Hello folks...<P>I would like to introduce myself. For those of you following dumbmale's story, I am the fiancée. I feel that I need to say some things and hope for understanding. Most of what he says is true and I would like to add to it.<P>We met, became engaged, and filed a fiancée petition with the government to get him here legally. As we discussed before this, he wanted to be in the USA and I was grateful (as I did not want to leave my father). He said it was his dream one day to be in America and its beauty. We both withdrew and did not meet each other's emotional needs. He had an affair and I did not learn of the extent until months later. <P>The first couple months apart were difficult, but nothing was said about a definite farewell. Each time things got difficult we bounced back. In April he told me he was going on a vacation/business event. I accepted this and told him I'd see him in May as I had purchased a ticket many months in advance. <P>In May to my surprise, he told me that he had an affair consisting only of March. I flew out in May and gave it my all to support him. I felt (and told him) that I would sacrifice my own life to save his. I told him that I would bear his children for him (we both did and do not want children as he already has 2 grown, but I would change my mind if he wanted them). I would give him my life. I sent emails and cards everyday during June and July. <P>In August I got the dreaded phone call from the OW. She said her name was XX and I should know her. I said no I do not. She asked how I knew him. I said I am his fiancée. She said she was the OW who lives with him. My heart stopped and I became numb. She told me many things, most of all that they have been together since March. She told me that his trip in April was with her to her homeland. She said there was some, but very little business for him to attend to during the trip. My heart sunk and I felt like thin air. When it hit, I cried for weeks.<P>Later I phoned him and asked why. He said he did not know. We talked briefly. We spoke a couple times again during August. He said he wanted to work it out with us. Several times I called him, he was in bed with her.<P>In October he told me he had a ticket and would be here in two days. The day he was to be on the plane, I woke up to an email that said he did not get on the plane. His reason was because I did not sound excited. I guess I was in shock to learn he was coming. Our relationship at the time was very rocky and I did not expect or anticipate this sudden burst of arrival. November I bought him a plane ticket to fly with me from here to my dad’s for Christmas.<P>November he sent an email that was (as he says less than friendly) saying goodbye. I responded with goodbye. A week later I could not take it and begged for him to return. He responded that he could not see anyone as his wife but me. I told him I’d buy his ticket if he’d come. He did not come. He called two days before Christmas and I asked him when was the last time you slept with her. He said less than one week more than two. Again I was crushed. He told me that if I did not want to know, I should not ask.<P>I hoped he would have been here the first week of January. His fiancé visa expired at the end. I have asked him to come over and spend time with me. I suggested that we have separate sleeping quarters, limited access to the computer since I fear his contact with her, outgoing international phone lines halted for the time, and no smoking on the property (I am allergic). He rebutted and says these sympathetic terms and conditions are unsatisfactory. He says he is walking away and not looking back as he is afraid to and why don’t I do the same. He says when one is angry one does not feel pain.<P>He does not want to deal with my hurt. I feel he does not want a life together. I do not feel engaged. When I was with him in May he wore his ring on his right hand. In November upon his goodbye I returned my ring to him. I did not feel it was mine to keep. I wonder if we are in-love. Don’t people in-love say I love you, I miss you, and aren’t they affectionate? I have cried and bawled many tears. My eyes become so swollen that I cannot wear contacts for days. I have been sick to my stomach. The thought of the man I love with OW makes me ill. I don’t sleep without pills. I feel completely abandoned, unwanted, and unloved by him.<P>I was involved in a long term relationship before. Infidelity happened then too. It gave me a STD. I packed my bags and left. I lived with the man for 4 yrs. Does he not see how this has affected me? Does he not understand my fears? I feel completely abandoned, unwanted, and unloved by him.<P>Do not get me wrong. He was a very passionate, kind, considerate, loving man. And I know he is in pain. I know he hurts too. I just do not know who he is any more. Is it wrong for me to feel so unloved? Is it wrong for me to want to start slow? Is it wrong for me to have respect for him and myself by saying lets not jump in bed right away, but get to know and love each other first? Is it wrong for me to say let’s find out if it is meant to be?<P>I have come to the site for a couple months. I’ve read and learned. I suggested that he visit it and maybe post a forum. He has. I respect him for this. I did not want to come online, but feel there is much left out. Thank you for listening and God bless you. <P>Please do not take this to heart or in a direct manner, but right now, I wish I did not exist. <BR>

Fiancee,<P>My heart goes out to you. I remember well those nights that I could not sleep without medicinal aid. There are still days that my stomache is in knots and I throw up. <BR>I don't really have any advice to offer you but I wanted you to know that I will be praying for and thinking of you. Please take care of yourself.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Patient Love,<P>Thank you for your prayers and understanding. I know we should stop and smell the roses, and a lot of the time the roses are dead. I don't know how to handle some days... most of the time I think I wonder around being numb.<P>I too shall pray for you and lend my ears. I wish all of us happiness... one way or another. Again, thank you.<P>Janette

