Hi everyone,<P>I haven't posted in a long time. I've been on the site reading but I've also been very sick with the flu.<P>I've been writing alot in journals, expressing my feelings and I still have this emptiness inside. My marriage is kindof in a neutral zone. We've had no blow ups really, just daily routine and life goes on. The holidays were status quo. Typical little fights but I was away from my OM for over 2 1/2 weeks. <P>My husband is trying and counseling sessions have been good. I still think of my OM, in dreams, in the store I'll see a man who resembles him and my heart seems to fall. I think at this point I've analyzed the affair to death. Yet, I still don't feel closure, I still feel like I'm searching for something. I know why the affair happened and maybe it's just me holding onto the true love stuff and just feeling down in general that all those notions I had in my mind of romance and being in love that have just been shattered. Sometimes I like my fantansyland better. Then of course, the movies and TV certainly don't help. I can't stand everything I see, they put these ideas into our heads and it just seems to be everywhere, I try to escape it and then when I see it, it's like it possesses me and I can't stop watching.<P>I know I'm 100 times better in withdrawal then I was. I feel at times if I could just get the other man out of my system for good, I could be happy with my husband. <P>My OM made me feel so loved and so special and he gave me so much attention. I loved the way he expressed himself in words to me. Words that were so beautiful, I had never experienced before. I know my husband could never express himself that way and I do miss it. I also know that it wouldn't of lasted forever with my OM either, I guess I just miss it that interaction.<P>My husband is giving me attention, trying to communicate and I really have no complaints about him. Sometimes, it's just his outlook on life in general, or just his way about things that seem to just not fit with me. But we've always been this way, sometimes we're just oil and water and it's not wrong or right, it's just us together.<P>I'm 31 yr. old, no children and I think about how screwed up my life has been over the past 2 years. Of course it was a long time coming before, it just took the affair to really open my eyes. <P>I don't know what I want. I think if I divorce, will I be unhappy and alone, searching for a prince charming that will never come, or would I finally find happiness. I know I need to find happiness within myself, and maybe it's just that I haven't forgiven myself for my mistakes and I don't know how to begin. Part of me hates myself and I just don't know how to really explain it, it just feels sad inside. Sometimes I sense happiness and peace but it's short lived.<P>I think of my husband, everything I've done to him and I feel sick inside. I think he deserves a woman who really loves him for who he is and isn't always complaining. <P>I want to feel in love with my husband again, I know that love changes over the years and it's not the same, just feeling in my heart that peace that I truly belong with him. <P>I know that we are the only ones who are accountable for our happiness in this life, if we make a choice that we know will <BR>not bring us happiness and will not bring us peace then I feel we will always be vunerable to certain situations in the future and that lost, empty feeling inside our hearts will never go away. I don't want that for myself.<P>I'm trying to do what is the right thing for now in my life but I'm not going to do this forever, I have a timeframe and I'm not saying that it's perfect or that it's to be followed to the exact date, but I feel inside I will know when enough is enough.<P>I wait and pray for a day that I wake up and feel in love with my husband.<P>Anyway, thanks for reading.<p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited January 12, 2000).]

Hum,<P>Hello, and it's so nice to see you . <P>I can't stay long, I replied to my H's post, and I'm running late for work... but I've missed you and love you.<P>Wanted you to know that!!!<P>Take care, sweetie!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Nobody knows what you want except you, and nobody will be as sorry as you if you don't get it. ~Barry Manilow

Hummingbird, I was getting worried about you. I am so glad you posted.<P>You sound a little depressed and emotionally exhausted. Understandable.<P>Maybe all of these new paradigm shifts need a little time to gel and you are just processing right now.<P>What have you read lately? I am about half way into Susan Pages How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together and I am loving it. Take a look at my own post up on the board for my own update. <P>Even a few months ago I wouldn't have believed the pain would ever fade. But it does. Really.<P>Keep doing the work, keep moving toward what you want. Look within, not to beat yourself up, but to grow and learn.<P>And remember you can't always control how you feel at the moment, but you can choose your words and actions. Don't complain. Be pleasant. Act "as if". It will work wonders. <P>You are making progress. You are waist deep in yuck and you are slogging through. Maybe that what has to happen to get through and come out to a better place.<P>Take care...and don't disappear like that!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I just want to say "ditto". I feel like Hummingbird and I were really twins separated at birth and married twin husbands also separated at birth, they even have the same name and are both big hunters. Our stories are just alike and our feelings are just alike and we both work with the OM.<P>I guess this is just an amazing univeral problem. I wish there were some simple easy answer to waking up in love with our husbands again.<P>Hang in there with me, we can do this!!! <BR>Love ya!

