What is "in-love",what does it mean?. It seems that after 19 years that the feeling would change at moments but not end,so why do we get hung up on in-love. I would rather sleep on the fooor even though painful than to be alone and miserable,but I do really dislike fighting and anger. Im tired,sick and lonely and alone and need sleep,need to make some sense of all.Please advise and pray.Its late and I wont be able to read untill tomarrow,but thank you beforehand.David.

You will be in my Prayers David. I hope you and Sheryl will be able to work things out.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

(((((((((((ThreeWishes))))))))))<P>You ask what does "in-love" mean? I don't know. But you know what? I think it's a question that is asked when two people are really tired of dancing to the same music after too many years of struggle.<P>I think it is a question one asks when one is struggling to find new meaning, deeper and richer meaning to life or in a marriage.<P>Perhaps it is the wrong question to ask, 3Wishes. Perhaps it is for the moment an unattainable goal when so much *life* has happened.<P>You are hurting. You are sad and alone. Maybe you shouldn't be seeking that "in-love" feeling. Maybe being loved is enough for now...knowing that someone out there loves you for all that you are, foibles and all.<P>Maybe we (and I include myself here) should content ourselves for now at least in the knowledge that we are loved--and maybe, just maybe one day soon that "in love" euphoria will return.<P>I'm praying for you, 3Wishes. Be kind to yourself today. God bless.<P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis<P>

Hi, David. Glad to see you back.<P>I don't know what "in love" really means. I think it may mean different things to different people. Many times, "in love" is used to describe the feelings one has at the beginning of a relationship. The obsessive, fresh attraction one feels toward another. You remember, those times when you tended to exclude everything else in your life to concentrate your thoughts and actions on your lover.<P>It can also mean a highly-charged "romantic" love, again something more familiar at the beginning of a relationship.<P>I've felt this "in love" feeling for my W several times during our 11+ years together, but it's not constant. I'm feeling it now because we are coming out of a very rough time in our lives and something is re-kindling. I don't expect it to stick around constantly and forever. It's something I float into and out of depending on what's happening in our lives at the moment.<P>The most important thing is the deep, constant love I feel and that she feels for me. This doesn't come and go, it's there all the time. I don't think it's an "in love" feeling, but something much, much more. Sometimes I don't even realize it's there because it has become part of the bond between us. It becomes recognizable when one of us needs it.<P>I'll try to use my situation to describe it(if you don't remember what's going on with me, ask Sheryl). My W was asked once by her sister if she still loved me. She said she did, but she didn't know if she was "in love" with me. But she also said she wasn't sure what that meant. OK, so the "in love" might have been missing. But she has also told me on many occasions that she loved me and when I have asked why she didn't leave, why she didn't go to OM, her answer was always the same: "Because I love you". She didn't need "in love" as an integral part of the bond between us, just that deep, constant love I mentioned earlier.<P>Susan is going to move out on her own for a while to get in touch with herself. Sure I don't necessarily want this, but I will tell you this: If I were only "in love" with her, I wouldn't be able to stand the separation. It would drive me crazy and I would probably do things I would regret later. I would become a gigantic pest that wouldn't really allow her to do what she needs to do.<P>The deep, constant love I have grown for her over the years, gives me the ability to give her space without complaint, to support her and what she is doing. I know that that love isn't going to die out in a day, a week or a month. "In love" is so dynamic that it can be fleeting. You can be "in love" with someone today and not next week. Most of the time, "in love" is what gets the relationship started and keeps it going until the deeper love takes hold. "In love" can recharge the old batteries and strengthen the deep love, but it's not a requirement.<P>For a married couple, "in love" strengthens the bond between them, but is not necessarily a requirement for a happy, satisfying marriage. "In love" is fun, it's refreshing and it's a nice reassurance sometimes, but I prefer that "deep" love I've referred to. That's the love of commitment, of partnership, of sacrifice and permanency.<P>Anyway, there it is. That's my take on it, but I think you will find a million other definitions of "in love". It means different things to different people, but the commonality is that it's intense and compulsive.<P>Let me know what you think of this, if you are able to read it. I tend to ramble at times which makes my writing less understandable. I've always thought you have a unique take on life and I would appreciate your thoughts....<P><BR>Take care and hugs, David...<P><BR>--DeWayne--

3Wishes,<P>I think there are two kinds on "in-love", the first is a chemical imbalance in the brain, experienced by newly engaged persons. This "in-love" feeling enables persons to overlook minor faults in their partners and concentrate on their good/strong virtues. Basically by putting on those proverbial rose-tinted glasses. This kind of "in-love" is especially intoxicating in a way not too different from being on drugs.<P>After a while this "in-love" feeling changes nature, the chemical imbalance subsides, and are replaced by a more mature kind of love manifested in comfort, respect, dependency, and a host of other feelings that makes it preferably to be in the other person's presense. In a way love has taken roots and can grow or wither, depending on how your essential needs are satisfied in your relationship with your loved one.<P>Just my $0.02...<P>And you're in my prayers as well.<p>[This message has been edited by SadMan (edited January 12, 2000).]

