I’ve been an observer for quite a while now and decided to post my story, hoping to get some opinions, advice, feedback—something to help me decide where to go from here. This post will be long, so please bear with me. My H and I have been married for 28 years (plus we dated for 10 years before that), so this relationship is a huge part of our lives (we’re both 51 years old). We were childhood sweethearts, did everything and went everywhere together. He was always quiet, didn’t talk much about personal things; but I could get him to talk to me eventually about most anything at first. However, I had to do all the conversational groundwork. I also knew from the start that his friends were a priority to him. I accepted all that because I am a person who can handle pretty much anything, we had a lot in common, and I loved him so much—we were very happy! About three years after our marriage, we had our first son, then our second about three years later. About the time our first son was four years old, my H decided to start a business with my help. But he had to work 12 hours a day/7 days a week at first (and I helped with the bookkeeping from home). Needless to say, my sons and I never saw him; and family get-togethers gradually disappeared. I had to do everything with and for my sons (lessons, parties, homework, appointments, discipline, hugs and kisses—you name it). I still felt loved and appreciated by my H (through his actions and words), but most of whatever little spare time he had after working hours went to his friends. Gradually over time, my H and I did less and less together (talked less and less with conversation limited to life’s "details"), he spent more time with his friends than he did with me, the boys learned that they could only rely on Mom to be there for them, and the only things my H and I did together were those things he wanted to do and almost always included friends. Also, my H started another business about 10 years ago that ate into his spare time just as the first business’ demands started to give him some free time. So we were pretty much leading separate lives, just getting together for occasional family outings, vacations with friends, and sex (which was still great!). My H was and is a wonderful person, has always been very affectionate to me—we never fight, and he’ll do anything for anyone at any time, including me and the boys. He tells me he loves me all the time and never forgets an important date. But I have felt for a long time that his only interest in me is sexual and that’s the only time he’ll attempt to talk to me. I told him this recently—he was shocked and very sorry!! To get to the point, I found out in early October that my H has been having an affair since early summer with a friend he’s known for two years. He said they can talk to each other easily, finish each other’s sentences (something my H and I used to do, too); and he enjoys her company—said it was not a sex thing but they were having sex!! In fact, my H moved out for a couple of days before I knew anything was wrong (he was supposed to be on a fishing trip with friends). He came back on his own, saying that we needed to be more romantic in our marriage but nothing about another woman. After trying "romance" for one night, he finally told me about the OW and moved out again (to her apartment). A couple of days later, when I called my H to set up a meeting for us to talk, I discovered he was living with her (he had told me he needed to be "alone" for a while!). We talked and decided he would move in with a friend, stay away from the OW and get some professional help (during the talk, he confided in me that he never received any hugs/kisses/praise from his parents—something I never knew until that moment and something that explained a lot about his behavior!). He stayed with the friend for two weeks, we talked/cried/"dated" during that time, he got some professional help, then he asked to come home. We agreed to work on our marriage without the OW in the picture; and I tried to give him everything he said he needed—affection, conversation, honesty, no pressure. However, we only made love once, about a week after he came home; so I confronted him after six weeks (in mid-December) and found out he was still seeing the OW and had been even while he was staying with his friend. He wanted to wait until after the holidays were over to tell me, but he had already started looking for an apartment. I wasn’t aware of MarriageBuilders or Plan A or Plan B then, so I told him to decide by the end of the year whether he wanted the OW or our marriage or just needed some time to himself—I gave him options, but he was already planning to leave anyway. If he couldn’t decide, I told him he had to work out his decision somewhere else—all I asked was that he keep the expenses down (the last time he moved out cost us quite a lot), that I still be able to pay our bills in the meantime, and that he keep contact with me to a minimum until he could make a decision (he is doing all of that so far). I just couldn’t watch his comings and goings, knowing he was seeing the OW every day and lying to me—I asked him to put himself in my shoes and think about how he would feel. So he decided to move in with his friend the next day, saying he was "uncomfortable." My H and I still did all the holiday family get-togethers we already had planned, but he’s been living with his friends for three weeks now. For the last three weeks, I have been calling my H with his messages, mail, etc. (all with his blessings); he has not called me once yet, but he accepts my phone calls. He stopped by over the holidays several times (to drop something off or pick something up), but I haven’t seen him since New Year’s Eve. He told me at that time that he stopped seeing the OW permanently (if it’s still true, they would have been apart for three weeks now—that means that he decided to stop seeing her as soon as he moved out), stopped smoking (he started during the affair due to the stress), and started taking better care of himself (he’s been sick all December, also due to stress). He told me he loves me and gave me several hugs/kisses, but that was nine days ago; he also told me he has made no permanent decisions as yet (except about the OW). This week he came over twice, both times while I was at work, to pick up mail and a few clothes—he hasn’t taken anything yet except some clothes and some reading material). Nobody knows our situation except his friend and the OW—he wants everyone to think he’s "house-sitting" for his friend; I have no one to talk to about this. We have one son still at home who will eventually start asking how long this "house-sitting" is going to last; however, he has become used to not seeing my H for long periods of time. So my conclusions are that neither of us has taken