Hey, Hum,<P>I E-mailed you...did you get it?<P>You know, Hum, fantasyland has a place...it's just not in real life. I go into fantasyland when I write. Others do it when they go to a movie, or watch a TV show. And as long as it's in the "fantasy lobe" of your brain, and not your "real life" lobe, you're fine.<P>I know your OM gave you attention in a way you can relate to easily, but you know what? If you open your eyes to the ways your H pays attention to you, you might find things that surprise you. They might not be things on your "These Are Romantic Things" checklist, but they're valid just the same.<P>FHL is right; you're still slogging through withdrawal and working on changing the way you think about things, and that takes time.<P>But you really are doing better. The important thing you have to do is forgive yourself. Your self-esteem is an issue, and OM's words were a band-aid on those. You need to get those wounds healed, not apply band-aids.<P>Being in love with your H again won't just happen. It's not a passive process where one day you wake up and there you are. Love is action, love is work.<P>But it's the best job you'll ever have.

My thoughts go back to last week when I was still very sick at home.<P>My husband was sitting in his chair and I was laying on the sofa. He says to me "there's something I wanted to tell you last night but I didn't", and I said "what, tell me what you were thinking" and he said "it was really nothing, I just love you" and I said "I love you, is that what you wanted to tell me". He said "well, no, it was just last night when we were upstairs getting ready for bed, I glanced and saw you in the bathroom standing by the mirror, you were brushing your hair and then you stopped at looked at me and I felt my heart shake, I said to myself "God, she's beautiful, even when she's sick, I love her so much, even after all these years".<P>I couldn't believe he said that and I felt the tears in my eyes and I really think I'm crazy, I wish I felt the same towards him, why did this have to happen.

And you say your H is not good with words? I would do about anything to hear words like that come out of my H's mouth. I think I might have to get a picture of him and do whatever they do with that moving lip picture of Clinton during Konen Obrien to actually make that happen. I have let my H know I would like him to be a bit more verbal...but all I get is "You are wonderful." "That was wonderful." You look wonderful. If wonderful was struck from his vocabulary he'd be in big trouble. He is sincere, though and he is affectionate, just not verbal. Oh, well. Really...that's about it. Oh, well.<P>Your H is also sincere. He is saying those things because he means it.<P>Don't burn him out by not responding. Act "as if" he is the greatest thing since sliced bread and in time I bet the rest of Hummingbird will come along for the ride <P>Remember, just because you aren't there yet does not mean you will NEVER be. And, I predict that when the feelings start to come back, they will pour in!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13<p>[This message has been edited by Faith Hope Love (edited January 12, 2000).]

Hum,<P>Yeah, I think you are nuts. <P>My H has never said anything like that before in his life. And he never will. And so what? I know in my heart that he loves me.<P>Other than that, I have nothing to add to FHL's words of wisdom (as usual).

Hi Hum,<P>Sorry you are down. I guess it wouldn't surprise you to know that I have pretty much the same line of thinking as you! <P>It's true that you are still in withdrawal, but I think there's also something else occuring, something that takes the place of withdrawal, but it almost as bad: Even after you get over the OP, there is the feeling of emptiness, and the feeling that there is something missing because even though you are over the OP, you remember what it was like and that it was something you don't have right now (in my case never had) with your spouse. Very sad feeling, that.<P>Brief comment on something FHL said:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Being in love with your H again won't just happen. It's not a passive process where one day you wake up and there you are. Love is action, love is work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, I agree with this... but also there is something spontaneous and natural about real love as well. It can't be manufactured (at least IMHO, although Harley would like us all to think so). I mean, how else can you explain the way Hum's husband felt when he watched her brushing her hair? His words : he felt his "heart shake". That comes from something that is not "work" or "action"...<P>--andy