David,<BR>You and Sheryl are in my prayers. I hope you find some answers...I know how hard they are to find.<P>Stacy<P>------------------<BR>Jaded Heart<BR>____________<P> <A HREF="http://journeys.webprovider.com" TARGET=_blank>http://reflect.to/journeys</A> <P> <P>

Hi David, long time no talk to --<P>Ya know, I really hate this question... What is "in-love"? We all have slightly different definitions, based on what side of the infidelity coin we are on. But I think we all know basically what it is. And yes, it does mature into something else, but it is (or should be) always there in the background (IMHO).<P>The more important question in your post was: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It seems that after 19 years that the feeling would change at moments but not end,so why do we get hung up on in-love<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know about anybody else, but I can give you my perspective. To me, the "in-love" thing is a reminder that you are with the right person, and that you are content and happy to be with that person for the rest of your life. That's why it's so important. I want to look forward to coming home from work and spending time with my wife. I want to desire her. When I don't feel those things, I feel discontented, like there is something missing. I think this is true for alot of people. Some very lucky people have that. We don't see them on this forum... so our (or at least my) big struggle is to try to get it back.<P>--andy

David, <P>It's late and I have to get ready for work, but I wanted to reply to this post, (especially since you went to the trouble to tell me to read it ).<P>I am so sorry about how you're feeling sad and lonely. You are my H, and I hate to think of you hurting in any way. More than anything else (and that means that million dollar question "what is in love?") I sensed your lonliness. In that way, I want to make everything okay, to tell you to jump in my pocket and I'll take care of you and you'll never be lonely again. But... but... you must agree that the lonliness isn't the big question to you. Your original question re: "in love" is what you're aiming for...<P>Last month you wrote a post, "what is love?"... this love and in love thing is very important to you. I understand, in a way, but in another way I don't. I don't expect all the bells and whistles after 20 years. I guess that you and I were riding high on the "in love" feelings much longer than most, at least that's what I'm told by nearly everyone. They say that you and I were unrealistic about what it meant to be married. I would tell them about how I loved you despite the problems, how I loved your face and body... and they would look at me sadly. You see how the world has become, David? They told me it was a fantasy. Imagine that? My marriage was a fantasy because I was madly in love with my <B>husband</B>! And therein lies the problem, I think. I began to dissect our marriage while I was doing the old 40 yr. reassessment thing, and I somehow lost the "in love" feelings. I'd had them for so long, and I missed them, so I looked elsewhere for them. And, of course, I thought I'd found them in the OM. Sad, huh? And then you began to do the same. Even sadder. Because you and I always had something wonderful that few do: we had love and passion into teen years of our marriage, when most others do not.<P>David, I miss that. I miss what we had. I miss you. It feels like things have spiriled out of control and I don't know how to stop it. I want to though. Honestly. <P>I am not angry with you, I am angry with this situation, with outside forces who dare to stick their ugly heads into <B>our</B> life. I want this marriage as much as you do, and I haven't given up hope - not by a long shot.<P>I love you.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

I agree with Andy. I used to think it was enough that we really cared about each other and were committed to each other. We were always the best of friends underlying other aspects of our relationship. But it wasn't enough, and if I've learned anything it's that feelings are very important. <P>No, a spouse shouldn't look elsewhere, but it happens even to the best. So while I'm not sure if the same intensity is possible, given life and especially children, I understand the goal of recovery to be recreating the feelings of in-loveness. Yes, RECREATING. If I understand anything of Harley, it is that the feelings are created. One interesting thing my h said was that he saw how he created it with OW, followed the four rules exactly (of course it's much easier than in the real world of kids, bills, in-laws, etc.) so he believes they will work for us. And yes, spending time out on dates was the biggest change for us. The pain is still a bit fresh, but we are falling in love again.

BTW, I think other types of love do grow in a relationship. There are so many common threads over the years, and we learn to seek the best for the other person. But, bottom line to what I said above, it was a cop-out for me to think this more mature love had simply replaced the more erotic form. They are all ESSENTIAL.