very good care of our marriage, mostly because we stopped communicating. I have complained about this over the years, and my H always agrees with me; but nothing changes. My H seems to need a lot of affection due to his childhood (I wish I had that information a long time ago!). I needed my H to talk to me; and when he didn’t, I learned to do without it and became pretty independent. We both need to do activities together—those he likes, those I like and those we both like—and our marriage needs to come first with both of us. My H says he started to fall "out of love" with me about ten years ago (although he still loves me), and he just wants to be happy now. But I feel like he started "leaving" a long time ago—conversationally, emotionally and then finally physically (several times!). It seems like his first response is to run away. I accept my own share of the blame—I couldn’t reach him enough to find out what was wrong and fix it—I reacted by withdrawing, too. I think my H is so full of guilt now that he can’t even see me let alone talk to me, and he’s told me he feels he’s the one at fault here. So what now? Do I keep calling him to keep him updated on his family? I tell him I miss him and love him whenever we talk—do I keep doing that? I sent him a note about missing him, asking if we could start rebuilding our marriage slowly now that he’s through with the OW—is that a no-no? I’m trying to give him the space and time he needs, and he’s doing the same for me; but what is he started liking the single life? Or should I just leave him alone entirely to work things out for himself? He can’t stay with his friend forever, and I feel like we both should get some professional help (I’ve offered to go to a marriage counselor with him, but I guess he’s not ready). If anyone has any advice for me, I’d appreciate it. I’m just taking it a day at a time, hoping that he misses me as soon as he stops missing the OW (and hoping he’s telling me the truth about not seeing her anymore!). I never realized how lonely a house can be, and I miss everything about him (except the lack of conversation or lack of togetherness, of course). Sorry about the length of this post—just wanted to give you all the facts. Incidentally, I really admire all of you out there who are hanging in through some really difficult times—hope I can be as strong! Thanks for listening!!

Hi, D&D, and Welcome to MB! I'm so sorry you have to be here, but I am awfully glad you found us.<P>I'll leave the official welcoming to Jim or Bill, they'll give you the lists of things to read that will definitely help you understand what's going on here.<P>You're just at the beginning of this "ride" we all share, so be sure that you're taking care of yourself. You're gonna need all the strength you can get.<P>You're off to a good start, though. You've taken a good look at things and discovered where BOTH of you let each other down in your marriage. You'll learn a lot more before it's all over with, too. And to tell you the truth, that's not a bad thing.<P>If you want your husband back to help you build the marriage of your dreams, then it's Plan A all the way. Just don't get discouraged. It takes a long, long time generally and NOTHING is guarenteed. Except that you'll come out of this a better person. <P>Memorize Harley's principles. Read these posts. Over and over. Search for previous posts and histories. You'll find a number of people who have been in your situation. And post any questions you may have. Or use us as a sounding board to cry, vent or scream!! It's ok, that's why we're here.<P>If tonight doesn't bring a lot of responses, please don't get discouraged. Weekends are pretty slow around here, you'll see a lot more activity during the week. And with so many of us posting, if it seems that you've gotten "lost", then PLEASE, post it again. As new posts appear, older ones slide down and can be missed.<P>So very sorry you're having to join us here, but we are here for you. And there is a lot you can do.<P>Hang in there, you'll be ok.<P>Lori

Welcome <B>dumbanddumber</B>, to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>You are definitely not dumb about the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Basic Concepts of Dr. Harley</A>... so much of my welcome wagon spiel is just for your review...<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P><BR>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! I think you have some idea of this... <B>START WITH <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A></B>! If you think you've read it all... check out my post...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011323.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101</A>!<P>You've seen a barrage of "terms"... to make sure you understand them (click on them):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll still need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>, and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around. There is a post that lists many of these non-Harley book recommendations... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010158.html" TARGET=_blank>Books... books... books... (again)</A>.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>There is never any guarantee to save all marriages... life doesn't work that way, unfortunately.<BR>We can, and do guarantee, to give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>I admire the depth of your knowledge of the concepts... post post post (just maybe a bit shorter... separate thought into some smaller paragraphs too...)<P><B>Do get the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A> ASAP!</B><P>In the book, one quote which may be a bit disheartening to you... but something to think about is... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wayward spouses do not necessarily have a history of lying, but their affair turns them into masters of deception. (page 40 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No matter what this quotes does for/to you... or other advice you may get... remember... STAY WITH <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>!<P>Even if H doesn't want counseling... I would recommend that you(alone if he won't join you) have 2 <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> ($85US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A>. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>!<P>Prayers for you and your H! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Hanging in there!<P>Thanks, Lori and Jim, for respondng to my weekend post. I have ordered the "Surviving an Affair" book you recommended--it sounds like it will be very helpful. It is nice to have someone to talk to and vent with finally. I'll keep you all updated on my situation, but I'm "hanging in there" so far!<P>Dumb and Dumber