I'm flattered that you credited me for that quote, but that is our friend Dazed.<P>And if you believe that love is a natural thing, then that will be true for you. <P>If you don't allow your mind to believe it, I think it is unlikely that you can work your way into that "in love" feeling. What you believe in this case is your personal truth. Doesn't mean you are right, but it may mean that is what you will experience.<P>If you can shift your belief, then you can probaby change your outcome.<P>So what about a cake in the oven. When you put in all the ingredients and pour it in the pan and put it in the oven, does it become a cake spontaneously or was it a result of what was put into it?<P>And airheart, I'm not baiting you because I simply don't know, but what exactly are you doing? Are you reading books or actively pushing the envelope?<P>This is not a moral comment. But another factor of your stuckedness (like my word?) may be that you are leaving divorce as an option or waiting for your wife to make the decision for you.<P>You know you have food to eat, a bed to sleep in, a child(ren) for you to love and build a loving world for and a wife who loves you and is not an ax murderer. But none of that is enough. You are holding out for more...and I think more is in your grasp. Maybe if you could say (and believe) I made my choices in life. They may not have been perfect, but they are mine. I will make them into the best life I possibly can. You may have to accept a few things, you may have to grieve a few losses, but maybe you could get off the fence.<P>In one of the few yelling arguements I ever had with H, I remember yelling. I am going to be happy in my life and in this marriage. I suggest you do the same! <P>Except for about 12 weeks, we have done just that. Have we settled? Sure in some ways. Everyone does. But no more so than if I had married anyone else on this earth...and probably a lot less.<P>I am not blowing smoke here. I have lived this and I KNOW it can be the truth...it is up to you to believe it and make it happen.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hum and airheart:<P>I'm going to do something I rarely do, because it's usually poppycock. But in this case, it's applicable.<P>Have either of you seen the movie ONE TRUE THING? It stars Meryl Streep, William Hurt and Renee Zellweger. It's from 1998, I believe. <P>Meryl Streep is a wife who's devoted her life to her family and is dying of cancer. Her daughter (Zellweger) is a career woman with this sort of roiling, free-floating dissatisfaction. <P>There's a wonderful speech that Streep's character gives her daughter letting her know that she's well aware of the father's affairs and other shortcomings. It has to do with CHOOSING to be happy. It is the best commentary on this topic that I've ever seen. And you know what? It's absolutely true.<P>Unfortunately, I can't find the screenplay anywhere online. But go out and rent this movie. Watch for the scene. You'll know when it happens.<P>You can spend your life bemoaning your spouse's shortcomings. Or, you can learn to treasure the traits he/she does have.<P>It's your decision.

God Bless

FHL: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And if you believe that love is a natural thing, then that will be true for you<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I didn't actually say that. I said I agree with you that it is "work". I believe that, yes, if you want to maintain love for someone, you cannot be passive. Absolutely. (BTW, notice the word "maintain" there). But there are also some things about it that aren't work, that are completely spontaneous. As I said, please explain to me Hum's husband's remarks about her brushing her hair. What's that? Spontaneous as all get out!<P>You're making it sound like those little spontaneous feelings of love don't really matter. Well they do.<P>Hey, I'm not sitting on my [censored] waiting around for love to come, believe me.<P>D&C : <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You can spend your life bemoaning your spouse's shortcomings. Or, you can learn to treasure the traits he/she does have<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't bemoan my spouse's shortcomings. Far as I can tell, she has damn few. <P>All I'm saying is -- you can't manufacture love out of thin air. There has to be SOMETHING there to build on. Something to "maintain"... FHL, even with your cake analogy, there are ingredients in the cake.<P>--andy

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..............<P>Airheart...love ya, but you are HOPELESS!<P>OK, not really, but in your need to be right about this, your own prize will be a "booby"...(as in prize, not the real thing)<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL, perhaps I am hopeless.<P>Let me ask you -- do you ever feel those little spontaneous things for your husband? Do you ever look at your husband and say "GAWD!! I'm glad I'm married to him! I just LOVE the way he does such-and-such!" And if not, do you feel disappointed, maybe a little?<P>Why is it wrong to want that? It's not unrealistic.<p>[This message has been edited by airheart (edited January 12, 2000).]

