Ok people here's the deal, Mike and I getting along better, not perfect, but better.<P>But I have a real problem with him talking to other women on ICQ. I have let him know this in as many ways as I know how. I have told him it hurts me, that it scares me, that I don't like it, that I want him to stop it.<P>Does any of this do me any good ? Nope, instead of stopping or cutting down he's gone from 2 to 3 ICQ buddies, all female of course.<P>All of these women are women I "know" from the net, he will not tell them I don't appricate him talking to them like that, because they won't talk to him anymore if he does.<P>Then we get to the "you're trying to control my life " thing again.<P>Look, I admit it, I'm afraid, ok , lets face facts, his track record of fidelity isn't great. And I admit I am jealous, not w/o reason.<P>I am afraid that one of these days I will lose it and tell these ladies that I don't like it one little bit. Then the fat will be in the fire for sure, he will be really mad at me, and I will most likely lose some friends, maybe even my home.<P>And for those who don't know my full story, no, them being friends or at least friendly with me doesn't help a bit. His last affair included people I thought of as friends.<P>What am I gonna do y'all ?<P>I'm tired of fighting with him about this, I'm tired of being afraid. I guess talking to them means more to him than how I feel about it is. Ah well, there's nothing new in that.<P><P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Oh, Deb, I'm sorry. It's early though and I'm not thinking yet. There HAS to be a way to get to him. Let me give it some more thought and I'll be back.<P>Lori

Lori,<P>I just don't know, I have tried EVERYTHING.<P>Calm reasonable conversation, crying, screaming fits, begging.<P>Nothing seems to get through to him.<P>It seems my choices are to accept this behaviour that hurts me, or leave, period the end.<P>I'm sorry but ya know I have accepted alot of things in our marriage that I don't like, why should I have to accept this too ? Why can't he just talk to them by email, or on a message board or even in the chat room we both use.<P>I know I'm feeling sorry for me, but darn it, it's like one more time other women come first, my feeling don't count for squat. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Hi Deb, <P>Your husband should know that he needs to treat you better than that! He has put you through the ringer already as it is! He should know that by behaving this way it is going to do nothing but hurt you. <P>Check out my post. You will see what my husband is doing to try and help make me feel better about our marriage! I mean that sarcastically. I think I am going to have to take some drastic measures too. I am scared just like you! It means I will probably lose my home, my job, everything that I have! Except my kids! I will have them! <P>This all really just sucks and I am sick to my stomach over it! I guess I don't have any advice. I just sort of see it that we are in the same boat. <P>I will be thinking of you today!<P>~Woozy

Woozy,<P>He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong.<BR>I am the one who is wrong here. <P>I think he is just doing this so I will leave then I will be the bad guy. So he will be able to say, well I tried but Deb just wouldn't so she left.<P>I truely do believe thats what he's trying for.<P>He doesn't see this as treating me badly, he sees it as me treating him badly.<P>I have been in this mess for more than 21 years all together, I'm darn it tired of being hurt.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

oh deb, what a bummer.<BR>he is totally ignoring the policy of joint agreement. if you both don't agree that his talking to women is ok, then it isn't, period.<BR>is there anyway you can sneak those MB principles in front of him?<BR>i wish i could help you more

Deb:<P>Discuss the Policy of Joint Agreement with him, and show him how his behavior is in violation of that policy. And by violating it, he's hurting you.<P>And then offer to discuss something that you do (thoughtless behavior) in violation of this policy---and work out a similar "negotiation".

Hi Deb,<P>Do you want a two by four? Or how about a big old can of whop a$$. Just let me know and I will air express it down to you.<P>As for real advice I would point blank ask Mike how he would feel if you had cheated on him like he has you and now you are on-line chatting with men via ICQ? I do this with Tony all the time. Sometimes it starts to sink in the fat old brain. Try the old how would you feel if I did this to you aproach. I find that gets them thinking.<P>((((((((((deb))))))))))))

Deb honey<BR>You are not insane #1!!!!!!!<BR>Go for Paha's 2X4 then listen to K (as usual).<BR>Have you read Private Lies?<BR>I am rereading it. <BR>What is infidelity? Ask your spouse.<BR>Darn it Deb I'm going through the same over and over thing about what is wrong with a relationship with another woman that hurts the spouse. <BR>Is Mike my H's twin?<BR>It's only wrong if it's sexual?<BR>No advice Hun!<BR>Just <BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>and know that you have a right to your feelings.<BR>