Believe me, I KNOW your pain. I feel your pain. I have been there. I too have been betrayed in a similar way to you. <P>I know about the pills, the sleeplessness, the physical sickness in one's stomach.The knife in your back. The hope, the fears. Do I believe him or don't I. Over and over and over again.<P>Now ask yourself:<P>How would you like this end?<P>Do I have a workable solution in mind?<P>Seriously, will I ever be able to trust him again?<P>Is he worthy of me?<P>Why do I still want him?<P>Do I still want him?<P>These are the questions I had to ask myself.<P>Most of my answers were "no", hence my handle, Moving On.<P>The man involved actually sounds like he could be a very nice person indeed, having read his contributions. My words to you are in no way against him, as such, and I am not suggesting your answers be the same as mine - just sharing.<P>Unrequited love, broken trust, lies and deceit are enormously heartbreaking and one can only hope for time, the healer, to march on quickly.<P>What happens to all the "used" OM and OW? I would imagine that they have been as duped, in most cases, as have the actual wives/husbands, fiancees, boyfriends and girlfriends of the betrayer.<P>A Wellwisher

Janette,<P>I do feel obligated to respond to your post... I after all gave Allen my input to his post...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011739.html" TARGET=_blank>Is this lost before it's even started?</A>.<P>It is always good to hear "...the rest of the story..."<P>As I said to Allen... this relationship was made extremely hard... mostly due to the distance. But that is not the only reason.<P>I really don't know where he is in relation to the OW... you and he know better than I... but to really build a new relationship... both of you need to start thinking of the <B>four rules for a happy marriage</B><BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse.<BR></OL> <P>Obviously, there has been a lack of <B>honesty</B> and <B>care</B>... that is part and parcel of what an affair is all about... Is this something you(both of you) can overcome?... That can only be known when the state of the affair is known... If it is not terminated <B>completely</B>... the chances have to be considered slim...<P>No... he hasn't been <B>protect</B>ing you either... that is also part of the package of an affair.<P><B>Time</B> is what it will take...<BR>and a "pure" <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> on both parts. What does that mean... no <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> and trying whenever possible to meet each other's <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>. The only way to do this.. is... if you are together (not an ocean apart.)<P>Is all this worth a try?...<BR>That is a decision both of you should work out.<BR>Love is powerful! But an affair... ill placed... ill timed... and always ill conceived... has been known to kill that love.<P>In all cases... I suggest to you too... stay here and post... Everyone can and does grow here!<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited January 17, 2000).]

Moving On & Jim:<P>Thank you so much for staying in touch and responding.<P>I have asked myself these questions with great seriousness. I am even put forth with a new dilema since the weekend. On Friday he sent me an email ending Love lots, then only minutes later he sent an email saying to stay the FXXX out of his life, then today I get another ending Love... Are these mixed messages or what?<P>I often wish I could talk to the OW. I do not know if what he has told me is true or not. From what he told me is that he confided in her and told her our relationship was over in January last year. This of course was a lie to her. Then his landlord asked him to move out. The OW was in a financial bind with her house and her soon to be ex-husband was of no help (so this is the story I know). Allen bought into the house with her (a man who told many that he never wanted a mortgage payment). Now he lives there. She lives somewhere in London and will move back into this house where her lease is up. She sees him each weekend and I do not know to what extent. Confused? Darn straight I am! I often wish I could call her and talk to her... I often wish I knew more. I often wish she'd have the nerve to email me and want to talk also. Me email her? I did once. Not really a nice one. I was told by Allen that the OW still wanted a relationship with him and it got the best of me. So I sent her an email saying to stay away. So to email her may not be taken very kindly by her. And I don't blame her at this point either.<P>Jim, thanks for the rules. I have read everything I can from this sight and more. Time and distance are a part of our lives I don't ever know will become less and less. If you were to ask me when was the last time I was 'with' him, I'd say a bit over a year ago. Do I know him? I am afraid not... I've even told him this.<P>I guess my idea of a relationship and commitment are different than his. Anyway, thank you kindly for your support.<P>God Bless you both!<BR>-Janette

One other thing that I wish to add is that in a conversation we had on the phone several weeks ago, I told him not to take this mean, but I do not feel that he loves himself or has any self-respect. He breathed and then replied that he agreed. We have agreed to work on his self-love first and get him to a GREAT spot in his life. I know that he cannot handle his pain and mine at the same time. Therefore we are not dealing with my pain. Does it hurt? yes... I guess maybe that is why NOW I wish I could talk to the OW as a person and not as 'who did and who didn't' kind of thing.<P>I read the section in Dr. H's web about the pain of the OP. I know she hurted too.<P>Is any of this fair? no... but we deal with life the best way we can. I even asked my father how do you know if your choices are right? He said, stop and smell the roses more often... and pray.<P>God Bless All.

Janette<P>Why do you feel you would like to speak to the OW? How would this help you or her, for that matter?<P>Do you believe Allen IS now telling you all that he should? Do you have any doubts?<P>We of course can never know anything as a 100% certainty, well not that kind of thing anyway. We need to follow our innermost feelings to try and fathom what to do.<P>This is just so hard and I think this forum is wonderful for helping us work through these things. I hope this can help you with the problems you have just as I am hoping these wonderful people will be able to help me too.<P>Look after yourself<P>Judith