Hi David.<BR>There are very good answers in here.<BR>I tend to agree with heartpain, the in-love feeling seems to be constant in the begining of relationships, and then troughout the marriage, it kind of comes and goes while it's replaced by a different kind of love. Sometimes it seems to come back for no reason, other times it comes in occasions of stress,, but it's not constant anymore.<BR>The change from the in love feeling to the other kind of love happens at different times for different people and marriages( sheryl what you wrote seems it was written for me too, we also went trough this "high" for longer than most, people used to comment on that too, and I think that my h"s affair also happened when he noticed that change, the lost in=love feeling, without noticing the other kind, and looking for that exciting feeling that seemed to be gone ).Sometimes we don't even notice the change, and when we do it just confuses us.SOmehow, the other kind of calm and deeper love doesn't seem much. We crave the incredible "high" of the in love feeling, sometimes just because we think it's the only kind there is.<BR>For some people it's easier to make this transition than to others.<P>As I said before, David, I think you and sheryl love each other very much, but you're trying to do so much, to understand so much that you end up even more confused and hurt.<BR>You say you hate being alone and miserable, that you don't like fighting and anger. I bet sheryl does too. maybe you both should just try to just feel - no questions, no answers, no reminders... just let that other kind of love take over and go from there.. <BR>Trying to analyse things when we're hurt doesn't usually work to well, it's difficult to do it without going back to all the pain and then it goes into a circle over and over again.<BR>ANother thing that sometimes happens is that we sometimes expect that after an affair , or any other situation where the marriage suffers, when things get better everything will get better. WE and our spouses will even change things from before the affair. Well, we cannot change into another person just because we redicovered our love, we're still the same person, and we still have the minor faults we had before, those are part of us.( I say this because in a way, at the beginning I kind of expected that from my H. I wanted him to open more and be able to talk about his feelings without problems, well this had nothing to do with the affair, he was always like that. that's him, he had trouble with doing that and always had. Yes he's making an effort, but it's still difficult for him to talk about what he's feeling. It can't be changed, not completely. What changed was, that know he realises that, and if I ask him he does try. It doesn't mean that he's that successfull at times.<BR>I don't know, David. What I feel is that you do love your w and she loves you, and you guys need to find a way of meeting halfway and give and receive that love without stopping to question or analise it.<BR>A big Hug<BR>Kat<P><BR>

Thank You one and all for the great support and insight. Its very interesting to get different perpectives on an issue and they all weave into the fabric of a better understanding. Very helpful! I'm finding that the people here are more solution to an understanding that is needed. I agree with you and expect love to win out. I'm away and on my own ans finding it is not good or beneficial to mending. I would'nt advise separation as useful in repairing a broken relationship. Maybe this is lost in the many posts the tend to explode onto pages my too many souls in pain, so no need to reply any further to this,but just to say thank you to all who spent thier tenderness and compassion.David

David & Sheryl,<P>Re-read SadMan's reply, it's says it all. But the most important part to read is in your heart. You love & care for each other so, what's missing? Probably trust & respect. This reminds me of this story I read years ago, 2 old people (man & woman) who committed suicide the same night in NYC; they both left in writing the reason why they were doing it & in both cases it was loneliness; they lived in the same apartment building right next to each other but were just to miserable to notice each other.<P>Use the material from Harvey's books and this web site but mainly use your love. Life is too short to waste and tomorrow offers no guarantees. Try it, believe in each other, is not an easy task, requires lots of work, but just try it, or just let go. I think somebody in this site used to sign "pain is inevitable, misery is a choice".<P>I am praying for you & your happiness.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn<BR>

Oh, man, I'm upset! <P>I replied to this post EARLY yesterday morning and now I see it's gone!!<P>Well, no need to say it all again, David. Everyone else already has. But you two can FIND those feelings again. They are still there, just buried under the problems you've both been through and the hurt feelings.<P>Let that be your mission! Finding a way to find them again. Finding a way to have fun, to enjoy each other, to be a little bit like kids together. It's possible. They're there. <P>Neither of you can "undo" the past. Neither of you can "make up" everything to the other. Let go, both of you. Try to find that "clean slate" I keep hearing about and instead of worrying about fixing the damage, concentrate your efforts on building the best!! (I know, it sounds so simple for something so hard!)<P>Hang in there, you guys. You have what it takes. No more punishing each other or yourselves. You can DO THIS!!!<P>Ok, I'm done! Sorry my first one got lost.<P>Lori