Lori,K & Pahakissa,<P>Won't work he knows about the poja, and I din't think he agrees with it. <P>I got my own ICQ # this morning,, I told him I want to see how he will like it if I do what he's been doing.<P>Of course I have only given the # to one person, a woman from here of course.<P>The bottom line is how I feel about this matters not. , he won't stop.<P>So now back to the topic title, am I insane <BR>because I don't want him doing this ?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Alright Ws,<P>This is nuts, you were posting when I was, that esp thing going again.<P>warning heavy sarcasm ahead,<P>My feelings are wrong. Thats what I get when I try to use the I feel, or this makes me feel on him. "Well you're wrong" aaaarrrrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>This is yet another of those learn to live with it or go situations. <P>He's not going to stop, thinks I am wrong to ask him to stop.<P>Now I have to decide if I CAN live with it.<BR>Accecpt it and not say anything about it.<P>I will confess I did a nono today, a big lb, by telling him this (again) that it bothers me, and makes me angry that he won't stop and even dared use certian a hand gesture<BR>that we need not go into.<P>This is another no win situation for me. <P>

Deb...I'm so sorry you are going through this. Didn't Mike used to Post here before? I'm assuming that he knows of Harley's principles and that what he's doing on-line is a NO-NO....<P>I think you are reacting normally regarding this. I know I would be reacting the same way you are.<P>Just because sex hasn't happenned yet, most seem to think it isn't an affair.....NOT! It's another affair just waiting to happen! He shouldn't be ICQ-ing them, e-mailing them...NOTHING! They are of the opposite sex so that is threatening to a marriage.<P>Can you get him to come back here to Post? Maybe it will set him straight again and remind him of Harley's suggestions.<P>Hang in there. You are a strong person. K has a good suggestion here. Maybe try that.

Deb<BR>If my ESP is working it's the only thing that is. <P>I'm gonna give this some thought.<BR>You know we've both been playing this game far too long. Confession time. I just had a major lovebuster with H on phone. He called at the wrong minute.<BR>Maybe we're looking for a solution that just isn't realistic. Don't know.<BR>There is no right or wrong in this situation. It is a matter of decency and respect. JMHO.<BR>Wouldn't it be nice to be on the receiving end of those.<BR>OK use the 2X4 on me. I'm being resentful and sarcastic.<BR>Why are we always in a lousy place at the same time? Cycles and timing along with the ESP?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoTrust:<BR><B>Just because sex hasn't happenned yet, most seem to think it isn't an affair.....NOT! It's another affair just waiting to happen! He shouldn't be ICQ-ing them, e-mailing them...NOTHING! They are of the opposite sex so that is threatening to a marriage.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually it an ongoing affair, whether actual sex is involved or not, actual sex only aggravates the situation. The moment there are any sexual interchange of information designed to get your rocks off, it's cheating, and if you come back for more it's an affair. Even if there is no sex or sex talk going on it is still an affair if it's not done with your spouse's consent and approval. When in doubt it it is kept secret it's usually an affair.<BR>

Deb<BR>I have to go out for a bit.<BR>Have a question for you though.<BR>Does Mike trust you completely? Is he absolutely sure of your fidelity?<BR>more later

Oh Deb, I am sorry that you are being hurt like this.....and BOZO - SHAME ON YOU!!!!!<P>Sounds like some stubborness going on here with Mike.....Why? <P>A little mini cycle? <P>Mike does something (innocently or not) - Deb feels hurt and insecure - Mike downplays her concerns - Deb angry and upset - Mike stubborn and controlling - resentments on both sides.......<P>Well, that AIN'T GOOD!!!!!!<P>Deb, you are not insane!! You are looking out for your marriage and you are completely within reason here!!!<P>Mike, what the heck are you thinking? What could possibly be more important than showing love and concern for your wife and marriage? Do you not recognize and learn from past mistakes? Where's your growth, man? Why create a conflict about people who are a non-issue - if they truly are? What's up?<P>By the mere fact that you (Mike) are choosing something or someones over your wife's wishes.....you are disrespecting her and degrading your marriage. FOR WHAT? Pride? Stubborness? Or is there something else that you are mad about and are using this issue as the way to get it out?<P>Get in touch with yourself......let go of patterns that lead to this self-imposed hell for you....and the chaos (internally and externally) that it wreaks for Deb!!! You are hurting her.....and yourself!!!<P>Sorry Deb.....just had to ask him..<P>Maybe he will read? <P>Life is too short for this crap Mike!!!<P>BIG HUGS to you both....now kiss and makeup or I am back to shipping myself there!!!! I'll take care of that damn computer!!! LOL!!!<P>PEACE.....LOVE........and buy a dang Playstation!!!!! THEY don't talk back!!<P>Sheba<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited January 12, 2000).]

Sadman...thank you for correcting me. How did I miss that? Yes, it IS an on-going affair already...