Of course I do <P>I love my H. He's got the cutest little crinkles around his eyes when he smiles that makes me flutter. I end my description at eye level.<P>But are these flutterings a result of actively putting good stuff in my brain and doint my best to weed out the nasties or the questionables?<P>And he could literally knock me off my feet with a little effort, and I sure wish he was a little more romantic sometimes.<P>And am I disappointed with a few things? Sure. Nothing is perfect.<P>I could dwell on his cluelessness. Honestly, he's the King of the Clueless. But we have a great life and we are great partners. <P>We may be argueing the chicken and the egg thing. So I'll think about it, but my brain is becoming numb.<P>You didn't address some of the other stuff in my post. What are you actively doing?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Andy, then why don't you just divorce your wife already and be done with it?<P>You don't love her. You've already said so. You rationalize it by saying that you've done everything you can and you can't get back those "in-love" feelings.<P>Your wife deserves to be loved. God knows she's put up with all this from you for a long time. She deserves better than this. All spouses deserve better than this. <P>You think this is some sort of passive process, that it just springs up spontaneously. You say your wife has no faults, yet you don't love her. Well, obviously there's SOMETHING.<P>And the question comes to my mind: Why did you marry her in the first place?<P>Do I feel the same about my H as I did 15 years ago? Hell no. My stomach doesn't quiver when I think about him. I'm not obsessed about him. I don't think about him 24 hours a day. I don't feel like all my nerve endings are singing all the time.<P>But so what? I go home at night, and he greets me at the door, and he's always happy to see me, and I look at him, and say, "Boy, I'm glad I've got him and I'm glad he and I are a team." <P>And when I climb into bed at night and tuck myself behind him and he lets out a satisfied grunt in his sleep, that's really nice.<P>So what do you want, anyway, Andy? You're not a teenager anymore. Deal with it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I love my H. He's got the cutest little crinkles around his eyes when he smiles that makes me flutter. I end my description at eye level.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ah... good! I'm glad to hear that. I was beginning to wonder, what with all your talk of "settling" and stuff, that you didn't feel that way. Now you know what I've <B>always</B> missed in my marriage.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We may be argueing the chicken and the egg thing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That thought crossed my mind. But here's how I think about it -- when you first met your husband, did you have to actively weed out all the bad stuff? Probably not. It's those feelings that you can build on nowadays when you choose to actively love your husband. Does that make sense?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You didn't address some of the other stuff in my post. What are you actively doing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sorry... I think I might've misunderstood that question in your original post. I thought you were accusing me of causing trouble... <P>You mean, what am I actively doing to fix my marriage? Depends on how depressed I am at the time. You know, I've always had the ability to weed out the "bad" stuff about my wife. I've always done that throughout our marriage.<P>In my day to day interactions with my wife, I try to initiate conversations, I listen to her when she talks about whatever bothers her. I try to be affectionate (this is sometimes a problem for me cuz I feel awkward, not because I don't like being affectionate, I love it. But because I'm not comfortable with the "act like it" philosophy). I try to be sensitive about my wife's feelings (not always successful here either, but I try). I try not to love-bust whenever I feel frustrated or angry (not always successful here either).<P>I've read books too. I read "After the Affair" and "His Needs Her Needs" and "Surviving An Affair". I'm about booked out. And I've gone to councelling too. Both by myself and joint with my wife.<P>And I really do appreciate my wife and her qualities. I don't know what else to tell you!<P>Is there anything else I missed from your other post?<P>--andy<BR>

D&C, it's simple. I want what you have.<P>And we were talking divorce a few weeks ago. We put it off 'til after the holidays, and haven't really talked about it since then. Yes indeedy -- my wife definitely deserves someone who loves her! I've said that all along. She deserves someone WAY better than me. I don't know what else to say.

Hey, when I met my H, I knew he was no Romeo...but I liked those crinkles and some other qualities...like he had no baggage and he shared my values and I had been burnt bad by someone who adored me, but could not control himself when he drank. So I guess you say I knew what I was doing and I did it anyway. So I certainly can't complain about what I knew when I married him. So I don't.<P>Anyway, got to go...I'll think some more. Hey those books are OK...but I got some better ones <P>Take care!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13