this letter/journal thing going now. I write it when I need to vent. In this letter, I bring up these analogies. Its about 10 pages long now, lots of other stuff included, of course. I hope I never feel compelled to give it to him...its not pretty.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened

Ah ... the "education" thing. I'll raise my hand... I'm sure I'm guilty of it - not often, but on occasion. I try not to educate about affairs ... but recently I did find myself trying to help him understand why his sisters don't want anything to do with the slug. I think it might have been a little bit of a lovebuster when I said, "Maybe don't want her around because they've heard the same thing about her that I have: That she's the nastiest whore in town." Oops ... <P>Oddly enough - my remark above did not elicit an angrily defensive response. Instead, he asked me who had told me that, and mentioned a specific name... No defense at all. Interesting.<P>Anyhow, sorry for getting off the subject, but the "educating" thing is a TOUGH one to avoid.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

Enlightened,<P>Oh! I think you can educate him alright . A little womenly guile should do it. You see you have a chance to do for him what you want him to do for you. In the process of helping him through his sense of betrayal, you can show him what would help you. And I suspect that there will be some opportunities to drop a subtle hint that you felt the same way .<P>This is a tough time for both of you, but you see the connections between your situations. He may or may not but you can help him see things in a clearer light if you know what I mean. It does hurt when you realize you spent your time on the wrong thing especially when you really committed to it. The good news is your H came back. His job doesn't sound like it will make a come back in the truest sense.<P>Hope this make sense. It is getting late.<P><BR>Good Luck and God Bless<P>JL

Educating them.......mmmmm...........<BR>After reading Dr. Harleys' books again, I am the classic LB when it comes to "disrespectful judgements". I was always trying to let him know I knew better than he, if he would just listen to me and follow my plan, life would be easier, etc....I was awful at this. What an eye opener for me when I read about myself inthe books! Now I seldom interject my opinion on him. I am responsive and compassionate, but I no longer feel a need to be right, and to have him see it "my way". <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

I thought more about this and knowing myself as I do, I'm sure I will eventually have the analogy discussion. My problem is the timing...I let things build up and they come out as a disrespectful judgement, angry outburst, etc.<P>Part of what sometimes frustrates me is that when he is distraught, I have the natural inclination to be supportive, compassionate, encouraging, etc. I may not have the answers, but I am there for him. JL, you're right, I want to show him that I need/want the same from him.<P>He's travelling this week and I considered leaving him a brief note to ponder while he's away. I, however, ran out of time and didn't get it done. I was concerned about making it loving w/o being disrespectful judgement, etc. Couldn't get my words together. <P>Because of how he feels about job right now, he did not want to go on this trip. Maybe after he returns I will start with a subtle hint or two. While he's away, it gives me more time to choose the right words.<P>Thanks for the input.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened<p>[This message has been edited by Enlightened (edited January 10, 2000).]

Had the opportunity to use a subtle hint tonight. Spoke to him on the phone and he talked about how much he doesn't want to be at the meeting and how much he misses us. Asked me to get down there tomorrow (which is impossible)<P>He regularly tells me that he misses me now. I am unable to respond other than to say "OK" This is largely for two reasons 1)because he is away so much for various reasons (not work-related) that I HAD to adjust to his being away for my personal sanity. But more importantly, I am AFRAID to utter these words to him. My wall around my feelings is protecting me. I feel bad that I cannot say these words, nor that I love him.<P>Tonight, when he said he missed me, I said the standard "OK" He asked me if I could say I missed him. I told him that "I don't feel safe saying those things to him" He just said "oh". It may not mean much to him right now, but I used the same words he used just the other day to describe how he feels about his employer. I hope he makes the connection.<P>Enlightened<BR>